GREAT DANE LADY...NEW ARTICLE ON GRAINS

And Becca, I'm willing to stipulate the studies from non-american sources. And the stuff we put in dog food, save maybe garlic, may be doing good for our pet. I just don't see how the GDL is any "weirder" than that. I detected she was getting a bit slammed. Has she made some inaccuracies? Possibly. And I feed Shadow bits of extra meat (not a lot) and I don't try to balance the calcium. I'm a bad boy.

And for Jackie G., my mother had hoped I would be a preacher. I am not, but we did study the Bible a lot. During the summer, we could be studying it from 8 in the morning to 8 at night, stopping for bathroom and food breaks. This went on for a couple of summers. As of consequence, I know sections of the Bible better than those who have been to church all of their lives. Sorry to go OT but I thought some might appreciate the context of how I know certain Bible Scriptures and their application.

And the stuff we put in dog food, save maybe garlic, may be doing good for our pet.

I think most of the stuff that goes into holistic commercial food is hooey.  I should state that up front.  If it's behind the fat in the ingredient list, there simply isn't much in there to make a difference with the exception of the vitamins and minerals.

But, for my own food, I do add things like berries for their antioxidant value, and jicama for its prebiotic gi conditioning ability.  And yes, I do add about 1/2 a clove of garlic per day to each dog's diet (except Zhi, who obviously gets much less).  It's true that onions are poisonous to dogs, and that garlic has the same substance.  But:

1. It actually takes a pretty intense and prolonged exposure to onions to start seeing problems - we're talking pounds of onions for a normal sized dog, over a few day's time.
2. Garlic has much, much, much less of the substance than onions.

So, what's the use of garlic in dogs except for the idea that it may keep mosquitos away? That's the reason I've heard most often.

Garlic, in the raw form, is an EXCELLENT antioxident...it's use is to aid in overall health.

I too feed my dogs garlic several times a week.

Bugs as you note, immune health, and heart health, plus the vitamin C in garlic is good for joint health.  It's also good for warding off upper respiratory ailments (ie kennel cough) during times of travel or stress.  It also has been shown to boost testosterone levels.

 You're totally missing the point.  The point of a grain-free diet is the simple fact that CARNIVORES CANNOT DIGEST GRAINS and grains are NOT a part of their natural diet. They are NOT biologically appropriate.  Dogs lack the enzymes needed to properly digest grain matter and grains are completely UNNECESSARY in a dog's diet.

 Sorry.. but I think the GDL is an idiot and she pushes grains because she hawks Eagle Pack.

Dogs lack the enzymes needed to properly digest grain matter

Dogs are not obligate carnivores, and you are right, they do not "need" grains either.  There's almost no animal that does, actually, naturally.

We're not talking about the dog as he came to us 150,000 years ago though.  We are talking about the dogs I live with, giant dogs and small dogs that would die off first in nature, then dogs that are so inefficient at their food input versus energy output that they'd not live to reproduce either. 

For suvh "unnatural" dogs, I turn to an "unnatural" feed to help me balance their intake.

24Pawsnclaws

Sorry.. but I think the GDL is an idiot and she pushes grains because she hawks Eagle Pack.

I seriously wouldn't read what she has to say then.

24Pawsnclaws

The point of a grain-free diet is the simple fact that CARNIVORES CANNOT DIGEST GRAINS and grains are NOT a part of their natural diet. They are NOT biologically appropriate.  Dogs lack the enzymes needed to properly digest grain matter and grains are completely UNNECESSARY in a dog's diet.

   If by grains you mean carbohydrates;    http://www.monicasegal.com/newsletters/2008-03NL.php

Myth:  Dogs lack the enzymes needed to digest carbohydrates.
Fact: Observation alone says that this is incorrect, but physiology is the true measure. The pancreas produces amylase (the enzyme required for breakdown of carbohydrates) very efficiently. In fact, a dog with pancreatitis needs such a low fat diet that calories must come from carbohydrates. Logic says that if even an inflamed pancreas copes best when carbohydrates are fed, a healthy pancreas certainly has no trouble. Further, studies show that pups as young as 4 weeks of age are producing amylase. The fact that dogs do not digest cellulose well is not unique. People don’t digest it well either. The difference is that we chew our food well whereas dogs are gulpers by nature. It would be a waste of creation to have amylase in the saliva of a gulper, but the canine pancreas makes up for it by producing plenty of amylase as needed.

   If dogs couldn't digest grains, how could they survive on the kibbles they're being fed. From personal experience; Jessie has been thriving on a home cooked diet for about 5 months, and the diet includes rice (she's allergic to white and sweet potatoes).

Excellent reply, Janice. And all the canids have been observed foraging vegetation. Wolves have eaten berries right off the bush. The Maned Wolf of South America gets 50 percent of its diet from plants, at times. In fact, it has a favorite plant named for it. Fruta Lobo, wolf's fruit.

Not to mention that wolves do eat the stomach contents of their kills, which contains vegetation in various states of digestion.

And my dog eats grass, roots, leaves, and wild pecans, all without provocation from me. I guess he hasn't read the websites that say he isn't suppose to want to eat vegetation. I'm going to have to teach him to read, I guess.

ron2

And my dog eats grass, roots, leaves, and wild pecans, all without provocation from me. I guess he hasn't read the websites that say he isn't suppose to want to eat vegetation. I'm going to have to teach him to read, I guess.

 

I was going to say that also...many dogs eat grass and leaves and things like that...and while some might be doing it if they are sick or so..... many are craving it and that is why they eat it. 

dyan

many dogs eat grass and leaves and things like that...and while some might be doing it if they are sick or so..... many are craving it and that is why they eat it. 

And that points to the root of what I am trying to say. I didn't train my dog to eat grass, leaves, etc. He just does it, as if it were a species thing. Whether it's just for roughage or balancing the GI or scavenging anything that might be digested or a behavior that gathers other vitamins not found in eating a cotton rat, he does it.

So, him eating Eagle Pack Lamb with oatmeal in it is not a catastrophe. He's going to get vegetation, whether it's in the food or he forages on his own. I can't seem to stop him from exhibiting omnivorous behavior. But I still think that's less embarassing than him jumping on guests. I'm crazy that way.

24Pawsnclaws

 You're totally missing the point.  The point of a grain-free diet is the simple fact that CARNIVORES CANNOT DIGEST GRAINS and grains are NOT a part of their natural diet. They are NOT biologically appropriate.  Dogs lack the enzymes needed to properly digest grain matter and grains are completely UNNECESSARY in a dog's diet.

 Sorry.. but I think the GDL is an idiot and she pushes grains because she hawks Eagle Pack.

Absolutely not true.

If dogs could not digest carbohydrates, they would not produce pancreatic amylase (which is excreted in the duodenum of the small intestine) to break them down....and they do produce it.  End of story.

 How do we know dogs aren't obligate carnivores like cats?  To list one reason, dogs produce 3 times more pancreatic amylase than cats. 

 

24Pawsnclaws

and grains are NOT a part of their natural diet.

Hmmm . . . I suppose the three dogs I had about twenty years ago, when we lived beside a corn field, never got around to reading the book that says grains aren't a natural part of their diet.  Because they sure did love to go out into the field at every opportunity, pull up stalks and drag them back into the yard, and feast on corn.  They LOVED it. 

papillon806

How do we know dogs aren't obligate carnivores like cats? 

 If cats are obligate carnivores, than why is there so much grain in commercial cat kibble?