Kibbles N Bits

    • Gold Top Dog

    Kibbles N Bits

    Years ago we fed my cocker spaniel kibbles n bits for quite some time until he got as bit sick off of it and my mom found out that kibbles n bits has actually killed off some dogs is this true?Has anyone had a dog get sick/die f rom it? Am I just being rediculous? My *** spaniel was diagnosed with lukemia a couple years ago.  After we found out the truth about kibbles n bits we swicthed to purina,this was before I did some research in to kibble I know have a 3 month old chihuahua who has recently switched from purina to eagle pack,my question is does the kibble he was on have anything to do with him getting leukemia,even the slightest bit? This may seem like an absolutely retarted question but I'm curious. I'll check this thread when I get back from a trip Sunday night.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I wouldn't place the blame of your dogs cancer solely on the kibbles and bits...never blame yourself. I don't recommend kibbles & bits as it does contain very poor ingredients and sugars and preservatives.
    Different animals and people have different triggers for cancer, for example some people smoke & eat unhealthy fast foods their entire lives and never get lung cancer or other cancers yet the person getting the second hand smoke or due to environmental toxins develops lung cancer even tho they have eaten healthy all their lives. Most times it is genetic and runs in lines.
    One of our Newf's died of bone cancer, we too fed him a poor quality food- eukanuba....at the time we didn't know any better. We don't blame the food on his cancer...we learned from that tho and now feed only the best foods, with as many organically grown fresh produce and meats possible.
    We try to make sure we limit the amount of commercially grown foods to avoid too many pesticides in our dogs diets. We avoid any foods that have non doggy food items in them such as BHA, animal fat (you just don't know where that has come from...diseased animals etc.). I like to deal with good dog food companies who stand behind their foods, use real food sources...try to use as many organic foods and state they use free range animals, new Zealand lamb (about the only place the lambs are virtually pesticide, antibiotic etc free). I avoid any foods that use generic foods or farmed fish....or unknown fish such as white fish etc. I check the companies I use and make sure the salmon etc they use have not been preserved with Ethoxyquin.
    Here is a site you can check out on food ingredients to avoid.
    [link>http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients]>http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients[/link]
    Other than diet and choosing foods free of weird ingredients and left over's from the human food industry. I also don't over vaccinate my dogs, I have given them their basic vaccines and now I just do titers. Vaccines can really stress the immune system leaving a dog vulnerable to cancer. I don't use any chemicals on my lawn or pesticides in my yard. I don't smoke, I have well water which is free of chloride and fluoride. Make sure there is no history of cancer in your dogs lines if you are in the market for a new puppy.
    I am currently feeding grain free foods as well. Aflatoxin which is a potent carcinogen even in safe levels...grows on corn, rice and other grains. Sometimes it can be excess in dog dibbles with grains and kills...most times it is in safe levels in dog foods containing grain. I choose to steer clear and will only feed organic brown/wild rice made in my own kitchen with a raw meal. Another carcinogen found in grain based foods is acrylamide and is found almost every where in pre-made foods including human pre-made foods. Acrylamide is a tasteless, invisible by product formed when high carbohydrate foods are fried or baked at high temperatures.
    I also avoid topical pesticides etc. The only time I would use any pesticides on my dogs or allow them to ingest them is if I lived in an area where heart worm was a threat. As it is I don't put any pesticides on my dogs...and since my dogs have a healthy immune system they are not a preferred host for fleas.
    The list goes on for possible cancer triggers, a home prepared diet where you know how the meats were raised and veggies/ fruits is the best diet...but, not always feasible for most. By educating yourself you will find there are some great dog kibbles/canned foods out there that stand behind their ingredients and state they use human grade, or organically raised grown foods.

