Lite diets??

Sandra can i give you my honest view of lite diets and other foods of that calibre and why i think like i do ,without you getting upset or thinking everything i say is personal,because what i want to say is not meant to be personal? I would also like to ask the rest of you to not make any smart arse comments about my post and try and stir up crap about it?

I wont post until i get your reply [sm=happy.gif]

   I agree with you about the lite diets Jennie; I think they're just a marketing gimmick. Jessie was on a Nutro lite diet for almost 2 years and didn't lose weight, even when I fed her a lot less than recommended for her size. She had a thyroid panel done at Michigan State University and it was normal. I finally changed her to a food where meat meal was the first ingredient, in this case lamb meal. I fed her 25% less than what was recommended on the bag, ( I had read in a book that if you feed less than that the dog may not get enough nutrients), and even though it was more calories than she had been getting before, she lost a pound a week, ten pounds total. Most lite diets have a grain as the first ingredient, which makes the food cheaper to produce, but they charge more for it. Grains are carbohydrates and dogs do not use carbohydrates for energy as well as we do, they use fat for energy. In a dog, carbohydrates are stored as fat, which explains why Jessie had trouble losing weight on the lite food.

I've heard of more than a few dogs who have gained or maintained their over weightness on lite foods.Grains/carbs being the predominant ingredients just makes no sense to me,because as you said jessiesmom dogs cant use them and they are stored as fat.

I always suggest pasta,rice etc for dogs who need to GAIN weight,i would never feed grains to a dog that needs to lose it!

Hey, I have no problem seeing other folks ideas, opinions and views about different things.  What I have a problem is when someone (and this was not you) takes a quote from Glenda and then posts  "People who are truely educated and well informed pay attnetion to studies and don't walk around w/their head in sand." Glenda and I had both posted doubts about a study that had been posted, so I suspect I was included in that even tho it was Glenda's quote she used.  And telling Dyan to butt out when Dyan as much right to post her opinion as any one else.  Also I could tell some were very hurt over the remarks about them using SD RX when that is what is keeping their dog alive.  I do not like to see people hurt.
 
Please do post you opinions, and also check out what I wrote on the  THEY SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO MAKE THIS STUFF  thread.  One other point, when ProHeart6 (down there you use the 12 months version) came out I was told it was perfectly safe.  It wasn't for my Hunter, it killed him,  I should have never switched him from Interceptor to proHeart6 just because it was suppose to be better.  Since that time, i go with what is working for my dogs. 
 
In case you didn't see it, i was born in Perth,  Western Australia back in '45.  Mom was a war bride.  But I have lived in the states ever since '46, but still have kin down in perth that i am in contact with, and also a cyber friend I met on the one of the dog health boards.
 
Gotta go feed my babies their kibble, chicken hearts and veggies.  Heart should be cooked by now.  will check back later.

I'm going to post- but I hope this doesn't sound rude- I don't intend it to.  I'm hormonal, 18wks pregnant with a sinus infection and with a busy toddler and deployed dh so a bit frazzled.
 
I don't like lite foods.  I have tried Nutro lite and Innova lite and my dogs after only a month lost coat- the bichons are minimal shedders but when I brushed them, coat came out in clumps.  They remained chubby.  Switch to a regular adult food and feed less, viola! Beautiful coats, better weight.
 
I too supplement occasionally with people food.  I also rotate several different brands that work well for my dogs.  I wouldn't choose to use Fit N Trim or similar because they just dont' work for my dogs. No big deal.  If someone else has good success with a certain food, great! Keep doing what you're doing.
 
I once was a strict Volhard raw diet feeder and advocate. If you fed any kind of kibble at all, you were killing your dogs- forget about cooked foods, those were 'dead' too.  I've lightened up over the years significantly, thankfully. 
I've had to resort to just kibble at times- and lo and behold- the dogs did just fine.  I can't really tell a difference in them at all between raw, homecooked or the certain kibbles I've found which really work for them.  I really find that my lifestyle works best with kibble/canned combo and recently for the last couple of months have been using Bil=Jac frozen for them.  Still doing great.  I no longer shun any type of diet.
 
So I guess I want to say- if your dog is doing well on the diet you provide, that's great!  Be it raw, cooked, kibble or a combination, great!
 
What's more important to me is that the dog is warm, safe and loved for it's entire life.
 
Debate about dog food doesn't really surprise me. Look around on any other message board- for instance, the topic of "to breastfeed or formula feed" and it's pretty well the same. The dog food boards I have to say are much tamer in contrast to those baby boards. 
 
People are passionate about their kids, whethere they have 2 feet or 4.
Do the best you can for them, don't worry so much and just love them.

A new baby, that is great.  Heck, my "baby" will be 37 in Oct. 5, my older son will be 40 on Sept. 30.  Second one was due on first ones' birthday, but was 5 days late.  Was 9 pounds, 5 1/2 ounces.  The grand kids, Zack will be 7 July 30, Becki will be 5 Sept. 6 (oldest son's kids) and Maddie will be 3 on Friday.   Where does time time.

