I bought--EEK--Iams

heh... I wouldn't be so sure... I always wondered where the venison meal came from that all the popular foods are using. Elk is farmed pretty regularly, and bison too, but not venison, at least not anywhere I've been. Anyone want to grab the number off their bag and ask if the venison is farm raised or not?? The fact that it could be roadkill really never occured to me...

Eek, I suggested the venison and pea IVD formula for an allergy cat today... I wonder where they get their venison from too... I wish all the ingredients and quality controls were more obvious... I mean, the only human food you have to wonder about it hot dogs...

Venison ain't just Bambi. It can also be elk, moose, caribou, and more.
 
Oh. Hm..that's what I thought, but then I just found something that says "The meat of elk and moose are not considered venison." [linkhttp://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-venison.htm]http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-venison.htm[/link]
 
But Wikipedia says I was right. [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venison]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venison[/link]
 
Hm again.

heh... I wouldn't be so sure... I always wondered where the venison meal came from that all the popular foods are using. Elk is farmed pretty regularly, and bison too, but not venison, at least not anywhere I've been. Anyone want to grab the number off their bag and ask if the venison is farm raised or not?? The fact that it could be roadkill really never occured to me...

Eek, I suggested the venison and pea IVD formula for an allergy cat today... I wonder where they get their venison from too... I wish all the ingredients and quality controls were more obvious... I mean, the only human food you have to wonder about it hot dogs...

A quick Google turned up that the majority of venison meal in the popular foods seems to come from New Zealand. The New Zealand Trade Directory listed the only exporter of venison meal as a place called Wilderness Foods Limited. Another business directory said that 95% of Wilderness Foods Limited's business was exporting, so basically that's all they do. I didn't get anywhere on the farming practices of Wilderness Foods Limited, but I'll look more tomorrow. Oh, and they also export lamb meal.

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

Pentobarbitol was found in foods over 10 years ago... they did the study again and found pentobarbitol in 3 foods instead of 40. Its no longer an issue. Euthanized pets are NOT found in pet foods.

Some old stories never die and someone always believes and repeats them and  gets others to believe , they repeat it and it goes on and on and sometimes gets worse with the telling.

10 years ago who knows. I do know that the FDA study was published in 2002 as per my link.

Edit; You know what Sandra. It is wrong of me to mess with your world view, and that's basically the only reason I'm posting in this thread now because it's not like I was thinking about using Iams or Purina or any of that stuff. So I apologize. I will stop messing with your world view.



Paula

FYI, I dont know what part the Canadian "boonies" your husband drives through, but I live in them and have driven, many a time through "moose mile"  this is a streach of highway in Alberta, a little north of Edmonton, that has some of the highest moose and deer accidents in Canada, and yes they do pay people to pick up the remains, of both large and small animals.  Where I live now, a city of 80,000, have seen deer one the highway well in city limits, granted I live in a very very green city and have seen deer many times accross the highway from where I work, and it got picked up within 45 minutes of when I saw it, because it was gone when DH went to work.  I have also followed the trucks from pork, beef and chicken rendering plants, they do take that stuff to other places for "processing", where is that?  Yep pet food plants. 


This is the ingredient list in the dog food I use, they love it, and it is totaly grain free:
Fresh chicken meat, chicken meal (low ash), turkey meal, steamed russet potato, fresh-caught Northern Whitefish, chicken fat, fresh whole eggs, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, tapioca, chicken broth, sunflower oil, flaxseed, Atlantic kelp, steamed carrots, spinach, peas and tomatoes, sun-cured alfalfa, apple fiber, psyllium seed, rosemary extract, yeast extract (MOS), glucosamine HCl, cranberries, black currants, chondroitin sulfate.

Pentobarbitol was found in foods over 10 years ago... they did the study again and found pentobarbitol in 3 foods instead of 40. Its no longer an issue. Euthanized pets are NOT found in pet foods.

