I went to a Cesar Millan seminar today.

One of the things I don't like about "adopting" a "training philosophy" or "method label". Is that in most cases you become automatically part of a cult. Koeheler type trainers wonder "why would I lure the dog into a down if i can simply shove his shoulders?", "All possitive trainers" ask themselves and other trainers "if the dog is bitting your hand why would you correct it instead of ignoring it?". Adopting a label in most cases is the fastest way to become closed minded. The truth is that no one method works in all dogs the same, sure, a compulsion based trainer will tell you that he/she can train ANY dog, and it may be true, but at what expense?. On the other hand, when dealing with aggression we've all heard the stories of "all possitive" trainers that will recommend euthanasia because the dog is "too far gone", before even thinking about using some form of +P, because that would be plain cruel.


Long story short, we're all entitled to our opinions, the purpose of these forums is to share them. The fact that every body is here sharing means that we actually CARE for our dogs and want to improve ourselves as dog owners. What REALLY gets to me is when someone starts questioning the my relationship with my dog and labeling me as cruel and inhuman based on the simple fact that I keep an open mind. When training my dog I do it with the best learning experience I can give him in mind, I use +P as a last resort if ever. At the end of the day I want a dog that will be happy. Just food for thought, I have no kids so i'm stepping into unchartered waters and the odds of putting my foot in my mouth are pretty high. But, of those of you who have kids, does an "all possitive" method work any better than an "all negative"?. There has to be a balance, and where that balance is depends on the individual.

eley,
 
You are the smartest puppy on this forum.  Amen, you are exactly correct and spot on!!!!
 
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ORIGINAL: ron2

He is such a nut, if he is unsure about a behavior that I want, he will begin giving me all the other behaviors he knows

Shadow has done that. Once, at Canine Comissary, I was getting him some fresh made treats. While waiting in line, he was trying every obedience trick he knew, trying to figure out which one was going to get him that treat.

 
Lol, my male Sibe does this, so cute!  And the female just watches him and then she starts to do it....

whatever.......

i know what works with my dogs and what doesnt. does that make me part of a closed minded cult?

FWIW: i have wasted my money on training class that used corrections. didnt work AT ALL. i think amelia actually regressed with the training methods that instructor was using. at the time i didnt know there was anything else at the time. so i gave up on training her, until i found a clicker training teacher. so maybe that does make me close minded to training methods that i know dont work for us, but i have never shaved my head and hung out at the airport with a tambourine for any training methods. never partaken in any kool-aid parties either.

no, what makes you (and by you and don't mean YOU in particular) closed minded is judging everyone else that doesn't use the same methods YOU use.

There must be something about the guy, Cesar Milan, because there is never a thread that doesn't look like this one on a dog forum!  It is rather odd, although kind of funny2.
 
One of these days I'll have to take a gander at him.  What channel is he on, when and what times?

i reread my posts and i dont see where i passed any judgement on anyone. 

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000


so says the leash pop trainers.

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

so negative reinforcement is to either physically or mentally intimidate your dog to the point that he is trying to please you so that the abuse doesnt continue?

i guess that works for cold hearted people. i dont think i could look my dog in the eye, ask him to "sit" or whatever, and if he refused unleash some form of abuse on him. it isnt so important to me that i destroy our bond just so he will conform to my wishes. [sm=2cents.gif]

Those two sounded pretty judgemental to me. You make it sound like anyone who does use a correction is basically abusing the dog.

the first quote is basically the way it was explained to me by the leash pop trainer we tried with amelia. our clicker trainer explained it differently. i dont call that judgement.

read the second one however you will. i was trying to get the meaning of how negative reinforcement was being explained.
so far you have judged me as a closed minded cult member. i asked a few questions that you seemingly took offense to and was judged as such. whatever.....[8|]

ok....i guess it was the tone of your questions and the terms like "cold hearted", "intimidate" and " abuse" that made me think you were being judgemental, I stand corrected.

whatever......[8|]

Yet again another CM thread gone personal.
 
Get back on track or this thread will be closed along with the many others

I am not going to perpetuate this thread any longer but one last thought.
 
I think the important point here is that we should choose what we find effective and what makes sense for "us" and our "dog" and implement our decisions in a humane and educated manner.  There is no right or wrong, good or bad – for this subject providing we all remember kindness, morality and compassion is first and foremost.
 
Congratulation to everyone who has had success in training their dogs, it is lacking for so many and the dog.  As we know and understand a well-behaved, obedience trained dog is a pleasure to own because he can go virtually anywhere without being a risk or nuisance to others. And don't we all want a dog who exhibits appropriate behavior in a crowd, good manners when we have guests in our home, is reliable around children, and who doesn't threaten other dogs or passers-by?

The bottom line is that dog obedience training truly benefits everyone.

 

It sure helps to have a well behaved pup or two.  I like to think of my training of my dogs akindred to how I train my children.  Seems like so much of what is said and how it is delivered in teaching/training makes sense in both cases.
 
I don't want my children/or dogs to feel afraid of making mistakes, but to know what to do, confidently.  Some may think that I am too easy in my methods, but guess what I have well- adjusted kids and dogs and a cat...Although the 18 yr old cat is grumpy.[]
 
Puppies take time, and there is no such thing as a quick fix for anything.  If you want excellent results, you gotta love what you do I think.
 
I still do not know what Cesar Milan is really.  I would like to know when he is on tv, what channel and the time if anyone has that?

ORIGINAL: dogslife
I would like to know when he is on tv, what channel and the time if anyone has that?

national geographic channel. i think the show is on fridays at 8 pm (maybe 9 pm). they show the reruns randomly as well.