    What I suggest is picking up a few books, do research and make informed choices.  
    Some suggested reading is:  The whole dog journal, All you ever wanted to know about herbs for pets-MaryWulff-Tilford and Gregory Tilford.  Complete Herbal handbook for the dog and cat by Juliette de Bairacli, Dr Pitcairns's complete guide to Natural health for dogs and cats - richard h pitcairn DVM. PhD, See Spot live longer by Beth Taylor and Steve Brown.  There are more great books out there.[;)
    • Gold Top Dog
    It certainly could. I believe purina contributed to the lymphoma one of my dogs died from. Corn is often contaminated with low levels of aflatoxin, which is a carcinogen. Feed your dog the same food day after day after day with that low level of carcinogen, well, over time chronic exposure is going to cause cancers in some unlucky dogs.
    Even if the food doesn't actually contain toxins suboptimal nutrition over time strongly contributes to the diseases and disorders of old age, including cancer.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Additionally, often the "meat byproducts" come from rendering plants.  Rendering plants get all the roadkill, the 4D market animals (cows, etc) and yes, sometimes euthanized pets.  So while it's important to switch to a higher quality food, and Purina isn't one of them, don't beat yourself up for what you didn't know.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Unfortunately, our dogs are going to get sick. Honestly I have read right here on this forum, as many dogs get sick eating premium food as the ones that get sick eating grocery store food.  We do what we think is best to try to avoid their diseases and illnesses but they do get them anyway.  I had a pitbull that had lived to about 16 yrs old on food like Kibbles N Bits,,, Gainsburgers,,,and frozen BilJac.   Most everyone back in those days fed that kind of food. I hear more about dogs dying of cancer now then then back then.  Several people on this forum feed their dogs Purina and their dogs and thriving and healthy.   Don't blame yourself .   
    My favorite "doggy bible" is the Great Dane Lady website.
    [linkhttp://www.greatdanelady.com/articles.htm]http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles.htm[/link]    There is a section on Cancer there with a few articles. You might want to read them,,,there might be some information or help.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I do not believe that the food has anything to do with the dogs and cancer.  In my 61 years I have had to many dogs live healthy, active lives beyond their life expectancy....on Purina Dog Chow.  Our dogs got rabies and distemper vax and that was it.  Today they are pumping all kinds of vax into them.  They get flea & tick stuff put on them, heartworm pills ( which are totally necessary here on the Texas coast.)    I lost my 12 1/2 year old Irish Setter to bone cancer 9 years ago and I do not for one second think the Purina Dog Chow he ate for 12 years casued it.  I do know that Proheart6, the 6 month heartworm preventative injection, not Purian Dog Chow,  caused the death of my 4 year old golden retriever, Hunter, 3 years ago next month. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sandra you are right when you mention all of these things we pump into our dogs.
    Heartworm pills alone are pesticides that we feed to our dogs on a montly basis.  If pesticides kill the heartworms in their bodies..we have to believe in the long term it can not be good for them. Maybe necessary but not good or healthy for them.   Many dogs have weakened immune systems from over vaccinations, we see this a lot. So for the dogs that seem to be doing fine,,,in the long run after years of these vaccinations, don't we have to figure that they played a role in causing problems?   I see people using flea and tick killer on their dogs whether they have flees or not. We used one of them on Ollie once when he went camping, and it caused skin problems on him for months after that.  We know that this stuff gets in their sytem and kills fleas, ticks and even the eggs...how can that be good for a dogs health in the long run?  I believe many or even all of these things could play a major role in cancer and other diseases.
    • Gold Top Dog

    ORIGINAL: glenmar

    Additionally, often the "meat byproducts" come from rendering plants.  Rendering plants get all the roadkill, the 4D market animals (cows, etc) and yes, sometimes euthanized pets.  So while it's important to switch to a higher quality food, and Purina isn't one of them, don't beat yourself up for what you didn't know.


    While I agree that "meat byproducts" is bad, bad, bad, it no longer contains road kill or euthanized pets (dogs and cats).

    It does however contain horses from kill auctions and only the left over, not very healthy parts of those horses because the healthy parts are sold to Asia where horse is a delicacy. Not to mention the horse was killed through euthanasia, therefore the horse meat still contains whatever killed that horse.

    It also contains whatever meat was cheapest at the time, that's why they use the generic term "meat" rather than chicken, beef, turkey, or horse. What's really scary is that they often use bad liver. What I mean is they use liver from, say, a cow whos liver was failing due to consuming too many toxins (the liver absobs the bodies toxins) - so basically they are just feeding that toxin back to your animal. Further, those "cheap" meats are obviously not suited for human consumption often because they are either undigestable parts or because they sat around the rendering plant's floor for too long.

    I started the same "euthanized pet and roadkill" discussion with an Eagle Pack rep, and while he said those type of rumors will certainly turn people away from product that contain "meat by product," it is not true. It is now illegal to use roadkill and euthanized pets in dog and cat food.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sorry, but I wanted to answer the OP's question.

