Need HELP with food... Internal Rash food intolerance

Okay.... Louie just ate... and what you might ask... Royal Canin #30
 
Here are my thoughts... can you explain this one!
 
Max my Scottie can't eat chicken... he has IBD... and does great on Duck...
 
Louie had been on Duck for years... and now Royal Canin is Chicken.
 
My specialist says.... Duck ... Chicken... all the same thing... Okay so how can that be I ask? Iv researched till my head hurts and I notice that Science diet makes a duck for IBD/Colitis dogs...well we all see what that has done to Louie... He has been on Duck NB. Plus I buy ducks..skin them.. cook them... and added veggies....
 
If Louie LOVES the Royal Canine.. then Im staying here for now. I simply can't keep up with this stress of seeing him so hungry that he gets to the point of making him self so sick.....
 
I was in the laundry room and he followed me in there cause that is were he eats. I got the dry food and dumped it on the floor and spread it out... HE ATE
 
2 hours earlier he was so sick I could tell that he wouldn't get out of the car and wanted to just sleep in there.... then I got him out and in the house when he followed me to the laundry room.
 
Im open to your thoughts on this....but This is what Im going to do for now.
 
Kim

Okay----
I'm so glad he ate!  I am going to have to  respectfully disagree with your specialist on this one. Duck and chicken are not the same---they may be of the poultry family, but yet not the same.  I know plenty of dogs that can eat turkey, but not chicken, and vice versa, so I don't think you can lump them all under one umbrella.  For what its worth, Oscar can, and will, eat chicken and turkey but he won't touch duck, anymore. Go figure.
 
If your specialist did not test for a chicken allergy how can he/she make that generalization?  Hmmmm......
 
I say let Louie eat the RC-----it may well be the food for him---as I said, at some point you have to take a leap of faith and just do what feels right. 
 
 

I don't think duck and chicken are the same.  Turkey and chicken aren't the same.  Related, yes.  But, if there are dogs out there that can eat chicken, but not turkey - or vice versa - then it seems that there is something different about their protein.  At least this is my opinion --- but I have NOT researched it.  I just don't *think* they are the same.   But, that's just my opinion.  I hope I'm right about this so that Louie will be alright on it.
 
I'm glad he ate.  I don't know if taking the pred will "allow" him to eat something now that might cause problems later.  That is something to try and find out.
 
IF he seems to have a problem with the RC, then do they make a different protein that he might eat (since RC seems to make their food really good smelling to dogs)?
 
For now, I don't blame you for allowing the chicken.  He's got to eat and keep up strength.  IF it does develop problems, you could try the veggie kibbles for a short term - although it might not smell good enough to entice him to eat.
 
Or you could try adding chicken broth (an organic one with low salt) to the venison that he originally didn't eat.  If you heated up the broth and let the kibble soak in it --- then
 
1) it's going to smell better, and
 
2) it will be softer and he might like that softness (taking off on the "smushed" food texture that kmarie mentioned)
 
tzu mom,  I *think* the original protein source (chicken, in this example) gets processed into such small protein pieces (hydrolyzed) that the body doesn't recognize it for the protein source that it originally was.  It slips under the radar like it's a whole new protein.  That's my understanding.  It's as if  they take apart all the amino acids so the amino acids get fed more individually rather than "put together" in a form that makes up the meat.  That's how I look at in anyway.

Jessies_mom---

Maybe you can answer this for me. I know that the Hill's z/d diets have hydrolyzed chicken and hydrolyzed chicken liver in them, so if a dog is allergic to chicken, would that still be a problem? I guess my question would be how does the process of hydrolysis work? I'm off to do some research, but you seem to have such extensive knowledge on this allergy subject, with all you've been through, so I thought I'd pick your brain first. Thanks!

