The Dog Whisperer??

ps:  your dog is beautiful.  Keep with him, try to treat him too.  When he walks with you.  You can go to the training section and look up some of the clicker training threads too.  Clicker training works well for teaching puppys commands.
 
Keep us posted.

well, so far, so good.

i changed plans as i went....

had mandi (the big female in the picture above) connected to her leash but she was rather in an excited state of mind. connected jasper (the male puppy) to the least network but he was going under her legs and knotting up the leashes... so within 30 seconds, i decided that there was just to much distraction.
(this is in my back yard)


so i put mandi back into the house and got jasper on his lerash. he froze of course, and i just decided to walk forwards anyways. he sprung forward but was sorta all over the place fighting it so i stopped. calmed him down, and then repeated it. the second time, he would walk (and sputter/stop/walk again) with me (i was walking at a brisk pace) and occasionally he would try to pull out... but i ended up running 4 complete circles around the perimiter of my back yard with him. that's a good 1'st step.

i think the thing to do is just walk briskly forward and the dog's got no choice but to surrender. he did good.

i'm gonna try a short sidewalk walk next. if he can do 100 yards to and fro, that would be an awesome 2'cd step.

Leash training a puppy is totally different than anything CM might do with an adult dog.

has c.m. ever had a puppy on his show yet?

a few nights ago, i decided to get all 3 of our dogs to eat meals in the same general area... each one seperated by perhaps 6-8 feet. jasper(the puppy) of course wanted to dive into their food bowls while they were eating.

what i did first was this - isolate our big dogs by leaving them outside.

i put all 3 bowls down on the floor and then let jasper in.

he wanted to go for the adult dog bowls first but i step in and blocked him by positioning my body between him and the bowls that were off limits. this went on for about 5 minutes before he seemed to have it figured out that i was not going to let him near.

now i picked up all 3 bowls.

then i let the adults in and put all of the bowls down in their respective places. the pup left the adult dogs alone. occasioannly, i would nudge him out of the way but it went well.

what i did initially is what c.m. does all the time - claim ownership. it works - even with puppies - but i am still present at feeding time just in case he slips and tries to get his head next to their heads while they're eating.

so far, 3 successful meals together.


so maybe SOME of the c.m techniques can be applied to pups. they are just as much pack animals as the adults are and are in a state of learning what works and what doesn't work at a very fast tate.


we also give our dogs biscuits in the morning. puppy boy tried to steal one out of mandi's mouth and off the floor right in front of her when we first got him. she snarled (i did not correct her for this) and it was not long that he learned quite rapidly not to try to snatch food.

Okay.... i took jasper out in the front yard for his first walk out of the front yard on the sidewalk. he was a little hesistant at first and pulled back several times but i kept moving forward and he would quickly 'give in' and come up to my side. we went through our front gate and then down the sidewalk. there were some other people out for a walk with their kid in a wagon and we breezed right past them.

we went about 200 yards or so nering the intersection corner where another car had pulled up to stop and he wasn't too sure about that. we stopped there and i rewarded him with a small nibble of chicken that i pulled off tonights leftovers. then we proceeded back to the house. someone still had their 4'th of july fglag stuck in the ground next to the sidewalk and that caught him off guard - but we kept moving forward at a brisk pace and that was that

a tremendous success for his first 'out of his territory' walk.

my method was to just pretty much take control and move forward to keep his attention going forward with me. it works

we're gonna reperat this every evening and he should have it down pat in a few more sessions - eventually phasing in one and then both of our other dogs

ORIGINAL: Stacita

DH (who is not a dog trainer) once helped a woman whose dog was afraid of men. The dog hadn't been in the same room as a man for years. He was also a large dog and there was some concern that if pressured he might bite. What DH suggested she do was fast the dog for 24 hours then he showed up with a big bag of yummy stuff. He just sat in a chair in the back yard tossing treats closer and closer to him, but saving the big yummy treat until the dog actually took it from his hand. It took a long time but the dog eventually did. After a couple of sessions of this the dog was coming straight up for his meal and didn't need to be fasted first. Later the dog was able to do this with other men and eventually became OK with most men.