[linkhttp://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/DFreport.htm]http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/DFreport.htm[/link]

[linkhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14719710&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_DocSum]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14719710&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_DocSum[/link]

   Thank you for this information Miss, I was going to try to research it but now I don't have to.
Everywhere on the Internet talks about the roadkill, euthanized pets, and penotbarbital but no one talks about the fact that most companies no longer have the pentobarbital in the food,  it would be nice if the  information out there would stay more current.[align=right] [align=right] [align=right] [align=right] [align=right]  
[align=right] 

An interesting article written by Randy Wysong says about 4-D and found on this link: [linkhttp://searchwarp.com/swa12040.htm]http://searchwarp.com/swa12040.htm[/link]

Also, consider this, one of the largest markets for 4D meat is racing greyhounds. Not only are 4D meats fed, they are fed raw. Would kennels that make their living on the athletic performance of their animals feed foods that diseased their superstars or did not create results? These owners could buy commercial concoctions not containing 4D meat at the same price or less, but they don't. There's a reason.

This is the ingredient list in the dog food I use, they love it, and it is totaly grain free:
Fresh chicken meat, chicken meal (low ash), turkey meal, steamed russet potato, fresh-caught Northern Whitefish, chicken fat, fresh whole eggs, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, tapioca, chicken broth, sunflower oil, flaxseed, Atlantic kelp, steamed carrots, spinach, peas and tomatoes, sun-cured alfalfa, apple fiber, psyllium seed, rosemary extract, yeast extract (MOS), glucosamine HCl, cranberries, black currants, chondroitin sulfate.

Ruffian, what food is this please.

Paula

Interesting article.
 
I think many people take comfort in thinking they are doing the best and feeding human grade meat.
Don't feels so comfy just yet, many animals are sick at the time of slaughter, most of them just don't show it.
A downed animal is an animal that can NOT walk anymore, that doesn't mean other animals still walking are not sick. Just think of the Mad Cow cases we have had, if one thinks those were the only cases, one is sadly mistaken.
 
Just recently has the slaughter industry cut out downed animals, and if you ask me, it still goes on here and there, just like the feed contamination problem won't be stamped out.

I do my best to feed Dweezil human grade premium foods ... but I have to be honest and say that some people take it a little far considering there is probably a whole lot of crap in our human food that is worse than the expensive stuff we're feeding our dogs. I'm not going to stop trying to give Dweezil the best, but I mean think of the dogs that are perfectly healthy and live to be 15-17 who eat nothing but grocery store brand (and there are very many of them) food and think of the fact that we're reading the labels on cans of dog food and then think of the additives in simple stuff like strawberry jam.
 
I think as long as we put forth some effort in feeding the better food, we need not be given nightmares about roadkill.
 
This is confusing considering that yes, we have to do our best, but we're all different people, and I'm sorry I have better things to think about after I do hours of research on dog food than to worry myself sick about what I'm not seeing at the darn food factory.
 
That said, I understand sandra posted, saying, rip it apart.

ORIGINAL: dyan

An interesting article written by Randy Wysong says about 4-D and found on this link: [linkhttp://searchwarp.com/swa12040.htm]http://searchwarp.com/swa12040.htm[/link]

Also, consider this, one of the largest markets for 4D meat is racing greyhounds. Not only are 4D meats fed, they are fed raw. Would kennels that make their living on the athletic performance of their animals feed foods that diseased their superstars or did not create results? These owners could buy commercial concoctions not containing 4D meat at the same price or less, but they don't. There's a reason.

I like that article overall Dyan... but this is some important corellary information... Raw foods, particularly 4-D meats are notorious for spreading salmonella. Also keep in mind this doesn't mean that grocery store food is any better, even lettuce can kill you these days.This study was done at the request of the breeding facility. They wouldn't have asked if there wasn't a major problem. I sure hope families with children aren't unknowingly adopting chronic salmonella shedders...

Evaluation of the association between feeding raw meat and Salmonella enterica infections at a Greyhound breeding facility.

