I need help with this... (Aggression)

No, there's no dog parks around here. There are sometimes some dogs at the people park out on the baseball fields sometimes. But I've taken Max out there several times, even while there are other dogs there, and he's always been absolutely fine. He wasn't on the same field with them though. And he whined and sat at the gate wanting me to let him go over there. He never growled or showed the least bit of aggression. He even sniffed a boxer that was on the other side of the fence. I don't think he was neutered, but I could be wrong. The only time he's ever shown "aggression" was when he was on leash and the other dogs were loose and ran up to him. Hmmmm.....

I think I'm catching on now. [] I guess I need to find a large unneutered male dog whose owner would keep him on a leash and let me walk by them for desensitization purposes. Fat chance of finding that around here unfortunately.

Sorry If this has already been suggested and I missed it ...

Hard feelings about irresponsible dog owners aside ... how hard would it be to introduce yourself to some of the off-leash dog owners and suggest some supervised dog introduction dates? Perhaps you could enlist these folks to be willing subjects in your socialization efforts, and give them a good model to follow, too.

I will probably ask the owner of the first dog that I talked about if he minds helping me out. Once they start enforcing the leash law, I doubt that he would mind since he will already have to have his dog on a leash. I've already met him before. He's an extremely nice guy.

belgmal girl,

About your dog breaking her prong: This is exactly WHY I double up on collars when I walk Ella. Even if I don't use a prong. I HATE HATE HATE using a prong because I believe I should be able to get Ella to not pull without a prong. But for now I use it occasionally because it's spring, the air is fresh and she wants to smell EVERYTHING. The distractions are fresh as well. So, I'm desensitizing her to her outside environment for a little while. When the prong is on, she doesn't pull. Unless she sees another dog, then she pulls no matter WHAT she's wearing. If she wears it, it's not so much so I can give her corrections while wearing it. I don't use it so much as a "correction" tool as I do for the fact that she simply doesn't pull when it's on. But I'm going to stop the use of it because she's relearning how to walk properly on lead again. UGH. I feel so dirty when I talk about using one on her. I advise others NOT to use them if at all possible.

Anyway, I double up on collars because I A.) don't trust the prong collar not to pop loose B.)I don't trust that she won't be able to back out of a regular collar. So...on walks she is ALWAYS double collared. Sometimes even double leashed.

I also carry Direct Stop.  I have seen times when I knew it was going to come in handy, but also times when I knew it wasn't going to do a bit of good.  You have 2 things that may work in your favor, one being Direct Stop, one being that it is a dog who is submissive to humans and a firm "back" will turn them the other way.

But if you have a dog coming at you that is intent on terrorizing your dog, (and you can't get away) there isn't anything that you can do but turn the leash loose, pick up the nearest thing that looks like a weapon and join in the fight.

Just because your dog doesn't react, you don't tense up, nor do you allow your dog to fixate and move him along....both you and your dog can do the exact right things...but  that doesn't mean the other dog will go it's merry way.

Dogs are attracted to movement.  When you and your dog are moving away.  They will follow, unless/until they find something more interesting to investigate or terrorize, or are scared off.

We had a confrontational big dog on our butts for about 15 to 20 minutes one day. I bounced logs off of his head and everything.  The only thing that kept him from attacking was he was assessing the situation to see if he could take both us.  About the time he was at the point of deciding he could, we were at a safer place and some guys came out and scared him off.  He knew he was too outnumbered.

ORIGINAL: nGoldenm

I will probably ask the owner of the first dog that I talked about if he minds helping me out. Once they start enforcing the leash law, I doubt that he would mind since he will already have to have his dog on a leash. I've already met him before. He's an extremely nice guy.

Holy CRAP, JM!

You got REAL lucky.

I'm learning to scan REAL well. With almost ALL of my senses. My ears move to every sound. It's weird. Things that don't even phase Ella will turn my head or move my eyes in its direction. I mean, so much as a LEAF blowing across the ground, I'm aware of it. Her backpack will be going on her for EVERY walk. She walks better with it on and she's less reactive. She still wants to sniff bushes and stuff, but she doesn't pull me. That stuff's good to work on her "leave it" command. Our walk was GOOD today. Not a dog in sight! But I had to take her walking at 530 am before the rest of the neighborhood was awake and putting their dogs out.
We worked on her training. If I'm EVER going to make her a therapy dog, she NEEDS exposure to things. But for now since we're in the beginning stages or getting her adjusted, I'm trying as little distractions as possible.

There was someone walking their dog yesterday when I was out with her. The dog was far away, but she still stopped to look and whine. But I knew she was still controllable. She's a freak.

Ok, I have a new question. Could this issue be territorial? Max marks like crazy around here, and I have seen the other two dogs marking around here as well. The first time Max met the other dogs, he sniffed them first before he got aggressive. Could he have recognized their scent as the dog(s) who had been "trespassing" in his territory?

I have considered the same.  If a dog is loose, of course it is marking...yours comes along and re-marks.  The dog sees (and smells) yours...confrontation time.

