GREAT DANE LADY...NEW ARTICLE ON GRAINS

Dyan - I understand you completely, I'm not saying you should do any different. Only saying that a dog will lose weight if you take away the grains. I completely agree with not trying a non-grain diet until he's done growing. I absolutely refused to put Rivers on homecooked until he was around 14-15mnths of age, even then he was skin and bones. Still is, but, I think it's more to do with his breed disposition as he was skinny from the word go.

I also know how you feel when you say you made a ton of food and it didn't go far, I feel that way every dang weekend, and as I'm typing this, I have 20# of chicken simmering waiting for me to debone it. It only lasts me a week, but, my gang together, 2 6# dogs and one 53# probably eats much less then your Dane does.

Like I said...if I had a guy as big as yours, or even another big dog, I wouldn't be doing homecooked for the big guys at least. I have no choice for my little Pom, homecooked meals have been a literal lifesaver for him.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Eagle Pack foods, I've never tried them simply because they've never been excessible in my neck of the woods.

jenns

 I know, and I pointed out you said that, but your two statements were contradictory (1. that dogs need energy from a carb source, and 2. every dog is different), and neither statement can be true at the same time.  Sorry, just trying to clarify things. 

Actually, yes they can both be true statements.  1.) Initial statement was what has been scientifically proven in regards to a dog's dietary carbohydrate needs for energy requirements and metabolism and 2.) Second statement mentioned that the amounts needed depend on each dog---depending on what type of carbohydrate and how much they need; hence "every dog is different."

That is not contradictory
 

stanton

right now I'm using HK Preference pre-mix as the base of the diet, and simply adding my own meats, of which I rotate between chicken, turkey, beef heart, and any organ meat I can get my hands on. They also get canned salmon, eggs, yogurt, etc.

  I've heard good things about HK but Jessie's allergic to all their formulas.

That figures...typical for something to not work right. I'm actually surprised that all my dogs can eat it without issues.

My Irish Setter LOVED fruts and vegetables.  he ate tomatoes, yellow squahs and green pepper right off the vine in my garden.  When he saw me cutting cantaloup or watermelon, he could not contain himself, all dancing around droling.

One time my boys had a lot of friends over for supper and i made spaghetti with meat sauce, green beans, tossed salad, garlic bread and dessert.  Youngest son took trash out before supper, came running in and said there was a HUE rat at the trashcan, and we all dashed out to see it---tho i am sure it was probably a possum. 

 When we came back in, Boots was on the table eating-----not the spaghetti/ meat sauce nor bread, but the tossed salad.  He was one dog that would have been perfectly happy with no meat, just fruit, veggies, breads and sweets.

When he was diagnose wiht bone cancer after he turned 12, we opted against amputation, but gave him 10 gret weks of going fishing eery day with me where he cahsed crabs in shallow water, tyried to catch shore birds, even pulled some fish off my stringer, and pounced on,an underside flounder i released in 6" of water, put his head under the water and came up with the flounder.  Meanwhile, we were giving him all the fruit and veggies he wanted and what we had for dessert, so did he-----banana split, strawberry shortcake, apple pie with ice cream, brownies.  Normally, these are things my dog would never get, but we knew he was terminal and we made those last 2 1/2 months great for him.  And when we knew hadspread to his shoulder, we let him go, but he had fun to the end at the beach and eating his beloved fruits, veggies, and sweets.  He was 12 1/2 when he went tothe bridge.  O, by h way, d been a Puria Dog Chow doog his entire life--with waht uit and veggies he could sneak, and later, fresh caught mackea orotherfish. when we had it.

Sounds like he had a wonderful life. I can invision a dog diving in the water for a fish....my late big girl did the same, for a trout up in the high country of Utah. I too miss her dearly. I have this dream quite often that she comes down out of the trees from up in the mountains while we're having a picnic and comes to visit. I miss her very dearly.

You've done wonderful for your pups, Sandra, don't ever let anyone tell you or make you feel different. All we can do is our best, whether it's what we believe or what the dog tells us is right.

Every dog I've ever had has had a craving for veggies, I've never once had one that wouldn't eat salad....that's hilarious that yours was eating it over the meat though.

I have 2 dogs that if given the chance will eat butter....they won't touch anything else, just the gosh darn butter. I can't throw empty butter wrappers in the kitchen trash either.

