Abady Ingredients Posted

mudpuppy

It's not that economical. EVO has 1924.5 kcal/ pound of food, about the same as Abaday classic at 2143.7 kcal/ pound. EVO costs $45.99 for 28.6 pounds of food. Abaday costs $72.99 for 40 pounds of classic. EVO is thus costing you $1.61 per pound, which works out to 1195 kcal per $1 spent; for Abaday classic you pay $1.82 per pound, which works out to 1178 kcal per $1 spent. EVO is more economical to feed and has a far superior ingredient list and profile.

I'm not sure where you buy your "classic" at $72.99, but I pay 65 per box.  Your opinion of which ingredient list is 'far superior' is strictly your opinion, certainly not mine.  We all make our choices and I'm satisfied with mine.  You have your reasons why you would never consider feeding Abady, and I have my reasons why I would never consider feeding EVO or TWO for that matter.  Like I said, we all make our choices and I'm completely satisfied with my choices and the results.  Thanks.

 CC.

 Charlie just wanted to say it's good to see you back.You've brought a little excitement and debate back

 

I would like to  say however that it would be nice to see you post on other threads that arent about Abady,and to get involved in threads without bringing the product up. 

Edie

 Charlie just wanted to say it's good to see you back.You've brought a little excitement and debate back

I would like to  say however that it would be nice to see you post on other threads that arent about Abady,and to get involved in threads without bringing the product up. 

http://forum.dog.com/forums/t/72026.aspx?PageIndex=3

http://forum.dog.com/forums/t/72247.aspx

Feel any better now?

mudpuppy

You're fondly imaging by-products to be the nutritious organs, though, when it actual fact it is an undefined product that varies from batch to batch and is probably mostly intestines, a not-very-nutritious body part. Better than corn, sure, but still, to see by-products in a food suggests it's not a very premium food. If they really wanted to buy liver and heart and so forth they could, and put them in the ingredients separately like the pre-made raws do.

Matter of opinion.  In fact, Abady research would indicate, NO dog food can be adequate without the liberal inclusion of animal by-products.  Diets that start with meat muscle are they very diets at fault considering the 75% moisture rule calculated as a solid.  In actuality, diets starting with meat muscle translates into very little meat protein due to the moisture content of that starter.  True, by-product meals also contain moisture but due to the cheaper costs in comparison to muscle meat, your getting multiple times more in content, up to 3X's as much in comparison to meat muscle.  If you have any doubts with that, double check those cals.

In regards to separating organ meats in the diets, you're 30 years too late.  Abady raw diets were the first in the market place 30 years ago to separate organ meat in the ingredients lists.  Those that do that today with the 'modern' pre-made raw diets are known as followers, not leaders. 

CC.

cc431

mudpuppy

You're fondly imaging by-products to be the nutritious organs, though, when it actual fact it is an undefined product that varies from batch to batch and is probably mostly intestines, a not-very-nutritious body part. Better than corn, sure, but still, to see by-products in a food suggests it's not a very premium food. If they really wanted to buy liver and heart and so forth they could, and put them in the ingredients separately like the pre-made raws do.

Matter of opinion.  In fact, Abady research would indicate, NO dog food can be adequate without the liberal inclusion of animal by-products.  Diets that start with meat muscle are they very diets at fault considering the 75% moisture rule calculated as a solid.  In actuality, diets starting with meat muscle translates into very little meat protein due to the moisture content of that starter.  True, by-product meals also contain moisture but due to the cheaper costs in comparison to muscle meat, your getting multiple times more in content, up to 3X's as much in comparison to meat muscle.  If you have any doubts with that, double check those cals.

In regards to separating organ meats in the diets, you're 30 years too late.  Abady raw diets were the first in the market place 30 years ago to separate organ meat in the ingredients lists.  Those that do that today with the 'modern' pre-made raw diets are known as followers, not leaders. 

CC.

