I need help with this... (Aggression)

Well no.  You should do desensitizing if possible.  But how easy is it to keep a loose dog from yours and at a comfortable distance?  Not so easy. A dog is a dog magnet. Maybe crate him up (as in car or truck) and allow him to observe loose dogs in this way.  I do this.

Maybe more obediance for self control (this I worked on also)  But personally, I feel like if you are not reading other handlers and keeping yours from situations that  can bring about trouble...you are heading nowhere but setback city.

Say for instance, you get Max exactly where he needs to be and you allow a loose dog to approach him..The dog snaps...Max snaps back.  Back to square one...any maybe more reactive than before.

Say for instance you see 2 teens with a large dog, the dog is on leash but pulling.  Max is cool, under control, on leash..  You both allow the approach, .the dog snaps, Max snaps back.  Now he is reactive toward dogs on leash.

ORIGINAL: nGoldenm

So what I'm getting from this is that I don't need to do anything about this? I mean other then avoiding encounters with these dogs.

That's gonna be really hard, now that its warm outside. There are dogs out at all hours of the day.

I also wanted to state to the OP: Never apologize to an off leash dog's owner when their dog comes up behaving rudely to your dog. YES, another dog greeting your dog up in your dog's face, IS RUDE.
I feel as though you apologizing to them admits some type of wrong action on your part, when your dog was most likely responding like a dog who doesn't want another dog to run up to him and get in his face.[]

I agree.  They should be apologizing for not having their dog under control.  If an owner cannot keep their dog from approaching yours, then they do not have control of that dog.

 Most people who walk without leash think they have control of the dog.  It doesn't go that far, it doesn't bite or act radical...but yet when it sees another dog, it runs right up to them.

 That is not having control.  Not on the part of the owner, nor self control on the part of the dog.

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

I also wanted to state to the OP: Never apologize to an off leash dog's owner when their dog comes up behaving rudely to your dog. YES, another dog greeting your dog up in your dog's face, IS RUDE.
I feel as though you apologizing to them admits some type of wrong action on your part, when your dog was most likely responding like a dog who doesn't want another dog to run up to him and get in his face.[]

EXACTLY, JM.
I get so frustrated when people THINK they have control over their dog, but honestly, they have NO clue how dogs work or how they communicate with eachother. My dog would be the anti-christs of dogs if she attacked an off leash dog that came up to us.
The ONLY way my dog finds greetings appropriate is if the dog comes up to her sideways and sniffs her sideways.
Of course since Ella is DA, the dog CANNOT make eye contact with her or look at her face. In fact, she prefers if the dog pays NO attention to her AT ALL and just goes about its own business.

belgmal_girl - Thank you for the post. It was very informative.

ORIGINAL: JM

Well no.  You should do desensitizing if possible.  But how easy is it to keep a loose dog from yours and at a comfortable distance?  Not so easy. A dog is a dog magnet. Maybe crate him up (as in car or truck) and allow him to observe loose dogs in this way.  I do this.

Maybe more obediance for self control (this I worked on also)  But personally, I feel like if you are not reading other handlers and keeping yours from situations that  can bring about trouble...you are heading nowhere but setback city.

I take him with me just about everywhere I go in my truck. His window is always down, and he actually saw the younger dog from the second incident yesterday from the back seat of my truck. I didn't realize that the dog was out there. They were behind a car where I could not see them until we drove by. Max's window was completely down and he very easily could have jumped out if he wanted. He didnt budge. We actually stopped and talked to them, because one of my friends and one of Max's dog friends were with them. Max stayed put and didn't make so much as a peep.

So given that I'm assuming his trigger is rude, unneutered male dogs. I'm also assuming that his tolerance threshold is MUCH lower for unneutered male dogs than it is for say female or smaller dogs. He puts up with endless rudeness from small dogs and about the same for female dogs.

And I am trying to keep him out of these situations if I can forsee one. Say, if I walk out my door and look over at the field that we normally go to and one of the dogs that he doesn't like is there, we don't go for a walk right then. We wait a little bit. And I try to read the owners, but there's only so much I can read about an off leash dog running toward us.