It seems that this would be less pressure on the dog than running him down.

 
Well CM charges more than $350 an hour, i think that other technique save the owners a lot of money []
 
Regardless of the time, i think both techniques are fine, by following the dog around i dont think that makes the dog have a trauma, the dog on the tv episode was confused because CM didnt back away like everybody else did, CM was sure to let the dog know that he was not following him in an aggressive way, since the dog cant see the future and while he realizes whats happening then of course he will rather to be the one stepping back
 
If you saw the episode you would see exactly how he follows the dog around, by just reading it in a forum you could have the wrong idea

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

mudpuppys comments on horses and rashid made me recall watching an episode of cm where he basically chased a dog round the owners garden until it was tired and allowed him to approach and attach the lead. Comments?


Well dogs dont have a remote control, he cant help the dog from far away , the dog might be afraid because CM didnt step back as other people did in the past but CM showed that he was not there to hurt him but to help him with a calm approach after the dog got tired

 
running an animal into exhaustion is a "calming" technique????   "Subdued" and "calm" are not the same. 
 
So any training approach is ok as long as it is delivered calmly? 
 
 I shouldn't get upset if I see a professional trainer calmly beating the living daylights out of a horse, just doing his job, to correct the horse?

So any training approach is ok as long as it is delivered calmly?

I shouldn't get upset if I see a professional trainer calmly beating the living daylights out of a horse, just doing his job, to correct the horse?

 
whoaaaaaa
 
where did this one come from?
nothing has been said about beating the living daylights out of animals, have they?
 
if humans could only be as calm and assertive as this guy...

ORIGINAL: lostcoyote

So any training approach is ok as long as it is delivered calmly?

I shouldn't get upset if I see a professional trainer calmly beating the living daylights out of a horse, just doing his job, to correct the horse?

whoaaaaaa

where did this one come from?
nothing has been said about beating the living daylights out of animals, have they?

Welcome lostcoyote! []

You are participating in a thread in an area of the board which is open for all comments regarding Cesar (within the confines of the board rules).

We have a special forum at the bottom of this section titled "CM Philosophies and Discussions".
 
This is a special area of the board for those who enjoy Cesar and wish to discuss all things Cesar, without heated debate (see the rules at the top of the CM section). []

Check it out! You can even open your very own thread to discuss your daily progress and specific issues with your dogs.

I'm glad you could join us! []

"Subdued" and "calm" are not the same.

Neither are "tired" or "stressed" and "calm".  Especially when you are dealing with an older dog that has not had a lot of recent exercise, the first place to go is the vet, to make sure the dog can handle what you want to do (for the lurkers who suddenly think it's fine to put that backpack on the dog filled with bottled water - equivalent to making a sixty year old climb a flight of stairs carrying a bowling ball or two, perhaps).

sure, i can oblige, but i was wondering what this perceptual statement had to do with ceasar?

"I shouldn't get upset if I see a professional trainer calmly beating the living daylights out of a horse, just doing his job, to correct the horse?"


i was wondering where that came from? it certainly is not part of "ceasars way"

calm assertion is just that - being the alpha... but nowhere in animal society (except human & monkey (and ape) societies) will you find any alpha "beating the daylights" out of anything within their own pack.

some of ceasars techniques may be regarded by some folks as inhumane - but they are not. anyone postulating so, i would simply refer to a video called "living with wolves" to see for themselves what an alpha role is.

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

Was that the episode that featured a white (lab?shepherd) that belonged to a woman in a wheelchair and her 2 sons, or am I mixing episodes?

The scene in the yard reminded me of how handlers approach and capture feral animals. He kept limiting where the dog could go, till the dog submitted to capture. As I recall they ended up in a trashy side yard full of debris [:'(].

 
No that was not the episode. 
 