I always worry about people who follow one person with no questioning. Why in the world would you believe "research" from a person that is contrary to that of many, many other talented people and honestlly common sense. Why would you put your faith in someone who cannot back up their claims? Why would you trust someone whose claims are not proven? The foods themselves aren't horrible, they aren't great IMO, but the problem is the marketing and frankly nonsense that comes with them. I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who claims they have some novel reasearch who refuses to subject it to peer review is lying or a bad person. Lying because they can't or a bad person because they don't want to share a "breakthrough" with the world and profit off it. So which is Abady? Does it matter? Both are bad alternatives. I wouldn't even feed that food if it was given to me for free. I'll stick with ziwipeak, honest kitchen, primal, NV, EVO, etc......

I think it's great that Abady is listening to the customers and making information about their product more available. 

ottoluv

I always worry about people who follow one person with no questioning. Why in the world would you believe "research" from a person that is contrary to that of many, many other talented people and honestlly common sense. Why would you put your faith in someone who cannot back up their claims? Why would you trust someone whose claims are not proven? The foods themselves aren't horrible, they aren't great IMO, but the problem is the marketing and frankly nonsense that comes with them. I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who claims they have some novel reasearch who refuses to subject it to peer review is lying or a bad person. Lying because they can't or a bad person because they don't want to share a "breakthrough" with the world and profit off it. So which is Abady? Does it matter? Both are bad alternatives. I wouldn't even feed that food if it was given to me for free. I'll stick with ziwipeak, honest kitchen, primal, NV, EVO, etc......

Very simple, I follow with one person and one company because it all seems to make sense to me.  If you can't trust your feed maker, who can you trust...lol.  I only majored in political science, he's got the bio-chemistry degree.  When I read dogs are carnivores and should be feed accordingly, I said to myself I'm all in, sounds good to me.  So I put my faith in a small company with a 30 year track record and I feel it has worked well for my dogs for over 5 years now.  Glad to hear your sticking with your favorites, BTW, how long have they been around?

  Not to be a wise guy or anything, but in all honesty I've always worried about people who just follow along with crowd without questioning.  Independent thought doesn't bother in the slightest.  Just listen to these clowns on TV.  They are all saying exactly what you like to hear.  They all sling it pretty good.   Kind of reminds me of all these dog food companies, all saying what you want to hear.  No wonder people home cook.   Look what happened when many us just followed along with the crowd with the current President.  I think I'm going to declare myself an Independent and not even vote on Super Tuesday.  I'm sick of it already.

CC.

This looks like an excellent food to me. I haven't been involved in the past debates (and don't plan to get involved further than this post now), but I never looked into it. From what's presented here, it looks fantastic. Yes, expensive (and a bit pretentious in the presentation), but it looks like I'd be feeding far less. I haven't done the math, but it may even be less expensive to feed my dogs this. I can't get it here, and I'm not sure I'd buy it if I could get it, but I think it looks great.

Canidae 75-100 lbs  3-4 cups a day (I'm feeding Jaia 4 cups a day)

Abady  85 lbs  2 3/4 cups a day

cc431

ottoluv

I always worry about people who follow one person with no questioning. Why in the world would you believe "research" from a person that is contrary to that of many, many other talented people and honestlly common sense. Why would you put your faith in someone who cannot back up their claims? Why would you trust someone whose claims are not proven? The foods themselves aren't horrible, they aren't great IMO, but the problem is the marketing and frankly nonsense that comes with them. I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who claims they have some novel reasearch who refuses to subject it to peer review is lying or a bad person. Lying because they can't or a bad person because they don't want to share a "breakthrough" with the world and profit off it. So which is Abady? Does it matter? Both are bad alternatives. I wouldn't even feed that food if it was given to me for free. I'll stick with ziwipeak, honest kitchen, primal, NV, EVO, etc......

Very simple, I follow with one person and one company because it all seems to make sense to me.  If you can't trust your feed maker, who can you trust...lol.  I only majored in political science, he's got the bio-chemistry degree.  When I read dogs are carnivores and should be feed accordingly, I said to myself I'm all in, sounds good to me.  So I put my faith in a small company with a 30 year track record and I feel it has worked well for my dogs for over 5 years now.  Glad to hear your sticking with your favorites, BTW, how long have they been around?