 
   I'm afraid there's slim pickin's where my brain is concerned []  According to the Hill's website, they use a hydrolyzed protein system that breaks animal proteins down and eliminates any possibility of allergic reactions to them.  I read that the proteins are broken down to what I *think* is the molecular level, so the dog's immune system doesn't recognize them as allergens; they also have hydrolyzed baby formulas so it's probably the same principle. I'm sorry about the  mistake I made about the RC; I thought you had said he was allergic to chicken. Jessie can eat duck and turkey but not chicken so whatever it is about food that causes a dog's system to react in a negative way must be different for different types of fowl. I sure hope he does okay on the RC; bless his heart; keep us posted.

Chasza and Jessies_mom---
 
Thanks for the explanation--that helps.

I'm glad he ate. I don't know if taking the pred will "allow" him to eat something now that might cause problems later. That is something to try and find out.

IF he seems to have a problem with the RC, then do they make a different protein that he might eat (since RC seems to make their food really good smelling to dogs)?

 
I agree about the pred... already thought about this too..
 
And Iv already researched the proteins in the RC that aren't the speciality foods and they are all chicken based...
 
Im going to talk to the specialist tomorrow about this pred routine... I don't like the idea and Im going to see if we can reduce the time he is on it by 1/2
 
Im sooooooooooooooooooooooooo GLAD you guys see this exactly the way I see it cause it help reaffirm what my gut is telling me about the chicken and the duck....

can eat duck and turkey but not chicken so whatever it is about food that causes a dog's system to react in a negative way must be different for different types of fowl. I sure hope he does okay on the RC; bless his heart; keep us posted.

 
BINGO ON THIS COMMENT!!! Try to tell a specialist and forget about it I look at this information just like you do when you grocery shop... pick and choose what you need and see how it works I have yet to meet a vet that knows much about diet... they just diagnose and then your on your own.

He just ate again.... I put warm water on his food and grated up some plain chicken breast...not much just a tiny bit....
 
If he acts hungry again in 3 hours I'll do it again. He only eats tiny amounts and then he stops... but it has to be on the floor and not in the bowl he has that bowl down to making him sick....poor guy.... what a mess.....
 
He will be completely off Metronidazole and the other antiobitic Saturday and only on pred from here on out till I get this figured out with the vet.
He had Clostridial Enteritis that needed to get under control so that was the need for those 2 antiobitics.
On his report he had Clostridium bacteria present and they don't know if it was a primary or secondary problem. Its kind like which came first. The chicken or the egg with Chlostridium.

I am not recommending you do this but I have to agree with tzu_mom that we can administer too many meds. I ended up stopping all meds for Monty. Some of the side effects of the meds made him worse. Some made him not have an appetite, others made him feel

 
What med's was monty on at the time? Very curious....

Terrierlover,
 
A couple of years ago I was at Target, and they had these plastic serving trays - about 13" by 20".   I actually bought these to put on my counter and put the dogs bowls in that came off the floor.  Something like that wouldn't resemble a food bowl, but would allow you to put messier things on it and be easier to hand wash than wiping down your floors after a canned meal or mushy food.      I'm so glad he ate again tonight.  I would imagine the warm water makes the food softer and might give him a different idea that he's not eating what used to make him sick.  Possibly? 
 
 

Okay I have to share this with you too.
 
About 2 weeks ago I stopped in my favorite store to pick up my lavender bath salts and they are all natural esential oil Lavender oil. I was telling the girls how much my Westie Louie loves laying by the tub when I take a lavender and Goes nuts about wanting to drink the water...
 
A--- its warm
B--- she told me that the salts are sodium bicarbonate which is very stoothing to the stomach... and that the lavender wouldn't bother  him one bit... and what he is doing is soothing his tummy.
 
I kid you not... You guys talk about some food being like doggie crack... Lavender bath water to Louie is the ultimate treat!!!
 
. Isn't that something....
 
I wish I could find something like this that would work cause I don't want him doing that...
 
I just hate this Pred idea but we need to get the inside of him calmed down..... He is drinking loads and feeling tight and its only been 4 days....
 
If you don't see me post for a bit its cause I have that surgery with Mattie tomorrow. She will spend the night but its a long drive. I have to leave extra early cause of the traffic to get there.
 
So please keep you comments coming....

