Kibbles N Bits

But it IS true, even by the article you posted "Presently, it is assumed that the pentobarbital residues are entering pet foods from euthanized, rendered cattle or even horses

 
I'm sorry, I meant to write that it doesn't seem to be true about what people/companies are saying about putting euthanized pets and ROADKILL in dog food,,,I accidentally said "and farm animals!" Duh!  My mistake by not paying attention to what I was writing...of course the article DOES say that it is presumed to be euthanized farm animals.

ORIGINAL: dyan

I do agree with you Luv,,, actually my favorite farm animal is a pig...I love them. 
But I guess its our American way to feed farm animals...a practice that some people don't believe in or do. Certainly it saddens me when I think of it...I love and feel for all animals. 
But I guess when a farm animal if brought into this life for this reason it seems a little different then killing a pet dog.   But of course the conversation is not about animals in general, its about euthanized pets and farm animals in dog food which is something that was said by a few people/companies and doesn't seem to be true.

 
Yup, it is very common practice for certain animals to be slaughtered for food in this country, most of us just grow up seeing it as normal.....  I guess it really comes to down to individual belief systems. The Amish view dogs as livestock, therefore they see nothing wrong with housing and breeding them as livestock. It just makes me sad that what most people feel is abhorrent treatment for dogs is erfectly acceptable for feed animals. It really is a whole other topic though... and I'm a complete hypocrite because I'm not even a vegetarian. [:-]

I'm actually getting ready to order Ben some beaver dog food , so I obviously don't have a problem with road kill (little critters) per se!

I'm a control freak and I just don't like the idea of not knowing at least somewhat, what's in there.  I like specific protein sources to be listed so if my dog has a problem, I at least have a place to start.  I've never fed Ben anything other than this type of food so when I suspected chicken, I was able to think back and remember, yes, he was worse when I was feeding almost exclusively chicken (as I was last summer).

I'm trying to imagine how pentobarb gets in the feed if not by pets - they euth horses that way, and my vet would euth one of my sheep that way if I asked her, but I'd never ask unless I needed a post mortem (autopsy) done, because I euth my own sheep and process them for the dogs.  Most of my sheep friends do likewise and dispose on their property somehow.  The cattle people I know shoot and compost usually.  Chicken people definitely compost - it's the law (chicken compost is like gold for your garden if you ever get a chance to get some, if you can stand the smell).

So, there's a few pet cattle/sheep/goats/horses, perhaps?  That makes me wonder how very persistent pentobarbital IS, if it is detectable through just a few sources.  I would not take the chance of feeding my dog such a persistent drug over time, thanks - the persistence of moxidectrin is the probable reason it caused problems for dogs via ProHeart6.

Another problem I have is that one of the reasons meat is condemned for human consumption is death within drug withdrawal periods.  Steroids, various antibiotics, diuretics (used for treating pneumonia), topical antiseptics - all these have withdrawal periods of from 30 to 90 days.  Animals are condemned which are killed or die within those guidelines.

Condemned meat is really kind of gross and scary.  I know it's rendered but it HAS been proven that prions, for instance, are stable through the rendering process.  One reason sheep can be condemned is if they cannot be proven to be free of prion exposure (through eating animal protein, or the farm not being registered in the scrapie program).  I believe the same is true of cattle and other ruminants.  Sheep carcasses are also condemned if they see signs of various diseases and again I'm sure it's true of other animals.  Ick.

I just was talking to my hubby, a cross country truck driver, about road kill in dog food and he busted out laughing..    He averages 10,000 miles a month on the road from  coast to coast, border to border, and  into Canada.   He said  he doesn't see enough road kill in a month to feed our 3 dogs for a week.  And he has never once seen a truck driving a long with guys jumping out and scraping up flat, geasy spots that use to be a rabbit or skunk.  He cracked up adding that NOBODY in their right mind is going to drive several hundred miles a day to pick up maybe half a dozen dead rabbits, skunks, coons, etc to take to a dog food making plant and get a couple of dollars for them.
 
Now if my husband, who is on the road for up to 4 weeks at a time, driving 600-700 miles a day,  day after day after day doesn't see enough road kill in a month to feed our dogs for a week, then I find it  highly unlikely --no impossible--to worry about road kill in our dog food.  And to be honest, I doubt there ever was road kill in our dogs' food.  Oh, once my hubby hit a deer and the highway patrol that came up took the deer to donate to a needy family.  Seems some people get more road kill that our dogs!
 
Now maybe I am wrong, but I will take my husbands word about lack of enough road kill to make dog food over some thing someone wrote about many years ago, problably a compeditor of the company that was supposed to be using road kill.

How? Those cattle and horses are euth'ed with the same chemicals, only more of them, and those cattle and horses could have been somebody's pets... I really don't see any difference at all other than the gross out factor of it being 'cats' and 'dogs'.

 Cattle are euthanized by touching a prod to thier head that sends a lethal dose of electricity to thier brain. I've seen it on a program about meat processing; they drop in thier tracks. Chickens are killed at the processing plant; a machine cuts them open or cuts thier head off; I forgot exactly how, but it's not done with chemicals and it's not as humane as the way cattle are killed.