  Not to be a wise guy or anything, but in all honesty I've always worried about people who just follow along with crowd without questioning.  Independent thought doesn't bother in the slightest.  Just listen to these clowns on TV.  They are all saying exactly what you like to hear.  They all sling it pretty good.   Kind of reminds me of all these dog food companies, all saying what you want to hear.  No wonder people home cook.   Look what happened when many us just followed along with the crowd with the current President.  I think I'm going to declare myself an Independent and not even vote on Super Tuesday.  I'm sick of it already.

CC.

It's not a crowd following thing, you still are not getting it. I don't follow anyone, I read the studies and make my own decisions. My point is that someone who like yourself, who can't adequately assess or critique the facts (per your own admission due to training in another area and not science) should not put their faith in a person who is saying something different then everyone else, especially when he doesn't submit his "research" (loose use of the term) to peer review. It's not like politics charlie, that is a very poor example based on personal preference and not bench science. Research HAS to be reproducible period for it to be correct or true. Years in service means nothing either. Do you have any idea how much has changed in science in the last 30 years? How many theories and studies were shown to be wrong now that better methods and techniques exist? No one is blindly following natura and saying all hail innova EVO. That's just stupid, they are under critique just like the rest. Just read the threads about high protein and grain free kibble. Not everything is know, no one knows what the optimal food is for every dog. The best we can do is assess what data there is and make reccomendations based on the individual. Abady cannot be the perfect food for every dog even if it was a good food. Abady is like a cult, a bunch of people blindly following the "teachings" of another and never questioning, never thinking for themselves, trusting ONE person. Nope, not interested thanks. It's the same draw as a cult, people like to feel special, like they have or know something other's don't. Some secret to good dog health.

ottoluv

It's not a crowd following thing, you still are not getting it. I don't follow anyone, I read the studies and make my own decisions. My point is that someone who like yourself, who can't adequately assess or critique the facts (per your own admission due to training in another area and not science) should not put their faith in a person who is saying something different then everyone else, especially when he doesn't submit his "research" (loose use of the term) to peer review. It's not like politics charlie, that is a very poor example based on personal preference and not bench science. Research HAS to be reproducible period for it to be correct or true. Years in service means nothing either. Do you have any idea how much has changed in science in the last 30 years? How many theories and studies were shown to be wrong now that better methods and techniques exist? No one is blindly following natura and saying all hail innova EVO. That's just stupid, they are under critique just like the rest. Just read the threads about high protein and grain free kibble. Not everything is know, no one knows what the optimal food is for every dog. The best we can do is assess what data there is and make reccomendations based on the individual. Abady cannot be the perfect food for every dog even if it was a good food. Abady is like a cult, a bunch of people blindly following the "teachings" of another and never questioning, never thinking for themselves, trusting ONE person. Nope, not interested thanks. It's the same draw as a cult, people like to feel special, like they have or know something other's don't. Some secret to good dog health.

We think alike in some respects, just at the opposite end of the spectrum.  You mentioned you would never feed Abady products even if given to you for free.  Trust me, I feel the same way in regards to your products.  I would never consider feeding my dogs that stuff, not even if it was free.  You also mentioned you don't think Abady is all the bad, you can't stand the marketing.  The difference is, I wouldn't feed your products irregardless of feelings of their marketing, I simply don't care for the ingredients.  Zoey is not my first dog and I have fed kibbled products in the past.  It was my decision to back off from them and quite pleased with the results.  I have done my research and through personal experience have found what Robert Abady says to be true.  I have plenty of options of what to feed, but I choose what I feel is best for my dogs in those regards. 

My dog hunts along side kibble fed dogs.  I mentioned before, they are all gassed after a few hours.  None have the energy or stamina to keep up with my dog.  I SEE THE RESULTS.  My dog can fast for 48 hours and still out preform the kibbled fed dogs.  My choice of what to feed is not based strictly upon what I read, but rather based upon good solid results.  Some people feed because they like the marketing.  Some feed because X product is affordable and within their budget.  Some feed because the grant money put up Mr Iams and Ralston Purina has skewed peer-reviewed studies on their behalf.  No thanks.  I feed based upon what I personally feel is best and by my results I see first hand.