    Yes, I have actually seen Kibbles N' Bits cause health problems. My dog was fed KNB when I rescued him. He had horrible, horrible ear infections because of the large amounts of wheat KNB contains. He was also extremely hard to house train because whatever he was eating was comming right back out the other end.

    I used to work at a pet supplies store. I would swear that atleast half the people I talked to with dogs with diabetes fed Kibbles N Bits before they found out the dog was sick. I'm still going to say it is because the high amount of sugar in the food. I could tell just by looking at the dog that they were being fed KNB or something like it (Beneful or Moist and Meaty). The dog would be extremely hyper, usually over weight, had red feet and red tear stains, smelled bad, had extreme tarter on it's teeth.

    One poor puppy was throwing up all over the store. The hillbilly people that owned him kept saying "why is he throwing up? He's been doing this for days now." Well aparently they adopted the pup from the shelter a week ago. They had been feeding him KNB and the poor little guy was throwing up colored bile with bright red, yellow, orange, and brown chunks. Sadly, these were also the type of people that weren't mean, but didn't listen to a darn thing I said when I asked them if the food in their cart, Kibbles N Bits, was what they had been feeding the dog and if so, it is probably what's causing him to be sick because he's throwing up colored peices and the food isn't very good anyways. They just kept commenting on how they are going to have to take him to the vet, and they don't know what's wrong, but still bought that bag of food. Well, I knew what was wrong and I hope when they take him to the vet they'll ask about his food. Even vets don't like KNB.

    I have nick names for some of the really bad dog and some cat foods: Kibbles N $hits, Bene-full- of -crap, Kitten-ka-poop-le, and Cr-Iams.
    • Gold Top Dog
    jojo, I'm glad you posted that info about road kill etc. I had read that a while back that it is not true or not true anymore.
    • Gold Top Dog
    A strong link between suboptimal diet and cancer has been shown to exist in humans. Same with dogs. I can find few specific studies, but this one is interesting:
     J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2005 Jul 1;227(1):94-100.







    Links

    Evaluation of the effect of dietary vegetable consumption on reducing risk of transitional cell carcinoma of the urinary bladder in Scottish Terriers.

  • [linkRaghavan>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Raghavan+M%22%5BAuthor%5D]Raghavan M[/link],
  • [linkKnapp>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Knapp+DW%22%5BAuthor%5D]Knapp DW[/link],
  • [linkBonney>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Bonney+PL%22%5BAuthor%5D]Bonney PL[/link],
  • [linkDawson>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Dawson+MH%22%5BAuthor%5D]Dawson MH[/link],
  • [linkGlickman>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Glickman+LT%22%5BAuthor%5D]Glickman LT[/link].
    Department of Veterinary Pathobiology, School of Veterinary Medicine, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907-2027, USA.
    OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effects of vegetable consumption and vitamin supplementation on the risk of developing transitional cell carcinoma (TCC) of the urinary bladder in Scottish Terriers. DESIGN: Case-control study. ANIMALS: 92 adult Scottish Terriers with TCC (cases) and 83 Scottish Terriers with other conditions (controls). PROCEDURE: Owners of dogs with TCC completed a questionnaire regarding their dogs' diet and intake of vitamin supplements in the year prior to diagnosis of TCC; owners of control dogs completed the questionnaire for a comparable time period. The risk (odds ratio [OR]) of developing TCC associated with diet and vitamin supplementation was determined by use of logistic regression. RESULTS: After adjustment for age, weight, neuter status, and coat color, there was an inverse association between consumption of vegetables at least 3 times/wk (OR, 0.30; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.15 to 0.62) and risk of developing TCC. For individual vegetable types, the risk of developing TCC was inversely associated with consumption of green leafy vegetables (OR, 0.12; 95% CI, 0.01 to 0.97) and yellow-orange vegetables (OR, 0.31; 95% CI, 0.14 to 0.70). Consumption of cruciferous vegetables was not significantly associated with a similar reduction in risk of developing TCC (OR, 0.22; CI, 0.04 to 1.11). The power of the study to detect a 50% reduction in TCC risk associated with daily vitamin supplementation was considered low (25%). CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Results suggest that consumption of certain vegetables may prevent or slow the development of TCC in Scottish Terriers.
    PMID: 16013542 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    and this one
     
    J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2004 Aug 1;225(3):389-94.







    Links

    Topical flea and tick pesticides and the risk of transitional cell carcinoma of the urinary bladder in Scottish Terriers.

