GREAT DANE LADY...NEW ARTICLE ON GRAINS

ron2

stanton

You've done wonderful for your pups, Sandra, don't ever let anyone tell you or make you feel different. All we can do is our best, whether it's what we believe or what the dog tells us is right.

Which is what Sandra has done. Only to find a number of armchair nutritionists calling her dogfood garbage, ground-up saw dust, mixed with dead pets full of euthanasia chemicals, and extra cardboard. Usually from people that think they are the bee's knees on nutrition, even though they don't actually have certification in animal nutrition. There's even an answer here, for her. That the fresh veggies she feeds are overpowering the garbage of Purina. Essentially, there is no possible whay in heaven or hell that the Purina food could be doing any good at all, whatsoever. It has to be anything and everything else but Purina. And it doesn't matter that Sandra has had this experience all of her life, longer than some of the people calling her food garbage have been alive. (Sorry Sandra, I dont think I revealed your actual age). 40-ish years of dogs eating Purina Products.

And dogs die. Goldens are prone to cancer. You could feed them daily with a hand-fed diet designed and supervised by your own live-in CVN and the dog is still going to get cancer and die of it.

Oh no, it has to be Purina.

If it sounds like I've had it with the attitude up to my ears, it's probably because I've had it with the attitude up to my ears.

I never said it was the Purina or her choice in feeding that caused anything.

All I ever said was that I never had good luck with Purina years ago, so I never bothered to try it again, and I am against certain ingredients, I have no idea what ingredients are in Purina foods. I haven't looked at a bag of Purina since somewhere in the 80's.

And for what it's worth, I fed my late Malamute a life time of Nature's Recipe, which in reality is no different then quality of Purina. So don't try to tell me that I'm putting her down, because I'm not. We all are doing the best that we can. I simply said that I don't believe a dog needs a crap load of grains, nor would I feed a food that contained certain undigestable ingredients.

I feed what I feed now because it works, and I'm finding out its cheaper. I have tried several foods with my current Duck Toller Retriever, he either gets the pooies, throws up, gets ear infections, etc. he has had none of that since putting him on homecooked foods....THIS is why I do it. We haven't been to the vet since..so it works for me.

I've mentioned several times that I personally feel over-vaccinating has SO much more to do with overall health in life rather then just nutrition. What runs in a breed is genetic, there is only so much someone can do; for me, it's avoiding yearly vaccines, not allowing my dog to over-do himself by running on certain days, i.e. when there's snow and ice, I can't afford a broken leg nor do I want to predispose him further to hip issues with age. Although it's already a part of his genetics, I know that. So are other health problems...which thankfully he's not showing anything of at this point.

Chihuahua's are very common for heart problems, so I tend to keep mine on the thin side, give him extra Vit e, fish oils, etc to hopefully ward off what he could be predisposed to....but the big thing in my opinion and what I've always avoided was overvaccinating. 

All of my dogs get their first year adult vaccines and that's it, aside from Rabies. THIS is where I feel it could have a profound effect on overall health of life, doesn't mean it will, all I can do is hope.

Sandra, again, I feel you've done a wonderful job....your guy is gorgeous. Doesn't matter what he ate in life, all that matters is that he had a wonderful home and family.

Honestly, I think and wonder if the nutritional forum should be available. I think people get heated up too easily, I've been quilty of it too at times, and people are going to feed what they feel they've had the best experience with, so what is the overall purpose. If it makes people feel bad just by reading someone else's experiences, then it doesn't need to be available. Life is too hard as it is at times, one doesn't need to second guess him/herself at the end of a dog's lifespan wondering if they did or didn't do the right thing.

The only thing I would definitely want to change in my late Malamute's life, is I wouldn't have had her vaccinated every year and I wouldn't have allowed her to be overweight....this is where *I* went wrong!

One of the reasons too, why I don't visit this website much, cause I regret some of the things I could've done differently.

Ok, I've said my peace, hopefully no one takes it the wrong way....good luck to all of you, truly. 