Well,  I don't really think it's a good idea for him to drink the water.
 
I do agree that soaking in epsom salts can help the body remove toxins.  It always made me feel better when I was soaking to help detox from mecury overload.  I don't know if it would help, per se, in the stomach healing.  But, if he could soak in it --- and do please get a picture of that for us! LOL - I can see how it could help him detox stuff from all the stress he's been under, and by way of getting rid of "some" toxins, it helps his body overall to heal.  So, from that perspective, I get it.  But, ummm, thinking the drinking of the water is not a good idea......thinking that might be too much salt overload?......And, I would LOVE, LOVE to see him taking a relaxing soak in the epsom salts.  Now that would really be something.  I can picture it now!
 
I understand about hating the pred - but it does sound necessary.  Seems like using it short term will have far more benefits to his overall health than trying to skip it and taking longer for his stomach to heal.  Yeah, I really hate meds like that, too.  But, sometimes, they sure can be useful and necessary.  Just keep remembering that it's only short term - so that's good.     I don't understand about him feeling "tight" and it's only been 4 days.??? Sorry, I don't know what that means. 
 
I hadn't forgotten about your girls surgery.  I'm sure you and her will be on alot of people's minds tomorrow.  Do get to bed earlier and be careful on the way.  Please report back when you can.  It was said before by someone else,  but it really is worth repeating:    You are SUCH a good doggie mom!  You really are!!
 
Take care!!  {{{  HUGS  }}}

I understand about hating the pred - but it does sound necessary. Seems like using it short term will have far more benefits to his overall health than trying to skip it and taking longer for his stomach to heal. Yeah, I really hate meds like that, too. But, sometimes, they sure can be useful and necessary. Just keep remembering that it's only short term - so that's good. I don't understand about him feeling "tight" and it's only been 4 days.??? Sorry, I don't know what that means.

 
Okay ever over ate when eating Mexican food  bloated my be a better word...
 
As for him drinking the water I don't let him have much. I do have a pic but it would take me some time to find the pic on one of my unlabled disc I put a towel down on the edge of the tub and he falls sound to sleep. I will try to find it it adorable and he gets sleepy from the lavender smell
 
I'll hang in there with the Pred as much as I hate it.. When I went through this with my Scottie Max he truly had NO quality of life and I questioned myself as to what I was doing to him. Now you should see him... He is like the Energizer bunny. My husband said tonight that Max is making up for lost time...

You are SUCH a good doggie mom! You really are!!

Take care!! {{{ HUGS }}}

 
Thank you These little fuzz butts are my kids. The best kind to have. I just want the best for them and its so frustrating when you feel you can't achieve it....
 
Until tomorrow
 
paw hugs to you all...
OH... here I am so you know who your talking too. This is my story... I no longer rescue after 5 years of puppymills here in MO it took a toll on me... Frankly I have enough on my plate with my 5...
[linkhttp://www.westierescueofmissouri.com/rescue.htm]http://www.westierescueofmissouri.com/rescue.htm[/link]

Poor little Louie. You've got your hands FULL over there, Kim. I think I've got it rough, some days, and I've only got TWO dogs. You're a supermom!

I eat chocolate with lavendar in it, and drink lavendar tea. I crave it, when I'm getting migraines. It helps me, significantly. Maybe the lavendar is making his tummy feel better?

One thing that I can reccomend to you (that may save you a WHOLE lot of money---it has me) is energy testing (sometimes called muscle testing). If you can find someone--- anyone into alternative health, that will teach you to energy test, you can energy test your meds, supplements, AND food. Doing this, I don't feed anything that will upset thier stomachs (unless I'm stupid and don't think to test it first). I don't feed any supplements or meds that won't help. Sometimes, I'm shocked by what one of us needs. It works, though, if you can do it, and are willing to try it. Not everybody can energy test. It just doesn't work, for some people. On some days, I can't get ANYTHING to test, at all. Other days, I'm a testing fool[] I think it has to do with stress. Seems on my stressed days, my energy is frazzled, and I can't test stuff.