I went to a Cesar Millan seminar today.

I watched one of his episodes on NGC this morning and used one of his techniques. One case involved a shih Tzu that couldn't stand to be walked with a leash. But the owners wanted to have her on a leash in public, as she will go to any friendly person, regardless of traffic. So, he took the dog outside with his regular slipknotted leash and waited until the dog was comfortable and put that leash on. Then, he set the dog down and waited for her to feel comfortable about her surroundings. As he put it, she had to get used to this on her own terms. Eventually, he got her walking. No yank and crank. Her owners had already tried to the brute force method. So, CM allowed the dog space and time to acclimate to the leash.

I did something similar. The last few weekends I've had off and take Shadow to Petco. It's the best I can do at the moment for socialization and public obedience. And he's been sometimes obstinant about not wanting to go in. He would be nervous. Other times, he would balk. One day, just listening to him, we couldn't get closer than 30 feet from the door. We used to go in there once a week. Then I was busying working 7 days a week sometimes 10 hours a day. Anyway, so we took plenty of time. Walk around the huge parking lot, even though he had a walk this morning. We were on our way back to the store when a lady got out of a car with a Beagle and a Husky/GSD mix. I halted us. Well, that gave Shadow some interest. So, we followed them at a distance. He would sniff where they have been. So, I get him across the drive to the front of the store and get him to sit. And relax. Then, I get him into the store with no hesitation on his part. Near the front, they were having a sign-up to win a free bag of the food I feed him. The dogs ahead of us were in the grooming salon at the front. The lady opened the door and her dogs piled out and everyone was sniffing everyone. I commanded Shadow to sit and he did. And he stayed that way as they walked on. I finished filling out the form and then took him for a walk around the store, not buying anything. Out we went and back home. Success in small steps. And maybe he just needs more walking before going in to burn off some more energy. And I was inspired to this approach by watching Cesar Milan this morning.

I think it's great that people can take those subtle cues from CM.    And Ron, I'm glad you finally got Shadow to go inside Petco again!  Good boy! 

If you are in to going to dog seminars, I hope that when Kathy Sdao comes to your area you'll check her out, too.  It's nice to see that you have an interest sufficient to pay some bucks to see someone in person, but I really think you would be impressed by someone who understands canine learning as well as Kathy, and who can explain it and back it up with science.

I'd just like to stress that science isn't everything. A good dog trainer/behaviourist will have a basis in science, but backed up with a solid history of good old fashioned experience, which, incidentally, I'm sure Kathy has. Technically, although I've only got a Bachelor so far and no PhD, I could say I was a behaviourist. I have a degree majoring in ecology and animal behaviour. That sets me up with a good understanding of how behaviours in animals might come about, and, if I were really creative, ideas about how to change or manipulate those behaviours. However, I've owned one dog in my short life and haven't had any troubles with her whatsoever. I wouldn't know where to begin with a lot of problems. I've been around dogs most of my life, so I at least have some idea of reading dog language, but I've just recently got into rabbits and I have to say for the most part they are a complete mystery to me. I don't have any experience with them, so I'm at a severe disadvantage right from the word go.

So, just as a cautionary note, a degree is one thing, a PhD is better, but as far as I'm concerned, nothing beats a number of years of experience. I know form personal experience that they can generally only teach you theory in school. Interpreting behaviour is something you learn from a LOT of experience, especially with something as complex as a domestic dog.

 

I found him to be funny, wise, insightful, generous, concerned, non-judgemental. This man loves dogs! He truly wants what is best for the dog.

Although I don't agree w/most of CM's techniques, I do agree w/ this. 
 
 
Why did that come out like that?

ORIGINAL: corvus
So, just as a cautionary note, a degree is one thing, a PhD is better, but as far as I'm concerned, nothing beats a number of years of experience. I know form personal experience that they can generally only teach you theory in school. Interpreting behaviour is something you learn from a LOT of experience, especially with something as complex as a domestic dog.