Stanton, Ron was not referring to you or your posts.  What he was talking abou happened a good while back.  I was actually told that my Hunter may not have gotten AIHA had he been on "decent food" instead of that garbage Purina--tho he had never been sick a day in his life and it is proven that the ProHeart6 caues so many cases f AIHa and liver damage, plus other problems.  I was also told my Irish Setter may not have developed bone cancer at age 12----the one in the picture--had he been on decent foo instead of garbage.  Tht is what Ron was referring to--and the ones that made those statements are no longer on this forum 

I aLso homecook for my Honey--started doing this a few years ago when I had 3 goldens.  I put 5 lbs. chicken thights, about 3 pounds chicken necks, 1 to 1 1/2 pounds of  cut up beef liver or cut cup chicken gizzards  a couple of chopped sweet potatoes, couple of choppled apples, pound bag of green beans and some times some yellow or green squash, in crock pot with water and cook for 24 hours.  I keep out enough for 5 days and freeze the rest inbatches for 3 dys.  She gets plain kibble in the morning and at night, about half kibble and half home cooked "chicken stew" 5 times a week.  Gets canned mackeral or salmon (or fresh caught, cooked fish if I have it) the other 2 nights.

Ok...I feel better now. Thought that y'all thought I was trying to be rude. Sorry. I've been coming more and more to this website in the last few weeks, but, before I didn't visit as much.

I was once a member on another k-9 forum for a long time before it was either bought out or shut down, don't remember the name. But after my late girl passed away, coming to the dog forums and reading hard stories of other dogs becoming ill just got to be too hard for me. I'm coming back more and more again cause I realize that perhaps others have more ideas on all kinds of things.

My love for dogs has never changed however, I was just having a hard time reading and looking in the health forums.

You know my Grandparents ate the absolute best diet of rotation and very healthy foods their entire lives, I don't EVER remember my Grandad eating a single potato chip in his lifespan. They exercised and were very motivated physical people, never overweight, and guess what.....one passed away from Cancer at 83yrs old, the other had a heartattack at 80.

dyan

Some of us have reasons for changing...some of us have reasons for not changing...but we all are doing the best that we think we can.....or at least trying to do that.   However......our dogs are still getting sick, they are still having allergies and they are still dying. 

This is so true!  It's a little hard for me to get on my soapbox about what foods are good and bad when my dog spends more time in the vets office than anyones I know!

 Doesn't the Great Dane Lady work for EP

Not a bad thing... Everybody need a job...... but she sure has become a contradiction..

Eagle Pack Holistic Select Lg/ Giant Puppy food has over 2.0 % Calcium and the only way you would know is by calling their site. She has always recommended 1.5 or less for the larger breeds.

That is one of the biggest deceptions I've ever seen from a company touting their advancement in the feeding of Lg. breed dogs.

 Without a lot of Capital investment I don't believe EP has the capacity to make grain free and that may be the reason for the article..TOTW is selling like hotcakes..because of a very reasonable price and not over doing the protein levels ...

Sandra had it right and I was not implying that you are rude. And yes, the crud-filled attitude toward Purina was some time ago. Call it my upbringing. God forgives, I don't (I got that from my mother. I'm a mellower version of her.)

FWIW, I don't feed Purina. At least not now. But my old cat Misty, an obligate carnivore, lived 16 years on Purina's Delicat, and one year on Purina NF. I had her PTS for drastic kidney failure. And was told she might have lived longer if she had been fed this or that or something else besides Purina. Or that Purina used to be good and went down hill. One of my friends, on a vet's advice and the palatability, is feeding Science Diet K/D to her 17 year old cat. Let me repeat that. To her 17 year old cat. My in-laws' Lhasa Apso, Mitzi, was fed Purina One for years and also eats whatever they hand out at the senior center. Mitzi is blind from cataracts and deaf and has been incontinent lately, primarily because she's having trouble finding her way to the doggy door to get out. She is also 17 years old. Those conditions are not a result of the food but from being positively ancient. Even with the new math for dog years, that makes her somewhere over 74 years old equivalent to a human. I double dog dare anyone to come up with a 74 year old human that might not have a problem or two. My FIL had prostate cancer in his 70's. Now, he has a bad back and asthma and walks with a walker. And he is 85 years old.

