The Dog Whisperer??

Brandy I would suggest you do a search on idog using Cesar Milian and you will get your answers on others views of the subject.  There are many on idog who are left wing and right wing and in-between so you'll find everything from "I hate him” to "I love him” and many, like me who find a happy medium.

Personally I like Cesar and don't think he hurts dogs ever.  I find with my own dog that stopping "bad behaviors” requires a more CM approach and teaching new behaviors I can find success with more purely positive approaches.
 
I've been watching the marathon too, I always enjoy them!  How about the three legged dog episode?

Wow I found so many responses on this - very interesting to see why some like him & some don't.
 
I saw the previews for the 3 legged dog, but missed it.  How about the aggresive daschund who was protective of it's owner[]

I enjoy what I've seen of the show, in terms of entertainment.  But alpha rolls are the dumbest things since ... something really dumb! 

I'm not at all opposed to being firm with dogs, or to the judicious and restrained use of corrections.  Milan, however, takes things to a silly level that is potentially *really* dangerous. 

I am bothered by the fact that a lot of people are going to see his show and try his techniques.  Oops!  Keep a cell phone nearby, for those calls to 911. 

Good for you for investigating both sides of the question.  Having read both his book and Jean Donaldson's, I am more impressed with Donaldson than Millan.  I am one of those who believe that you start with the most humane approach you can, and that most dogs can be trained using positive methods.  Positive does not mean permissive, and does not mean that the dog never incurs a penalty.  However, the handler needs to be certain that the dog understands what has been taught before issuing such a penalty - dogs understand behavior that is "fair", but that's from their perspective, not ours.  It takes many more repetitions of a behavior before the dog has been proofed, then the trainer must "take it on the road" and proof the behavior in ever increasingly distracting settings.  I want a dog that is confident that I am neither unpredictable nor scary, and who seeks me out for guidance when he is confused or frightened himself.   JMHO, I'm a trainer and, while I think there are some things Cesar does well, I'm not really a fan.  

I do like how he emphasizes being the leader of the pack & it seems a lot of his cases he has to train the human more than the dog!

I agree with training the people-that is the case more often than not. 

Leading the pack though, isn't about being in front, or behind or to the side during a walk.  Leading a pack is about controlling resources and disbursing those resources at appropriate times, creating routines that are followed, being consistent as to which behaviors are allowed or disallowed.  Being a pack leader means having a dog or dogs that will follow because they trust.and depend upon that leader.

I'm not exactly a fan but I do appreciate the fact that Cesar has brought the idea of treating a dog like a dog rather than like a furry human into the limelight.

I think it's good to explore all options.  I am reading Karen Pryor's book and I just ordered Culture Clash and The Other End of the Leash.  A few months back, I downloaded the first two seasons of Cesar Millan and watched them all.  I learned some very valuable lessons, mainly the importance of timing when issuing corrections and reward, and how your presence, tone of voice, and attitude project to the dog and how the dog interprets it.  I don't really agree with his actual methods for training or some parts of his concept of dog psychology, but I appreciate that he doesn't back down from any challenge and that he is very blunt and honest with the owners.  In a lot of the episodes, I would have explained it to the owner the same way, just used different techniques for the actual training.  I also watch Victoria Stilwell and I actually like her a lot better and if I got to chose one "celebrity" trainer to work with, I'd chose Victoria.

I'm glad this topic was brought up,as i was going to ask the same things.

I've never actually watched a Milan show from start to finish,until recently.

TBH i had made my mind up about him purely from what i had read here and on other sites,most of which was negative.

Of the snippets i have watched a couple of things have stood out,and that is that he uses the words dominant and submissive Alot.I have yet to see this alpha roll MANeuver,but i think i would cringe and not be able to watch it anyway.. And anyone who who labels himself a "dog whisperer" or "dog listener" or whatever puts me off straight away!.

One positive i have noticed is that he is big on exercise,and who can argue with that?? He knows ALL dogs need to get out every single day and be properly exercised!

Yeah, good for you for looking at CM as part of a whole world of techniques and trainers.

I agree with others that he has done good things for dogs, like emphasize that dogs are not people, and that people are responsible for their dogs.

But I think that he's more important as an entertainer than as an example. His shows are edited and the issues are chosen for maximum entertainment effect, and he has a disclaimer expressly asking people not to do what he is doing.

One of the funnier things to me is the idea of being the "pack leader."  Um, my dog isn't stupid and I'm pretty sure she knows I'm not a dog. [sm=lol.gif]  I'm in charge, and she acknowledges it, but neither of us have any illusions that I'm an alpha dog.

Humans and dogs have been co-evolving for thousands of years.  I think we do just fine as working pairs, and not pseudo dog packs.   Besides, I have no desire to sniff her butt. 

Of the snippets i have watched a couple of things have stood out,and that is that he uses the words dominant and submissive Alot.I have yet to see this alpha roll MANeuver,but i think i would cringe and not be able to watch it anyway.. And anyone who who labels himself a "dog whisperer" or "dog listener" or whatever puts me off straight away!.

Yeah for all the "alpha roll" controversy he generates, he really doesn't do it that often.  Usually, he's pointing and "ssst!"-ing at a dog and it just lays down out of submission (fear?), he's not actually pinning the dog or pushing it down (I'm not defending or justifying the former though). 

There are two episodes where my discomfort level shot through the roof though and that was the one with the Jindo (he had the dog muzzled and was using a lot of force trying to pin the dog) and another episode where I don't remember the exact dog, but it was a small dog and it made me uncomfortable b/c he actually lifted the dog, flipped it over, and set it down on it's back (imagine how that would look if someone was doing it to a German Shepherd - picking it up, flipping it over, and pushing it down!).

Yeah for all the "alpha roll" controversy he generates, he really doesn't do it that often.

 
If he just did it one time is it still ok?  It is like when you see a mother slapping her child at a store...but she just did it one time in public!  Is that ok?  No.

I'm afraid that just about the only thing I agree with him about is that dogs need more exercise than a lot of them get.  I have a real problem with all his insistence on being the "alpha".  I've heard too many people wanting to know how they can teach their 8 week old puppy who's "boss".  To me, that's frightening.
 
Granted, I've never owned any of the hard breeds, so I prefer and only need softer training methods.  The trainers I truly respect and admire are Suzanne Clothier, Karen Pryor and Tamar Geller.  My dogs, indeed almost any sight hound, would shut down with any harsh training methods.  Besides, I enjoy my dogs and my relationship with them - trust, respect, love - no reason to ruin it.

If he just did it one time is it still ok? It is like when you see a mother slapping her child at a store...but she just did it one time in public! Is that ok? No.

Um, my post stated very clearly that I am not comfortable with alpha rolls and I was not justifying his methods (the collar pops and pointing/hissing at a dog to get it to submit).

I'm not defending or justifying....

So....you're preaching to the choir.

ORIGINAL: brandy76

But is this the right way.  I read the book "Culture Clash" (among others) which strongly disagrees with physical correction.  What are your thoughts?

 
Which flavor is better? Chocolate or Vanilla?
 
Yeap, you cant help stupid people for doing it wrong.
 
I hate war but i dont blame China for promoting  the gunpowder  []