Off topic: I walked outside the door this morning to take Max out, and guess what was standing just outside my door (within 10 feet)? That dog aggressive rottweiler off leash with the owner nowhere in sight. [:@] I pulled Max back inside really quick. That's the last straw as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to demand that something be done about this. I'm tired of all these off leash dogs around here. I'm going to try and convince the owner to start construction on that fence he promised me. Then I'm going to ask that all dog's be required to be onleash unless they are in that area.

Hey, you know what you could do?  If you clicker train, when Max is around other dogs and he acts cool..c/t

When you are cruising with him and he looks at a loose dog..c/t.

Here is an article on clicking calming signals.

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002b/aggression.htm

 I dunno, but I am thinking alont the same lines as you, and have seriously considered the unaltered male thing in regards to my dog. I think that it his problem also.  Folks who will not neuter their male dog, most likely has an issue with leashing/confining them also.  Maybe it's a mindset.

I don't blame you for being angry about not even being able to take your dog out without running into a loose dog.

 Many times I have had to cut my dogs walk short, leave an area and go to a safer area just so theirs can run loose. And we have a leash law.

There is something very wrong with this.

ORIGINAL: JM

Hey, you know what you could do?  If you clicker train, when Max is around other dogs and he acts cool..c/t

When you are cruising with him and he looks at a loose dog..c/t.

Here is an article on clicking calming signals.

[linkhttp://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002b/aggression.htm]http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002b/aggression.htm[/link]

 I dunno, but I am thinking alont the same lines as you, and have seriously considered the unaltered male thing in regards to my dog. I think that it his problem also.  Folks who will not neuter their male dog, most likely has an issue with leashing/confining them also.  Maybe it's a mindset.

I don't blame you for being angry about not even being able to take your dog out without running into a loose dog.

Many times I have had to cut my dogs walk short, leave an area and go to a safer area just so theirs can run loose. And we have a leash law.

There is something very wrong with this.

Yeah, I agree. I think it is a mindset also. I have no problem with the off leash dogs that are under control. My friendwalks her dog off leash, but her dog is very calm and she has control of herself. And my friend can call her back at any time if she wants to. It's the ones who don't have complete control of their dogs that tick me off. They make everything very difficult for the rest of us who are trying to do right.

And thanks for that link. I'm gonna bookmark it and read it later. Don't really have time today.

I haven't read everything to thoroughly here.  But, in case it wasn't mentioned I'm readying Feisty Fido, Help for the Leash Aggressive Dog.  I'm finding it very helpful and it gives you clear things to do to improve the situation of running into other dogs.  It's a very easy read also and not very long.  Inexpensive too. 
Lori[]

You definitely need to work with your dog and try to manage as you work through this.  But I think the goal is to be able to walk your dog without the reactions you#%92re getting.  I would read the suggested reading and get a training plan in place and then start working Max.  I also think that an obedience class would be a wonderful way to help socialize.  Speak to the trainer first and tell them your situation.  My dog is a dog friendly dog but the thing I notice most is how he is so different and very obedient in training classes –there something about the classes that makes him feel good and proud.  Socializing in at a class will help to build his confidence as you begin to work with him around dogs in your neighborhood.
 
In your situation I believe its best to educate yourself (like you are by coming here) read some materials "understand" why your dog reacts like this and lean counter actions and training methods to help him BEFORE you actually start to implement anything.
 
Although it#%92s difficult I would also suggest that you try and not act nervous when these situations poop up.  If you are walking your dog and another is coming out of the next door house keep walking, don#%92t stop and let him fester on the situation.  If another dog is walking towards you turnaround or go to the other side of the street and keep him moving, calmly, don#%92t speak just forge forward.  Don#%92t let him get worked up if you can help it.  If he senses your tension it will escalate his fears.  Keep us posted as you work thru these issues and good luck.
 