Who knows? I may one day feed Purina again, if it's necessary or for whatever reason. I had good luck with Nutro and then they quit making Shadow's formula and now they've changed all the formulas. Fortunately, I've been having good luck with Eagle Pack.

I'm not much concerned with trying to feed Shadow the wild dog diet. I see the wild dog diet at work and it's not all it's cracked up to be. I'm talking about a real dog living feral and not a fantasy of what it should be. Shadow could live another 9 to 10 years, even though his life expectancy says another 7. All from eating food with some meat meal and grain in it. I doubt he would live that long in the wild. He's a dog, not a wolf. And wolves and other canids live an average of 4 to 6 years.

Must we ressurrect the old Purina arguments from the past?  No one in this thread has singled out Purina in a negative way.

fish n dog

Eagle Pack Holistic Select Lg/ Giant Puppy food has over 2.0 % Calcium

Calcium 1.1%

What she does say about calcium on her website is:

If you are feeding a commercial kibble, regardless of quality you choose to use, the food must have, by law, the correct ratio of calcium to phosphorus in the food. When you add a pet calcium supplement to the food, that only disrupts the balance of this calcium/phosphorus ration and can over do the amount of calcium in a diet causing skeletal disease

fish n dog

Doesn't the Great Dane Lady work for EP

No. In fact she has a list of the dog foods that she recommends along with their phone numbers to order from.

In an interview found on her website:

Q:Kathy: Do you sell any of the products you talk about in your articles?

A:Linda: Oh, absolutely not. It is critical I remain neutral when doing my own feed trials and personal research. Besides I don't have the time or inclination. You know artists are generally lousy business people and could care less. No I just use the stuff I write about. All the nutritional information and products I write about are human grade products that apply to dogs, cats and humans.

sandra_slayton

Dyan , one thing you and I are adament about and believe with all our hearts---over vaccination, to many chemicals, is doing a lot of harm to our dogs. 

You got THAT right Sandra!!

Its always unbelievable to me when I hear people saying things like corn or grains or certain ingredients are so dangerous......but then give their dogs chemicals to kill fleas....or heartworms. 

At the end of the day...how do you know which is more dangerous..... a grain or a chemical meant to kill a pest?  I think I would take corn any old day.

Sorry to inform you... of the Deception

 What you posted is the Min.... What is actually in the Puppy Kibble for Lg. breed Puppies is a whopping 2.06... This is called the N/A  or real life figure after analysis after processing....

So they post that low figure on their Web site... letting you think it is within the magic 1.5 range.. Well it is not and you would only know by calling...

And I've read the Great Dane Lady for many years... and always mentioned never feeding Lg, Breed pups over the 1.5..

I've called EP and got that figure... very recently.. asked to speak to John Marsman about this... and never had him call back..

Shame on the Great Dane Lady, and shame on Eagle Pack and their chief nutritionist for not coming clean... and posting the real figures on their site...

I don't know the proper way to get cross permission to post, so I will give you a link the Lab. Ret people who got talking about this..

http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/calcium-levels-puppy-t7307616.html?t=7307616&highlight=calcium+levels

That's unreal if they are really misrepresenting important info like that!  Is that even legal?  WTH?? 

I've learned my lesson over the years, they all are deceptive, they all double talk, they all want to sell their stuff.  People used to post how SD or Iams or Purina were this or that.  But, in "better" foods, I've encountered lying from reps, mislabels, quality control problems, inconsistency in the food itself. . .

And, I never was a huge fan of the Great Dane Lady.  I just don't get how a food can be so great and you've got to add this, that and every other thing to it.  I know others swear by her, and that's fine, everyone has to do what they feel is best.