If Abady is a cult, it has a pretty strong following.  You may not put much faith in products tested over time, but 30 years is a pretty good track record.  I am pretty sure they ship world wide, so the so-called cult extends pretty much around the globe.  Are they seeking out new members in the cult?  I don't think so because you don't really see much advertising directed at John Q. Public.  I think they do well enough as a company with very little advertising in regards to recruitment of new cult members.

Are you implying that Abady is not under critique like other companies.  They put out a lot of info in their literature.  So how does a dog food company get on the best foods list of the Whole Dog Journal?  Is it the size and thickness of the envelope?  Did Purina feeds make it to the best foods list yet again!  Abady doesn't play that game, in fact you will never see Abady feeds listed at the WDJ.  Abady puts the pressure on them to come clean and tell the truth, not the other way around.  Abady is not ducking anything in regards to their approach to feeding.  They use animal by-products and tell you so in the literature.  They are not afraid losing customers because of some yuck-factor and aesthetic personal appeal of ingredients.  They produce products what they feel best for optimum health for dogs and the feeds are designed to keep you out of the Vets office.

cc431

In fact, Abady research would indicate, NO dog food can be adequate without the liberal inclusion of animal by-products.

 

   This is where the word " FACT " becomes a problem for me....  I believe ABADY RESEARCH is just snake oil salesmanship. If our government did better regulation of Pet Foods Abady would have to change quite a bit about their marketing..

I tried the New Frontier with all that great" Chicken Meal" The gas it created in my dog could have solved the energy crisis.

 

fish n dog

   This is where the word " FACT " becomes a problem for me....  I believe ABADY RESEARCH is just snake oil salesmanship. If our government did better regulation of Pet Foods Abady would have to change quite a bit about their marketing..

I tried the New Frontier with all that great" Chicken Meal" The gas it created in my dog could have solved the energy crisis.

At least you tried it before making a decision whether or not it was right for your dog.   I find your other comment more interesting in regards to the marketing.  Actually, interesting and extremely ironic at the same time.  Since the pet food recall fiasco stemming from imported gluten, the legal battle is underway against some some of those companies.  But you are probably not aware, they are directly going after the marketing strategies of those companies involved.  It deals with the humanization aspect of your pets and how that affects the way people think in regards to their pets nutrition.  I feel pretty confident you have no idea what I am referring to, and also many here would also find it hard to believe, but it is true.  The lawyers presenting the argument on behalf of the plaintiffs are attacking the very marketing that many have come to accept as honest marketing.  It is not honest but extremely deceptive marketing designed to justify the use of cheap ingredients, ingredients inappropriate for carnivore feeding.  They're not going after Abady, but all the other companies many have put their faith in only to get burned big time.  The links have been posted in the past in the pet food recall section of this forum, but I think they have since been removed.  I know it is tough pill to swallow but true.  Abady lays it all out on the line in the literature.  The rest are putting seat belts on the dogs in the front seat of convertibles and taking a swim in the Olympic size pool....humanization...and good wholesome fruits and veggies for your best buddy.  Really now, who is practicing snake-oil salesmanship...think about it.

The lawsuit alleges that pet food companies market their products as wholesome, choice

cuts of meat, natural and complete and balanced diets even though they are fully aware

that this food is largely carbohydrates and sugars combined with toxic preservatives and

additives with very little to no meat at all. The lawsuit seeks damages to consumers for

the false representations made in the Defendants’ advertising as well as punitive

damages. http://www.mflegal.com/petfood/Blaszkowski-Press-Release.pdf

FourIsCompany

This looks like an excellent food to me. I haven't been involved in the past debates (and don't plan to get involved further than this post now), but I never looked into it. From what's presented here, it looks fantastic. Yes, expensive (and a bit pretentious in the presentation), but it looks like I'd be feeding far less. I haven't done the math, but it may even be less expensive to feed my dogs this. I can't get it here, and I'm not sure I'd buy it if I could get it, but I think it looks great.