  • [linkRaghavan>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Raghavan+M%22%5BAuthor%5D]Raghavan M[/link],
  • [linkKnapp>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Knapp+DW%22%5BAuthor%5D]Knapp DW[/link],
  • [linkDawson>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Dawson+MH%22%5BAuthor%5D]Dawson MH[/link],
  • [linkBonney>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Bonney+PL%22%5BAuthor%5D]Bonney PL[/link],
  • [linkGlickman>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Glickman+LT%22%5BAuthor%5D]Glickman LT[/link].
    Department of Veterinary Pathobiology, School of Veterinary Medicine, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907-2027, USA.
    OBJECTIVE: To determine whether use of topical flea and tick products increases the risk of transitional cell carcinoma (TCC) of the urinary bladder in Scottish Terriers. DESIGN: Case-control study. ANIMALS: 87 adult Scottish Terriers with TCC (cases) and 83 adult Scottish Terriers with other health-related conditions (controls). PROCEDURE: Owners of study dogs were recruited through private veterinary practices and the Scottish Terrier Club of America. History of exposure to flea and tick products 1 year prior to diagnosis of TCC for case dogs and during a comparable period for control dogs was obtained through a questionnaire. Risk of TCC associated with exposure to flea and tick products was determined by means of univariate and multiple logistic regression analysis. RESULTS: After adjustment for host factors, Scottish Terriers treated with topical spot-on flea and tick products containing fipronil or imidacloprid did not have an increased risk of TCC, compared with Scottish Terriers that had never been exposed to any flea and tick products. The risk of TCC associated with use of older topical flea and tick products such as shampoos, dips, powders, sprays, and collars could not be evaluated because of the low number of owners in the study population that had used such products. CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Results suggest that use of topical spot-on flea and tick products does not increase the risk of TCC in Scottish Terriers.
    PMID: 15328714 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
    • Gold Top Dog
    this too very interesting. 93% survival on a 35% protein diet (by source of calories not dry weight) compared to 69% survival on a 25% protein diet.
     
     
    Breast Cancer Res Treat. 1989 Jan;13(1):49-60.







    Links

    Histopathologic and dietary prognostic factors for canine mammary carcinoma.

  • [linkShofer>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Shofer+FS%22%5BAuthor%5D]Shofer FS[/link],
  • [linkSonnenschein>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Sonnenschein+EG%22%5BAuthor%5D]Sonnenschein EG[/link],
  • [linkGoldschmidt>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Goldschmidt+MH%22%5BAuthor%5D]Goldschmidt MH[/link],
  • [linkLaster>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Laster+LL%22%5BAuthor%5D]Laster LL[/link],
  • [linkGlickman>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Glickman+LT%22%5BAuthor%5D]Glickman LT[/link].
    Department of Clinical Studies, University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine, Philadelphia 19104.
    Histologic and dietary prognostic factors for survival following naturally occurring breast cancer were studied for 145 pet dogs. Information was collected from the dog's owner and veterinarian regarding medical and reproductive history, nutritional status, treatment, tumor recurrence, and length of survival. The usual intake of all dog and table foods consumed 1 year prior to diagnosis was obtained using a validated quantitative food frequency questionnaire. A histologic malignancy score was derived based on 7 histopathologic criteria. The mean age of the dogs was 10.4 +/- 2.5 years; 37% had been ovariohysterectomized prior to diagnosis. Product-limit estimates of survival indicated that 6 factors, namely body conformation 1 year prior to diagnosis (p = 0.03), histologic tumor type (p = 0.004), histologic malignancy score (p = 0.02), histologic invasion (p = 0.002), tumor recurrence (p less than 0.0001), and completeness of surgery (p = 0.01) were of prognostic significance. In addition, when dogs were characterized by the percent of total calories they derived from fat and protein, the median survival time for dogs in the low fat group (less than 39%) with protein greater than 27%, 23-27%, and less than 23% was 3 years, 1.2 years, and 6 months, respectively (p = 0.008). For dogs in the high fat group (greater than or equal to 39%), there was no difference in survival for the different intake levels of dietary protein (p = 0.84). When these data were fitted to a proportional hazards model, recurrence, histologic score, tumor type, percent of calories derived from protein, fat group, and a protein-fat group interaction term were statistically significant. Predicted 1 year survival for dogs on a low fat diet with 15%, 25%, and 35% of total calories derived from protein was 17%, 69%, and 93%, respectively.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Kibbles n Bits is what I feed my first dog before I knew a thing about nutrition.  I feed the weight control kibbles n Bits (forgot the name) and my dog was not loosing weight, come to find out she was Hypothyroid which was made worse by the poor food she was eating, she did not need all the sugar I was pumping into her.  I took her off that got her on thyroid meds and some high quality weight management food.  She doesn't live with me now but is doing much better on her better food and meds.