There is no wonder food or company out there.  We can just do what works for our dog and encourage a healthy all around lifestyle too. 

Dyan....if you're not giving heartworm prevention, then just how are you preventing your dogs from getting heartworms?

I don't do flea treatments, etc, but I do do Interceptor every month, I have no choice. I won't take a chance with heartworms, I've seen a few dogs die from it, it's not pretty.

jenns

Must we ressurrect the old Purina arguments from the past?  No one in this thread has singled out Purina in a negative way.

Actually, I think it was inevitable to notice similarities. It used to be expose Purina. Then it was expose Nutro. Now, it's expose Eagle Pack and the Great Dane Lady. Must have been a slow week with nothing else to do and nothing to complain about.

We HAVE to give heart worm preventives down here on the Texas coast or as sure as the sun cojes in the morning  the dog will develope heart worms.  First time I ever heart of those nasty creatres wassomething like 35 years ago when my Dad's elderly English setter was dagnosed with them and the treatment killed him.

Honey, our golden mix, was right at a year old when we adoted her and a month later we had to have her treated for heart worms.  My neghbor didn't give the pills to her "inside dogs", both were diagnosed with the heartworms, the older cocekr died about 2 years back.  It was awful watching him gasp for breath and collapse after walking 10 steps or so.  this past summr the younger one, about 6 now, had puppies  (the people never had her spayed) and the stress was to much and she died.,  Need I say, they "could not afford" to treat either dog,m but could spend $100 a month on collector cards, $40 on boards for their boys to break in some martial arts an plenty of beer and cigarettes.  So here, HEW preventative has to be iven year round.

HOWEVER, I do not do flea stuff routinely every month.  I try to treat the yard and not the dog.  It has been several months since I gae Honey her last Comnforti pil and have not seen a flea.  Also m vet has gone to the 3 year routine of vax and even tho both our city and our county say rabies eery year (our stae says every 3 years) when he gave Hony her vax last Spring he said he ws makig it notied it was good for 3 years.  He had been doing that KayCee for 6 years, since she had a severe reaction to her 2ed set of annual vax. 

I just recently joined a forum in Australia and we talked about vax and they are becoming concerned with the over vaccinaton scene down there---and they do not get near as many vax as our dogs do.,  People are walking up.  Heck, now they have have a vax to prevent tartar on dogs teeth.  No way will I put another drug into Honey's body that isn't100% necessary.

I do not follow any of the "experts" on what they write about foods.  I only go by my years of feeding.  I made the original post here because I knew some o you follow her and also with the discussion of grains or not, this might be interesting  Along with many others, I say feed your dog what it dogs best on, not what some expert tells you is the right food for your dog.  You are the one that sees, touches, knows your dog.

fish n dog

Sorry to inform you... of the Deception

 What you posted is the Min.... What is actually in the Puppy Kibble for Lg. breed Puppies is a whopping 2.06... This is called the N/A  or real life figure after analysis after processing....

 

So they post that low figure on their Web site... letting you think it is within the magic 1.5 range.. Well it is not and you would only know by calling...

 

And I've read the Great Dane Lady for many years... and always mentioned never feeding Lg, Breed pups over the 1.5..

 

I've called EP and got that figure... very recently.. asked to speak to John Marsman about this... and never had him call back..

 

Shame on the Great Dane Lady, and shame on Eagle Pack and their chief nutritionist for not coming clean... and posting the real figures on their site...

I don't know the proper way to get cross permission to post, so I will give you a link the Lab. Ret people who got talking about this..

http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/calcium-levels-puppy-t7307616.html?t=7307616&highlight=calcium+levels

Thats funny...any time I have ever contacted John, he has always answered.  But you know what...he frequents this forum...I bet he will have an answer.  I sure am not going to answer for them. First...I have never read much about what Linda says about Calcium but rather keeping the protein level down on GD puppies.      I'm sure John from Eagle would love to know your thoughts though.