Thanks Sandra.  I know, time does fly.  My first son is already 2 years old! It doesnt' seem that long ago that he was so tiny.
 

Jennie, great work on Teenie's weight loss. What a great sucess story!

Thanks, Lazlowe! It's been incredible to watch her transform. She's a totally different dog, now. Going a little bit hungry doesn't bother her half as much as those ten pounds did!

Everybody's probably gone to bed by now,i'm so sorry this has taken so long,a short trip to the shops ended up taking hours!

OK so here goes.If i'm to be honest,firstly i feel sorry for the dogs that have to eat products like fit and trim,there is nothing in those foods that even closely resemble what a canine should be eating,the manufacture's of these foods  are gems/goldmines for the grain and rendering companies because they can sell the stuff to them that they would otherwise throw away. When i harp on to people who feed these foods i think deep down that maybe if i go on hard enough and strong enough they may look into better foods.One thing i have learnt over the years is that softly and sweetly and sugarcoating this particular subject doesnt seem to work!Maybe the head on way doesnt either,LOL.I cant seem to find a middle ground.

My main thought is for the dogs,admittedly the owners feelings come second,i feel so strongly and passionately about good nutrition that nothing else matters until this is right! Without proper nutrition everything else wont work properly,it's like putting a cheap oil in your car for years and years,that car will break down quicker than the car who has top quality oil put in it,the former will never run to the best of it's ability because it's running on cheap crap.

How many times have i heard "if it aint broken,dont fix it" or "My dog is doing great on this food",with the former,we are talking about living breathing beings,not a car,i would rather not wait till somethings broke,because by then the disease is often so deep seated it's too late,by the time a disease actually shows itself on the outside more often than not the damage is irreversible on the inside.And the latter,once these people change to a quality food they realise their dogs werent doing so great after all!

I have a very nutrition savvy vet,she  hates brands like Purina and all the other grocery store stuff.She performed an autopsy on a 5 year old dog who died of liver disease(the owners euthanised him),this dog was fed on a purina,of all things,she told me this dog had the organs of a 15 year old dog,he was only 5! His precious system worked quadruple as hard for all those years trying to rid itself of the toxins and "foreign" materials found in this food,his liver worked harder than it should have to flush the crap out(sorry,not real scientific) and was twice the size it should have been,his pancreas worked overtime to try and digest food it just wasnt designed for,his kidneys were also damaged,his body was riddled with benign tumours,inside and out.My vet 100% puts it down to the poor quality of food this dog was made to eat,she has seen it 100 times before [&:]

IMHO NO dog should be made to eat foods like this,all the fresh food additons in the world are not going to counteract the effects these foods inevitably have on their systems. I agree no one food has everything every dog needs,but some come much closer than others,fresh living foods are a must for ALL dogs,but they cant make up for a poor quality base product.

So,my main motivation is because i feel bad for the dogs eating these "waste products" and somehow hope the owners dont know any better and are willing to listen and change to MY way of thinking,LOL [8D]

Sandy you're the same age as my mum,and i wonder if that has something to do with why you feed this food,i dont mean this in a mean way,people of your generation sometimes are set in their ways and arent as hip to change as the younger folk,and most likely people over their forties fed foods such as purina to their dogs when they were younger and the tradition just carries on,why not,their dogs lived healthily well into their teens,but were they really healthy,were people as observant about these things back then? Also purina,SD et all were much better foods back then,before the big money hungry clonglomerates took them over!

My stomach does a flip flop,seriously, when i read someone feeds a bad food,i cant help it,i instantly feel for the dog and want to make it better for him.Reading the ingredients of fit and trim,i just cant fathom how any dog would want to eat it,it is just soy,grains and very little if any at all meat,it reminds me more of a cows feed.But as we all know dogs will eat just about anything just because its there,just because a dog eats something doesnt mean it's good for him or even that he particularly likes it,it's just in their nature to scoff it down.

Sandra dont you wonder,if you're dogs are doing as well as you say on fit and trim,how outstanding they would do on a super premium food?And i'm sure they would so much appreciate it too[] Please correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've gleaned off of your posts your dogs have had a myriad of health problems,have you ever thought the food could be contributing to this.Could your dog who died of the proheart injection perhaps survived had his immune system been stronger? Thats another thing these types of food denegrate,the immune system,good solid nutrition is so important when it comes to this all important function.

One of my biggest fears is my dogs dying of something i could have so easily prevented.I never want to be sitting in the vets office while my dog is dying of cancer or some other horrible disease wondering,if only,if only i had have given her top notch nutrition,foods that her body could easily digest and use,foods her body was perfectly designed to utilise,not something that her body had to work to digest and struggle to excrete. I know that if one of my dogs does get a disease like this it wont be because of the inferior foods i was feeding.

I used to own rotties,they were fed completely on raw foods.Long story short,one of my guys went to live with friends of ours,they fed him on science diet and whatever was cheapest at the grocery store,Less than 2 years later he had dropped dead of cancer.I owned his siblings and there were no dogs in his lineage that had died of cancer before him or after.I blame his death solely and squarely on the terrible food he was made to eat,and i will never,ever forgive myself for sending him there or for accepting what they fed him,i should have insisted they followed on with my diet or found other owners that would have!