    Although Purina is at the high end of nutrition of low end dog foods it's still packed with stuff that is not good for dogs.  It's like comparing fast food restraints, yeah, some are better for you then others but they will never compare to nice gourmet high end restaurants.
    • Silver

    I started the same "euthanized pet and roadkill" discussion with an Eagle Pack rep, and while he said those type of rumors will certainly turn people away from product that contain "meat by product," it is not true. It is now illegal to use roadkill and euthanized pets in dog and cat food.



    That is totally false.  It IS legal to use euthanized cats and dogs and the California Veterinary Association has come right out and admitted that it sends most of its euthanized pets directly to rendering plants. 

    Maybe you should READ this :
    [linkhttp://www.5stardog.com/dog-food.asp]http://www.5stardog.com/dog-food.asp   [/link]

    Read the part under  MEAT PRODUCTS

    [linkhttp://www.belfield.com/article3.html]http://www.belfield.com/article3.html[/link]
    " Some of these dead pets -- those who were euthanized by veterinarians -- already have sodium pentobarbital in their bodies before being treated with denaturing substances. In veterinary offices most cats and dogs are put to sleep w/this chemical. According to Eckhouse, vets at the U of Minn warned that the Sodium pentobarbital used to put pets to sleep "survived rendering without undergoing degradation" but they concluded the residue amount would be too small to cause problems if the carcasses of euthanized pets were mixed with other raw materials during the day's production run. " .....

    [linkhttp://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-03.htm]http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-03.htm[/link]
    The practice of boiling down euthanized cats and dogs causes an uproar in St. Louis... "What's getting into your pets" - suggested that dogs and cats from local shelters were ending up in kibble.  As PROOF, Allman aired footage of a tanker truck entering the rendering plant , a truck emblazoned with the motto : "Serving the Pet Food Industry"
     The Millstadt Rendering Co. , a small family business that for decades had been taking the regions euthanized animals for free, in what the owners thought was a public service, reeled in the face of so much rage.  Hopeing to free themselves from the public relations fiasco , the rendering plant announce just before Xmas that it would stop accepting euthanized cats and dogs"

    [linkhttp://tafkac.org/animals/rendering_euthanized_animals.html]http://tafkac.org/animals/rendering_euthanized_animals.html[/link]

    [linkhttp://www.y2khealthanddetox.com/annmartin.html]http://www.y2khealthanddetox.com/annmartin.html[/link]
    Food Pets Die For : Shocking Facts About the Pet Food Industry  - Ann Martin

    [linkhttp://www.newstarget.com/012647.html]http://www.newstarget.com/012647.htm[/link]
    " The true horrors of pet food revealed: Prepare to be shocked by what goes into dog and cat food "
    What mysterious " meat by-products really are.  Let's start with what usually appears as the protein source and the primary ingredient in petfood : Meat by-products or meat meal. Both are euphanisms for the parts of animals that wouldn't be considered meat by any consumer.  It is a "misnomer' as these parts contain little, if any , meat.
       Meat meal can contain the boiled down flesh of animals we would consider unacceptable for consumption. This can include zoo animals, road kill, and 4D livestock. Most shockingly this can also include CATS and DOGS. That's right, your pets could be cannibals. Fast Food Nation author Eric Schlosser writes..." although leading American manufacturers promise never to put rendered pets into their pet foods, it is  STILL LEGAL TO DO SO.  A Canadian company was putting 40,000 pounds of dead dogs and dead cats into it's dog and cat food every week .
       Rendering practices aren't just gross.. they're DANGEROUS to your pets. Pet food manufacturers will seeming go through any length to fill their foods with the cheapest sources of protein they can find.  They are primarily grain based diets fortified with synthetic vitamins, harmful chemical preservatives, herbicides, insecticides, pesticides and harmful amounts of some vitamins and minerals such as zinc."

     Should I keep going ??? Wake up and RESEARCH  information for yourself instead of  believing what some bloody dog food company rep tells you !  I can find HUNDREDS more articles that state the same.