[linkMorley>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Morley+PS%22%5BAuthor%5D]Morley PS[/link],

[linkStrohmeyer>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Strohmeyer+RA%22%5BAuthor%5D]Strohmeyer RA[/link],

[linkTankson>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Tankson+JD%22%5BAuthor%5D]Tankson JD[/link],

[linkHyatt>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Hyatt+DR%22%5BAuthor%5D]Hyatt DR[/link],

[linkDargatz>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Dargatz+DA%22%5BAuthor%5D]Dargatz DA[/link],

[linkFedorka-Cray>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Fedorka%2DCray+PJ%22%5BAuthor%5D]Fedorka-Cray PJ[/link]. Animal Population Health Institute, College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523, USA. OBJECTIVE: To investigate Salmonella enterica infections at a Greyhound breeding facility. DESIGN: Cross-sectional study. ANIMAL AND SAMPLE POPULATIONS: 138 adult and juvenile dogs and S. enterica isolates recovered from the dogs and their environment. PROCEDURES: The investigation was conducted at the request of a Greyhound breeder. Observations regarding the environment and population of dogs were recorded. Fecal, food, and environmental specimens were collected and submitted for Salmonella culture. Isolates were serotyped and tested for susceptibility to 16 antimicrobials. Isolates underwent genetic analyses by use of pulsed-field gel electrophoresis and ribotyping. RESULTS: S. enterica was recovered from 88 of 133 (66%) samples of all types and from 57 of 61 (93%) fecal samples. Eighty-three (94.3%) of the isolates were serotype Newport, 77 (87.5%) of which had identical resistance phenotypes. Genetic evaluations suggested that several strains of S. enterica existed at the facility, but there was a high degree of relatedness among many of the Newport isolates. Multiple strains of Salmonella enterica serotype Newport were recovered from raw meat fed on 1 day. CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: S. enterica infections and environmental contamination were common at this facility. A portion of the Salmonella strains detected on the premises was likely introduced via raw meat that was the primary dietary constituent. Some strains appeared to be widely disseminated in the population. Feeding meat that had not been cooked properly, particularly meat classified as unfit for human consumption, likely contributed to the infections in these dogs.

ORIGINAL: willowchow

Sandra--My experience has been that most canned fomulas are better than the dry version of the same brand. 

I think for the most part when food is discussed it's the dry they are comparing and conversing over, not the canned.  So, that's probably why what you're looking at and what you've read don't jive.  [sm=2cents.gif]

Lori

Absolutely.  There is not as big of a difference between canned foods among different brands, and that is because there are a lot less grains in canned vs. dry and the food is preserved by the canning process, so no preservative issues.  For me personally, the only thing that bothers me in the ingredients is the "meat" broth.  The possibilities of what "meat" could be are way too inclusive for me to feel comfortable with it.

 This paper supposedly by a Harvard law student was mentioned on a blog I was reading yesterday .I haven't had the time to slog through it yet, but skimming through it, he talks about rendering plants a bit.
http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/784/Patrick06.html

Around here, it is road kill city no matter where I am.I live in the country, but I go into a large city weekly for shopping, and there's no shortage there either.Deer, rabbit, possum, skunks, tons of cats, etc.
 Many a time I've followed the highway dept guys and their orange flatbed truck waiting to be able to pass them by when I was heading down a road toward one particular town. Most of the time there are 2 guys walking behind with a shovel scooping roadkill.The back of the truck also lowers for deer carcasses not taken by those that hit them.I watched them pushing a bloated deer carcass onto the back of one several times last summer.I have no idea what they did with them.I don't see them out in the wintertime.

 

Also keep in mind this doesn't mean that grocery store food is any better, even lettuce can kill you these days.

Yes, the past couple of months showed that to us...first the recalled all spinach,,,couldn't find ANY in the stores. Then a few week later it was lettuce.  THAT sure changed my way of thinking about certain foods! But I have never felt very good about raw feeding.  Just my feeling of insecurity!

FWIW, I got my info about unregulated "meat" and 4D animals from The Dog Food Project. If you want to learn more about "Mordanna"/Sabine's credentials, her bio is on her site: [linkhttp://www.betterdogcare.com/about.html]http://www.betterdogcare.com/about.html[/link] It states that she was educated in animal nutrition, physiology, and disease, and has a certification in animal care. It's fine & understandable to question her information if you want, but I think it's fairly obvious that her site is a step above the level of mere internet rumor. She is not a raw-only fanatic or affiliated with any brand, and does not tend to take a sensationalistic approach to commercial dog food... she never posts internet rumors without fact-checking them.