... and I'm a complete hypocrite because I'm not even a vegetarian. [:-]
 
Yes, I feel the same.   I feel horrible about the animals..but haven't  done a thing about not eating them.  I remember years ago being at our county fair on the last day of the fair....the kids were sitting in the stalls with their beloved Cows, Pigs,,,etc. crying and sobbing because the "winniers" were being picked up by the restaurant or company that bought them in the auction.   That sure stuck with me.

ORIGINAL: jessies_mom

Cattle are euthanized by touching a prod to thier head that sends a lethal dose of electricity to thier brain. I've seen it on a program about meat processing; they drop in thier tracks. Chickens are killed at the processing plant; a machine cuts them open or cuts thier head off; I forgot exactly how, but it's not done with chemicals and it's not as humane as the way cattle are killed.

I think that's only cattle that are processed for human food, since chemical euthanization isn't allowed (thanks Becca for that information). But others must be euthed with the chemicals, since the study determined the residue to be coming from cattle and/or horses.

ORIGINAL: dyan

Yes, I feel the same.   I feel horrible about the animals..but haven't  done a thing about not eating them.  I remember years ago being at our county fair on the last day of the fair....the kids were sitting in the stalls with their beloved Cows, Pigs,,,etc. crying and sobbing because the "winniers" were being picked up by the restaurant or company that bought them in the auction.   That sure stuck with me.

When I was in fourth grade someone at the school had the brilliant idea to take a field trip to the JC Potter sausage plant. We went all the way through, from the pens to package, including the stunning, hanging, and skinning. That was pretty traumatic for a fouth grader.

I think that's only cattle that are processed for human food, since chemical euthanization isn't allowed (thanks Becca for that information). But others must be euthed with the chemicals, since the study determined the residue to be coming from cattle and/or horses.

 
  I thought the beef in dog food was what was left after they removed the parts that humans ate. I can't believe they would take any grammer school kids, let alone ones as young as fourth graders, to see animals stunned, hanged, and skinned. Wonder what the parents thought about it?

That's where "by-products" come from, but animals that are condemned for human consumption end up at rendering plants, and that's where the animal fat, digest and unspecified meals come from (I think).

I don't know that any parents knew beforehand exactly what they were going to show us. My mom was un-impressed to say the least, but she called it a learning experience. It certainly was [:'(] [:'(]

  Do the "named" meat meals such as lamb and beef come from these rendering plants too, from animals condemned for human consumption? I thought when a pet food company said they didn't use 4D meats it meant the consumer didn't have to worry about phenobarbital residue.
   Did you eat supper that day?[:'(]

I don't think a rendering plant would produce a specific meal, because they just throw everything in together. I'm sure if a company says it isn't using 4D  their products don't come from there. [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_rendering]From Wikipedia[/link]

Rendering is an industrial process that converts waste animal tissue into stable, value-added materials. The majority of tissue processed comes from slaughterhouses but also includes restaurant grease and butcher shop trimmings. This material can include the fatty tissue, bones, and offal, as well as entire carcasses of animals condemned at slaughterhouses, and those that have died on farms (deadstock), in transit, etc. The most common animal sources are beef, pork, sheep or poultry.

The rendering process simultaneously dries the material and separates the fat from the bone and protein. A rendering process yields a fat commodity (yellow grease, choice white grease, bleachable fancy tallow, etc.) and a protein meal (meat & bone meal, poultry byproduct meal, etc.). 

No! And I didn't eat meat for several months.

ORIGINAL: dyan

... and I'm a complete hypocrite because I'm not even a vegetarian. [:-]

Yes, I feel the same.   I feel horrible about the animals..but haven't  done a thing about not eating them.  I remember years ago being at our county fair on the last day of the fair....the kids were sitting in the stalls with their beloved Cows, Pigs,,,etc. crying and sobbing because the "winniers" were being picked up by the restaurant or company that bought them in the auction.   That sure stuck with me.

That's so sad. [] I'm glad I'm not the only one here that feels awful for the animals, yet hasn't done a thing about it. I think it would be different if I actually saw the animals I was going to eat being killed, but as is, the process is so far removed when I get a steak from the grocer's freezer or chicken quesadillas at Applebees... But, I'm hijacking the thread so I'll zip it.
 
Edited for typos

I don't think a rendering plant would produce a specific meal, because they just throw everything in together. I'm sure if a company says it isn't using 4D their products don't come from there. From Wikipedia

 
 Thanks Kelly. I don't blame you at all for not wanting to eat meat for awhile.[:'(][:'(]

A few years ago, I wrote a letter to the  editor about banning the leg hold trap in Ohio. IT made the newspaper and because of it I was sent mail from every "save the animal" group in the state.  One was told all about veal and how  the baby calves are treated etc ete etc.  I didn't know any of that at the time.  Well a few weeks later I went grocery shopping and was checking out the meat...got to the veal section and picked up a package,,,and was checking it out...and all of a sudden I remembered that brochure,,, I got really hot and sick and had to run out of there. I mean RUN!