Canidae 75-100 lbs  3-4 cups a day (I'm feeding Jaia 4 cups a day)

Abady  85 lbs  2 3/4 cups a day

Hi,

No need to get involved in the debate, I can appreciate and respect that but would just like to say yes, you will be feeding less and most find it is a savings especially in the long run.  My own experience, I find they eat slightly less than what the feeding tables would indicate.  Everyone has a different situation and environment plays a factor as well.  Note they mention if dogs are kenneled exclusively outdoors, you would see an increase in amounts required for every 10 degree drop below 50 degrees.  Hard workers, again the amounts will increase slightly.  If your dogs are anything like mine, they don't mind skipping a meal.  They eat when they're hungry and sometimes food will sit there all day.  That happens when there bodies get caught up from a standpoint of nourishment and they never wolf down meals.  Sometimes they won't even finish.  They only eat until there caloric needs are met then they stop.  Four dogs med to large and a little concerned about the money, I recommend ECONOMY Maintenance or I think now called BOTTOM LINE Maintenance.  That is the original formula before the granular lineup improved and expanded.  Don't feel slighted, it is STILL a very powerful formula, 24% protein, 85.6 % of that 24% animal source protein.  Hard to believe, but NO modern manufacturer, regardless of what protein figure they throw at you can even compete with older Abady technology.   85.6% percent of the protein core being animal source is the difference.  Take a feed boasting say 46% protein.  Consider the apples, cranberries, cottage cheese and whatever other protein they can dream up, including GLUTEN, not even in the same ballpark with older Abady technology.  Numbers can be very deceptive and tricky and it is very easy to be fooled with all the smoke and mirrors and the marketing.  Strong concentrations of animal source protein within the protein core is what you want...not all the window dressing and flash.  Bottom Line Abady Maintenance is nothing to sneeze at at a good option for the budget conscious person.  If you are really interested, give them a call.  Chances are you won't find it in a local store but rather local distributors.  These are typically people operating kennels, training service, people involved in the show circuit etc.  I am in rural North Eastern Connecticut, closest big city is Providence, RI, about 40 minutes away.  I don't have to go that far and have 3 people all within a 20 minute drive.  You won't know unless you call.  Cheapest I found for my formula "classic'' is 65, where as another may charge 68.  I found the Internet to be the worst place to shop because they seem to more than the local people, then you have shipping cost as well.  Definitely try local first before considering Internet.

cc431

in fact you will never see Abady feeds listed at the WDJ.

No, you certainly won't.  Not as long as they use by-products. 

The only problem I see with Abady foods is the owners sense of his place in the world..  After your New Frontier post about Abady I did some googling about him.... Does not seem to play with a full deck.. but I don't know if you would understand what I am talking about.( just kidding)

Saying his food solves the issue of Hip Displaysia is quite the streach...  Good nutrition during development may delay the onset and give the dog a chance for a good life, but does not change genetics.  That's snake oil salesmanship...

I can't believe that his food is any better than Natura Evo .. and the fact your dog hunts means he need more nutrition. Some of the fat levels in Abady would make most dogs bigger than they already are. I see no reason to debate it's benefit to hunting dogs.. I can see where it would work... and on a younger dog I would try some of it... But my old Lab is heading near the end so I don't think it's beneficial to her. As far as small companies making it in America there  is a place for that.. Some knocked me he for saying Annamaet was a good food... but I bet not one of them tried it. Annamaet is not on the WDJ top list but it has been the best food I have fed in 11 years of my dogs life.(no gas issues either)

It's a wonderful thing for Mr. Abady to have such a satisfied customer.   You are better for his business than he is. Almost like an alter ego.

If you want a better food for you Hunting Dog try Annamaet Ultra....IMHO  it is way superior to Abady and costs less.(even if you need it shipped.)