ORIGINAL: willowchow

I haven't read everything to thoroughly here. But, in case it wasn't mentioned I'm readying Feisty Fido, Help for the Leash Aggressive Dog. I'm finding it very helpful and it gives you clear things to do to improve the situation of running into other dogs. It's a very easy read also and not very long. Inexpensive too.
Lori[]

Lori, I looked this book up on Amazon and I read some of the reviews.
What if your dog is just DA but dealing with that DA is most important when ON LEASH?
Ella is DA, but this mainly is going to affect us when she is on leash because that is when she is possibly exposed to other dogs on walks or if we encounter an off leash dog.
Is this book applicable in that area as well?
Just last night we had an off leash shih tzu charge at us. My boyfriend chased it home and then the owner came out and got the dog to come back into the house. This scares me because that dog would have been TOAST if it had successfully made it up to us.

Becca--It's all about positive ways to teach dogs how to politely walk past other dogs without causing a scene.  There are tips for preventing trouble, effective methods for handling emergency situations.---These words were taken from the back of the booklet. 

I'm really excited about reading it and implemeting the techniques.  It's exactly what Willow needs.  I just want her to be able to have someone pass us by and not embarrass me with her lunging and acting up.  I don't expect her to be friends just tolerant.

ORIGINAL: willowchow

Becca--It's all about positive ways to teach dogs how to politely walk past other dogs without causing a scene. There are tips for preventing trouble, effective methods for handling emergency situations.---These words were taken from the back of the booklet.

I'm really excited about reading it and implemeting the techniques. It's exactly what Willow needs. I just want her to be able to have someone pass us by and not embarrass me with her lunging and acting up. I don't expect her to be friends just tolerant.

My major concern is off leash dogs, so if that has emergency hints in it, I'll be buying it!
I don't expect Ella to ever seek out fun time with other dogs, but I want her to not kill an off leash dog that comes up to us.

Yup, this is just the book you want.  It's got tips on how to speak to the dog when another dog is approaching, how to get your dog to focus on you and not the oncoming dog,  how to do U-turns to get away from others, all kinds of incredibly helpful stuff for people like you and me.

I just wanted to add an update. I believe that I have successfully convinced my landlord that enforcing a leash law is in the best interest of everyone. Hopefully this will keep everyone safer. I should no longer have to worry about an off leash dog coming out while Max and I are out walking. I'm also trying to convince him to fence in a part of the field behind some of the buildings where we can take our dogs and have them off leash safely. At least this way, if I see one of the dogs that Max doesn't get along well with, I can always just go to another area without worrying about the dogs running up to me.

Good for you! I know how annoying rude dogs can be. We have a couple of rotts next door who are undertrained that I've known since they're gotten them as pups. They've always been off leash wit me. The neighbors just let them barrel out the door when they see I'm just lazing around, and let me say hi. I never have a problem with that, because I love them like my own, but we had a Belgian Malinois bitch Mo, who was nine and was a breeder since she was two. She HATE other female dogs, spayed or not. The oldest rott Piper (2) went up to me and was doing her whole butt-wiggle, I love you dance while I was petting her, when my sister came around from the back of the house. When Mo saw Piper, all hell was set loose. Mo actually broke free from the prong. I've never seen any dog do that, nor do I think that is possible. She actually bent the prongs inwards. I know it was put on properly, and it was a Sprenger or whatever they're called (the ones from germany) and she actually broke it! Anyways, she lunged for the rott, ripped half of her ear off, tore at her shoulder and punctured her lip before I could kick her outta the way (why do I ALWAYS have to be in the middle?). I felt so horrible, and I was absolutely hysterical, screaming and crying trying to explain to the neighbors why their dog was all bloody and screaming....luckily the ear was sewed back on, and everything is all better. We just had to put Mo down, because bending the prongs actaully pierced her throat into the trachea



Sad stories beside...


I think if you start using a strong, daily dosage of desensitzing, you should be able to get Max's sorry butt whooped into shape real soon[] Is there any dog parks near you? If so, you could probably desensitize by walking around the perimeter, then gradually by leashed dogs. Then, you can take a big plunge by getting him a muzzle and letting him go inside. That way they can ****hopefully**** play. I don't mean now, but when he can walk past dogs w/o making a scene. The muzzle is only a precautionary, because usually a leash aggressive dog isn't aggressive off of the leash because they know they can escape whatever's making him scared. If this isn't the case, then it's better to be safe, then charges on you because max attacked some poor dog.