So,like i said my main motivation is the dogs and to hopefully see them on a food that has more than the minimum nutrients,less of the colours,additives and cancer causing preservatives and onto something healthier and more suitable for their species.

There are so many more things i could probably say,but i shall leave it here for now.I know how much i hate reading long posts [8D]

I have found that chatting with people in normal conversation is far more effective than beating them over the head with my opinions.
 
Recently I returned the beagle pup that lives behind me to her home.  Her mom was shocked at how well she walked on leash with me, since according to her, walking this pup is a tug of war.  She asked how I'd done it and I laughed and told her after walking STRONG gsds a beagle pup was a piece of cake, but also told her, I TALKED to her the whole mile walk to her house.  I simply kept her beagle attention focused on ME and praised the living daylights out of her for NICE walking.  Later that afternoon I saw the whole family out for a stroll to the subdivision, and I could see moms mouth moving non-stop...and the pup wasn't pulling.
 
As we were chatting mom kept telling the little one NO....I said to Mitzi, honey tell your momma that when she tells you NO you don't know what she WANTS you to do.....mom immediately asked what she SHOULD say.  I gave her some ideas and she was VERY open to my suggestions.  She said, well, yeah, when I say NO she does look at me like she's wondering what I want.
 
Mom brought up food....she asked me about Nutro Max.  Now this isn't a food I'd feed, but it isn't a BAD food.  After we talked about what our PARENTS used to feed, we talked about how the foods have changed over the years....how Purina, for example, used to be a decent food, but is now owned by a HUMAN food company that uses dog food as a way to get rid of human food waste, I told her how best to understand a dog food label and what to look for in ingredients.  She wrote down the websites I could remember off the top of my head to do her OWN research.  When she asked what I fed, I told her what and where she could find it and explained about kcals.  Two days later DS reported that she'd come in for a bag of Innova.
 
I never talked down to this gal.  I treated her with respect and used our shared love of dogs, and her obvious uncertainty of what to do when with the pup to open up a line of communication.   I made very clear that I'm not an expert on anything, and used the old "just an old broad with a LOT of dog experience" and she was VERY open to everything that I had to say to her.  She listened and she learned.  And her pup will benefit from that.  That's what matters...that the dog sees the benefit of the owner being willing to listen.
 
Had I beaten her bloody with my opinions, she wouldn't have listened.  When she apologized for the pups frequent visits, I told her the truth....I don't care if she comes to see me....I adore pups....my ONLY concern is that my big brutes will scare her out into the road and that she'll be hit by one of the many speeding cars on our road.  This gal KNEW that I had only the pups best interest at heart and because of that, she listened.
 
I'm not exactly a spring chicken, but I embraced learning about nutrition....and I doubt that Sandra is so old that she refuses to be open minded either.  Heck, my 82 year old Mother has learned about animal nutrition and is much more open to whats good and bad in dog foods....not because I've raged at her, but because of my quiet and steadfast belief that I'm doing what is absolutely RIGHT for my dogs.  And she gets it....and she gets that it's better to pay 40 bucks for a bag of food that will last a week than 20 three times to feed for the same amount of time.
 
More flies with honey..........

there have been quite a few scientific studies showing that dogs fed high-protein low carb diets lose body fat and retain muscle, while dogs fed these commercial "lite" diets lose more body muscle than fat, dogs on both diets losing weight. I've posted links to these diets before, and am feeling too tired to do so again.
The person who is feeling attacked for feeding one of these diets-- well, you're not really feeding it are you? your supplementing with fresh protein and veggies. And the dogs respond to it. Frankly, it's probably better for dogs to eat a less-than-premium kibble plus fresh foods than to eat only a premium kibble.

What's more important to me is that the dog is warm, safe and loved for it's entire life.

 
I think this is the final truth!  The end result is what matters most.
While I feel that everyone has a right to their own opinions, and I feel that the message boards are here to share those opinions, they are just that---our own opinions.    
I feel to tell someone they are from different generation and that is why they still feed the old way, is a disgrace in my opinion.  That dog that died from cancer two years after you gave it away might well have died anyway, or it might have even died of cancer in one year if you still kept it. Sometimes cancer takes a while to manifest itself. Sometimes  smoking gives a person cancer that shows up two years after they quit smoking.  Again, it is your opinion to do what you think is best, and that is the same with my opinion and everyone elses,,,including Sandra who knows exactly what she is doing, no matter WHAT generation she is from.
 

Dyan, I couldn't agree more.  No matter how its cloaked, rudeness is still rudeness.
 
Maybe us old geezers who are uneducated and too old and stubborn to learn should just start our own forum??  Then we won't annoy the young people who are so innovative and smart.......

I actually thought Sandra was quite progressive what with her cooking hearts and all! 

I've said this before, people need to THINK before they post sometimes!  Christine-You're post is all about YOU, how you feel, there is an "I" every few words, it's not ALL about you and you're feelings, think of how you're speaking to others.