BOOTS DSCOVERED THAT HE COULD GET IN A CHAIR, TURN AROUND AND SIT ON THE TABLE AND SEE WHAT I WAS DOING ON THE KITCHEN COUNTER.  HE KNEW HE WAS NOT SUPPOSE TO DO THIS AND WHEN I HEADED TOWARDS HIM, HE GOT DOWN.  FINALLY ONE DAY MY SON MANAGED TO SNAP THIS PICTURE OF BOOTS WATCHING ME COOK.    AT THIS TIME I HAD NOT YET STARTED GIVING HIM FISH (FILETED AND COOKED IN MICROWAVE) THAT WE CAUGHT.  HE WAS STRICTLY PURINA DOG CHOW AND SOME FRUIT AND VEGGIES HE MANAGED TO CON FROM US.

He was beautiful Sandra..... no matter what he ate...the shine of his coat...the "smile" in his eyes..... just beautiful!

stanton

You've done wonderful for your pups, Sandra, don't ever let anyone tell you or make you feel different. All we can do is our best, whether it's what we believe or what the dog tells us is right.

Which is what Sandra has done. Only to find a number of armchair nutritionists calling her dogfood garbage, ground-up saw dust, mixed with dead pets full of euthanasia chemicals, and extra cardboard. Usually from people that think they are the bee's knees on nutrition, even though they don't actually have certification in animal nutrition. There's even an answer here, for her. That the fresh veggies she feeds are overpowering the garbage of Purina. Essentially, there is no possible whay in heaven or hell that the Purina food could be doing any good at all, whatsoever. It has to be anything and everything else but Purina. And it doesn't matter that Sandra has had this experience all of her life, longer than some of the people calling her food garbage have been alive. (Sorry Sandra, I dont think I revealed your actual age). 40-ish years of dogs eating Purina Products.

And dogs die. Goldens are prone to cancer. You could feed them daily with a hand-fed diet designed and supervised by your own live-in CVN and the dog is still going to get cancer and die of it.

Oh no, it has to be Purina.

If it sounds like I've had it with the attitude up to my ears, it's probably because I've had it with the attitude up to my ears.

papillon806

 

Actually, yes they can both be true statements.  1.) Initial statement was what has been scientifically proven in regards to a dog's dietary carbohydrate needs for energy requirements and metabolism and 2.) Second statement mentioned that the amounts needed depend on each dog---depending on what type of carbohydrate and how much they need; hence "every dog is different."

That is not contradictory
 

Then I have to disagree with both of your statements. Dogs can make their own glucose from fat and protein.  As long as your dog is getting enough fat and protein, from a raw or prey-model diet for example, energy production should not be an issue.  Now many dogs do better with carbs, but many dogs do not need them at all, so it's not just a matter of how much carbohydrate they need, but if they need it to begin with.

ron2

And dogs die. Goldens are prone to cancer. You could feed them daily with a hand-fed diet designed and supervised by your own live-in CVN and the dog is still going to get cancer and die of it.

You know Ron....this is the truth.  Over the years on this forum and others...one of the most read threads for me has been nutrition..... along with the health threads.   Most of us over the years have gone to premium,,,super premium,,, home cooked and raw.... and some like Sandra have stuck to what they think is best for their dog.  Some of us have reasons for changing...some of us have reasons for not changing...but we all are doing the best that we think we can.....or at least trying to do that.   However......our dogs are still getting sick, they are still having allergies and they are still dying.   I got Bubblegum and gave her the very best I could.... did the very most for her that I could. I worried myself sick about the Great Dane and bloat.....outside of that..she was in such great shape...so healthy and happy that I really thought she was going to set a new record on GD life span......and look what got her...some God awful neurological disease.  Some of us like Janice...has found something to work for her dog in her homecooking, some of us like my son with Ollie found he was best with no vaccinations....some of us are still trying.  But all in all...we are doing what we think is best......if we were not doing that...we probably wouldn't be passing our time on dog message boards or spending time reading Great Dane Ladys website...or Lillians Dog Food Project.  Thats the way it is. We can not all go to the same way of thinking......it wouldn't work for all of us.   That is why I get upset with the sarcasm that sometimes goes on within these threads.

jenns

papillon806

 

Actually, yes they can both be true statements.  1.) Initial statement was what has been scientifically proven in regards to a dog's dietary carbohydrate needs for energy requirements and metabolism and 2.) Second statement mentioned that the amounts needed depend on each dog---depending on what type of carbohydrate and how much they need; hence "every dog is different."