 
I agree.  I don't understand why people think a piece of paper they own makes them better than anyone else.  Bill Gates has no college degree and is the richest man in the world.  There are countless other examples of  very successful people who never graduated from college.   

I am beyond done with the CM debate but I have to pipe in that it's very insulting to the people who have worked hard to earn a college degree to say that it's just a piece of paper. They don't hand those things out at the drive thru you know.

It depends on which piece of paper, too. The state of Texas has twice had a time window wherein people could journeyman licenses if they could get a master to certify that they had at least 6 years experience, without taking the test.
 
I took tests for my licenses and earned those before the state ever came out with a state license. I took the tests the state now uses for its standard. What does it mean for me when others can get the license without taking the test? I don't know yet. I think it is a combination of experience and credentials. If I were to need surgery, I'd rather have "Hawkeye" Pierce than a teaching professor who's spent more time talking about it than doing it, even though the professor has more creds. Why? Because "Hawkeye" has done it under fire in the worst of conditions and doesn't lose his cool or slip up. Years of experience do have value. So do credentials and years of study.

I've always wanted to go see one of CMs seminars, I hope he does one in my area in CT soon,  it sounds great.

I'd love to see one of Suzanne Clothier's seminars.

She has a good website, too. Flyingdogpress.
 

I agree, jones.  I also agree that some folks spend a lot of money getting credentials, but with no hands on dog experience, they flounder when the tough cases come along.  That's why a combination of education and experience is so valuable.
Kathy Sdao does have that, as do many other trainers and behaviorists. 
I am also so done with CM threads, but in my view, he lacks the educational piece that would tell him it isn't ALL about pack status.
If he had the education that some of these other people have, he would not have made the error that got him the bite from the frightened Viszla.  So, even though he has been successful with some dogs, with others he has been an abject failure, and by doing something that could cause the dog harm, or be a negative learning experience.  I would have no problem with an occasional gaffe if he were a novice trainer - but I certainly do have issues with it when he is being hyped as an "expert" on national television and people are adopting the methods they see him use because he seems credible due to the exposure on a respected network.  

I would be very interested in attending other seminars.  I think there are many many people much more knowledgeable than myself.  When we first brought Baily home, I went to the library and got every book and video I could.  Everybody has something to offer. 
 
As far as "expert" is concerned...how is that defined???  A degree does indicate much more than a "slip of paper".  A degree is the reward of a lot of hard work.  However, a degree does not guarantee maximum proficency in that area.    I can memorize medical terms, but that doesn't make me a doctor.  I am speaking generally here, not just about dog training.  There are so many "experts" in the world...I end up not putting much stock in that term....especially when used in advertising...until I get more involved. 

ORIGINAL: PurplePets22
As far as "expert" is concerned...how is that defined???  A degree does indicate much more than a "slip of paper".  A degree is the reward of a lot of hard work.  However, a degree does not guarantee maximum proficency in that area.    I can memorize medical terms, but that doesn't make me a doctor.  I am speaking generally here, not just about dog training.  There are so many "experts" in the world...I end up not putting much stock in that term....especially when used in advertising...until I get more involved. 

I quite agree. I certainly worked very hard for my little slip of paper and I've never been so proud of myself as when it was given to me. By no means did I mean to belittle a tertiary education. Just to caution that theory isn't everything. I found that animal behaviour theory was easy enough, but being out in the field was a totally different ball game. It took me a number of breeding seasons to get good at finding bird nests, and that I now have a little light bulb in my head that lights up whenever I hear or see birds doing something that suggests where they're at in the breeding cycle is due almost entirely to field experience and has very little to do with my slip of paper that I am so very proud of. I do believe that you can't trust an 'expert' with money in their pocket. People are corruptible and if advertisers can't get one expert to agree with them, they keep looking until they find one that will agree for them for the right price. It pays to do a lot of your own research and discover for yourself what the prevailing opinion is and what makes the most sense to you.