CM did explain what he was doing and while I do not remember the exact wording he di dexplain that part of the technique was to tire the dog first.  He was not just trying to make the dog submit to capture.  He was deliberately keeping the dog on the move, using a long object (possibly a broom) as an extension of himself and movin g towards the dog to make the dog move again and again.  At the end of this part of the session he explained that now the dog was tired, but he (CM) was not.
 
I wish I could remember the name of the dog.... I think it was pale, it was female and it was one of two dogs belonging to that owner.  I think they were crossbreeds.  The other was brown and whiteI am sorry I cannot remember more.  I did feel when watching this that this technique caused undue stress to the dog.  This was one of the moments when I did not enjoy CMs show.
 
In any case, CM is not there to "capture" the animal.  IMO his job is to first gain the animal's trust and respect and I believe that he should do this by encouraging the animal to approach of its own free will.  This is purely my opinion mind.... and wth do I know.
 
I think I understand what mudpuppy is saying and if I have understood correctly then I agree.  MP is not suggesting that ANYONE beats the animals in their care.  I believe that what they are trying to say is, just because you do a practise calmly does not make it a good practise!  Lots of practises can be carried out calmly and still be wrong.  Beating an animal would be one example.  "running an animal down" would (IMO) be another.  For someone who did not know any better, or purely for purposes of containing the animal then fair enough, but CM is no novice at dog handling and I think he should have had a better trick up his sleeve.  Further, his purpose was not to simply catch and contain the dog a la AC.  He was trying to rehabilitate it.  Different kettle of fish entirely.  If an animal needs to be caught, then you use the quickest, most humane method you can.  If an animal needs to be rehabbed, speed should not, under normal circumstances, be at the top of the list of priorities. 
 
I only meant to clarify and it became a novel.   Sorry.

Different kettle of fish entirely. If an animal needs to be caught, then you use the quickest, most humane method you can. If an animal needs to be rehabbed, speed should not, under normal circumstances, be at the top of the list of priorities.

 
The clarity of that statement is razor sharp, to me. AC has to contain the animal quickly and if luring with treats didn't work, then they would use a catch pole or net or whatever physical device. But true rehab is to get the dog to trust humans, which doesn't happen as fast as some would like. OTOH, it didn't take Shadow very much time to figure out what click means. But regardless of the method, if the dog doesn't trust the human, it's not coming near. Unless you wear it down to exhaustion, which doesn't necessarily get rid of stress. And some dogs, you can't wear down so easily. BIL has a Blue Merle Aussie, less than a year old and it takes his 7-year-old son an hour or so in the humid heat of Louisiana to wear her down.

IMO his job is to first gain the animal's trust and respect and I believe that he should do this by encouraging the animal to approach of its own free will.

 
I didn't see the show, but would not personally work with a trainer/behavioralist that didn't follow these thoughts.
 
I've had a tired, stressed dog. In one of my attempts to de-stress Floyd at the vet's I took him out for a long ball chasing session immediately before going into the office. The net effect was that he was still stressed and that he had a mildly elevated tempetature from his physical exertion, requiring him to go back the next day to get a proper reading. [&:]

personaly i love cesear
I've read his book and have trained 3 dogs 2 with issues using the alfa roll and the sound "schhh". one must be the pack leader to gain the respect of their dog. to me his training is not silly at all , he is the real deal
read his book ceaser's way to learn more

As far as "wearing out" a horse as a training method, that's a misconception. Round pen training (when done right - there are bad trainers) is based on allowing the horse choices. Instead of tying him up and forcing him, they let the horse decide. Does he want to run? Sure he can do that. BUT he will be running at a speed that the trainer decides. The trainer does not touch or hit the horse, just swing a lead rope or stand close enough to make the horse uncomfortable. If the horse offers in the slightest indication of to coming to the trainer - an ear flick or look - the trainer removes the pressure by stepping away. Horse learns that going to the trainer is easier than running away. Trainer shows by stepping away that choosing to be with him is safe. It's not supposed to be about chasing a horse down until it's physically exhausted. If the horse is getting exhausted then he needs a break.

I'll have to watch that CM chase episode again to see if that is any way similar to the way he works with dogs.