That is not contradictory
 

Then I have to disagree with both of your statements. Dogs can make their own glucose from fat and protein.  As long as your dog is getting enough fat and protein, from a raw or prey-model diet for example, energy production should not be an issue.  Now many dogs do better with carbs, but many dogs do not need them at all, so it's not just a matter of how much carbohydrate they need, but if they need it to begin with.

Ok, so disagree.  I suppose the Ohio State research study paper should be recanted then?  Clearly these are just your opinions which you are entitled too, so I see no point of continuing this.

I'm done here...really.
 

As well as I know Purna has worked for my dogs (I got my first, an English Setter puppy in '56) I do know not all dogs do well on it.  But that can also be said for any food. 

 I am quite sure some dogs do not tolerate grains or at least some of them.  They may not be able t handle corn and wheat, but rice is great.  Or maybe they can't handle wheat and rice, but corn is okay.   Same with didfferent meats and probalby vgegies as well. 

And rRon is right about cancer and goldens.  It is very heart breaking to constantly find posts on my golden retrieer forum about dogs with cancer.  One one forum, just this past week there were 4 new cases of cancer report.  Two were lung cancer, one is cancer of the lliver and spleen, one is bone cancer.  And just read the post replies where ones talk having lost one or 2 goldens to cancer.  It is scarey.  And these dogs were fed/are being fed everything from cheap to top of the line, raw, and home cooked.  It seems to make no difference. Dogs are as young as a year old, up to seniors of 11 to 15 years.  Mot seem to be between 6 and 9 years, tho.

 One lady lost her goldne--I am thinking he was 8--to cancer, and she switched to raw .  This was like 6 or 7 years ago.  This week, she found her 11 year old golden--son of the one that died of liver cancer --6-7 years ago--has  cancer all thru his lungs   

I have about come to the conclusion that  food has very little, if anything, to do with cuasing or preventing cancer.  I do believe if a dog has a good enough health system they can fight a disease better, but nutrition will not prevent cancer.    I berlieve poor nutrition will make for unhealthy dog and allow the disease to take over faster, easier, but will not cause it.  An by poor nutrition, I am not talking brand of dg food...tho some would not ever go into a food bowl of my dog.  I am talking dogs thatare fed people junk food.  ...cake, cady, chips, etc.  I remember reading of one rescue golden, 210 pounds, that was being fed beer and donuts.  Even tho taken from his owners, he died a few weeks later.  He was pretty young, but so over weight, his heart gave out.  This dog was at the Golden Retriever Rescue of Mid Florida and set me on my way to donating to several rescues a few times a year. 

 Do dogs need grain?  I can not say for certain.  Does grain  hurt them?  I say no unless they are allergic to it. Do dogs need fruit and vggies?  Again I can not say with 100 accuracy yes or no, but I know all mine have  enjoyed grazing from time to time, all of either enjoyed fruits and veggies, or down right prefered them to meat --in the case of Boots.  Do experts agree on grina, fruit and veggies for adogs?  HECK NO..  I guess whichever one you like the bestis the one you agree with.

Dyan , one thing you and I are adament about and believe with all our hearts---over vaccination, to many chemicals, is doing a lot of harm to our dogs.  I know dogs HAVE to have heartworm prevention, especially down here where we have "skeeters"  year round.  Our Honey, adopted "right at a year old" had themwhen we adopted her.  My niehgbor's 2 dogs, inside dogs,were never given the prevention becuse they were "indoor dogs" have both died of heartworms.    We have no choice here--p[revention or heartworms.  But I do go as little and lightly on flea prevention as possible and try to eep hem from the yard, treat the yard rather than Honey when possible.  I  had no luck with Frontline this year and \switched to Comnfortis and it works GREAT for fleas (but not for ticks, which we do not have a problem with) and she has not had to a tblet in seveal months.

My vet has gone to vax every 3 years and only gives lyme and lepto at clients request--no case of lyme reported down here, only one case of Lepto in this area. 

papillon806

 

Ok, so disagree.  I suppose the Ohio State research study paper should be recanted then?  Clearly these are just your opinions which you are entitled too, so I see no point of continuing this.

I'm done here...really.
 

Well that was uncalled for...

A summary of the study and its results might prove to be more insightful.