There is so much more going on in dog world that we don't understand.  It used to be so simple.

But getting back to dog basics, which we sometimes over look....mine is both territorial and protective. I believe these traits can lead to a dog reacting to another dog.

Heck...maybe it's just about a dog defending his terrority and protecting his person. Which in my area, is still acceptable (and expected) behavior from a dog.


I dunno...I stay in a state of confusion most of the time.  I have a conflict going on..."something is wrong with my dog/I am a bad person" versus "oh for petes sake..it's a dog doing nothing but being a dog"

ORIGINAL: nGoldenm

Ok, I have a new question. Could this issue be territorial? Max marks like crazy around here, and I have seen the other two dogs marking around here as well. The first time Max met the other dogs, he sniffed them first before he got aggressive. Could he have recognized their scent as the dog(s) who had been "trespassing" in his territory?

ORIGINAL: JM

I have considered the same. If a dog is loose, of course it is marking...yours comes along and re-marks. The dog sees (and smells) yours...confrontation time.

There is so much more going on in dog world that we don't understand. It used to be so simple.

But getting back to dog basics, which we sometimes over look....mine is both territorial and protective. I believe these traits can lead to a dog reacting to another dog.

Heck...maybe it's just about a dog defending his terrority and protecting his person. Which in my area, is still acceptable (and expected) behavior from a dog.


I dunno...I stay in a state of confusion most of the time. I have a conflict going on..."something is wrong with my dog/I am a bad person" versus "oh for petes sake..it's a dog doing nothing but being a dog"

Yeah, I wish I understood what was going on. If only he could talk. It'd help me out so much. If either Max or the other dog were the type to back down easily, I would almost just want them to get it over with already. [sm=lol.gif] Of course, I will never do that because neither one would back down and one of the two would get hurt pretty bad probably.

Well, I was out brushing Max today, and the dog and his owner came out. He came out there and called the dog back to him. Max of course was raising all kind of heck. I had him by his collar. The owner then grabbed his dog's collar, and this is the conversation that ensued.

Guy: If you let him go, do you think that he'll charge over here and try to attack?

Me: I have no clue what he will and won't do. (at this time, max is actually doing a play bow and barking at the other dog, not aggressively at all) Like right now, I think he just wants to play. But if he gets over there I have no clue what would happen.

Guy: Yeah, I think part of it is him trying to protect you and another part territorial. I can handle my dog. I'll hold him at the beginning. Let's try them and see what they'll do. I can handle mine if you can handle yours if something happens.

Me: All right. I'd rather them just get this over with.

So I then let Max go. He trotted over to them. Him and the other dog just stood there staring at each other. They did this for about a minute or so. It seemed incredibly long. Then they started sniffing each other. There was one growl from Max when the other dog started sniffing him. Then the guy said, "I'm fixing to let mine go. Let's see what they do." He let his dog go. They both walked in circles around each other, sniffing. Then his dog ran over to the nearest bush and marked it. Max was right on his tail the whole way. He growled right at first. Then he immediately marked the same bush. Then they had a peeing war for a couple minutes. Both of them ran around marking each other's marks. It was really quite funny. They were peeing on the same two spots over and over. [sm=lol.gif]

Then, I saw a really good thing. A play bow and bark from Max. The other dog returned the bow, and off they went. Running and playing and growling with each other. Totally friendly. They were the best of friends out there. They wore each other out. Then I called Max back to me, and he dropped everything and came running. [] Needless to say, I was extremely pleased. Then the guy's GF came up with her two labs, and they all played out in the field together. I was soooo proud of him.[] Now we don't have to worry as much about that other dog being out there. Woohoo! []

[] Roaring great news! []

I am so very happy for you! Sometimes ya just gotta suck it in and take a chance - glad your's came out so much above your expectations!

Ixa says "aaaooOOooo".

After what happened last night with that Rottweiler, this was absolutely exactly what I needed. Something to lift my spirits and make me feel real good. I'm still bubbling with pride. []

ORIGINAL: cakana

Well here goes a rant....people who walk their dogs off leash and allow them to approach dogs who are on leash, are totally clueless.

[sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif] - I couldn't agree more and unfortunately, I have 2 neighbors who think that leaving their dogs our front to run and play as they please, is their right.  [:@][:@][:@]...

Carrying Direct Stop is your right. []  Um, I wonder if it would do any good to put skunk smell in an aerosol can...[sm=devil.gif]

Peeing war. 
[sm=rotfl.gif]

I hope Max won.

ORIGINAL: JM

Peeing war.
[sm=rotfl.gif]

I hope Max won.

Oh don't worry. He swapped his tank to reserve. He didn't quit til he had covered up everything the other dog had done. And then threw in some a little higher up for good measure. I thought he was about to fall over his leg was so high. [sm=lol.gif] It was really funny. He was running right behind the other dog, barking at him all the while until the other dog moved so that Max could pee right there.