So what do we want here?

ORIGINAL: sooner

One thing I think it's important to remember is that, no matter what, you don't know the whole story. The first post in a thread could be miles long – and you still wouldn't have all the details or know all you needed to know to pass judgment on a situation. It's simply not possible to express emotion, background, or lifestyle, among other factors, in a forum post. So, instead of passing judgment, jumping to conclusions, or making assumptions many people here would do well to ask more questions about the situation or phrase their comments as suggestions rather than accusations.

 
yes, suggestions is the key word...
 
(i find myself agreeing to posts because they express what i wanted to say better. i take that to mean to sleep, so i'll be back tomorrow....)

ETA: who's dr. phil??

http://www.drphil.com/

he's basically a half wit that doles out advice on tv.

At the risk of being one of Gina's "Dr. Phils" and bearing in mind that I missed most of this:

I would like to see people realise that differences in opinion need not be divisive. It;s what makes this board interesting. Good grief, how boring would it be if every time someone posted something the only replies said "Oh yes! I agree with that 100%!" None of us would learn anything, and isn't that why we're here?

If I post something, honest replies are more valuable to me than insincere ones. I don't need yes-men....I have a husband for that. []

Over the internet it is impossible to tell if someone has considered a particular angle to an issue unless they specifically state that they have, so the temptation is always going to be there to express a view. And that's a GOOD thing, because as I say it's how we learn...but often the message isn't as important as the delivery.

An old friend of my family used to have this great saying:

Your right to swing your fist stops where my nose starts.

i think in order to repair the problem we must read, then reread what we post... whether its a topic to be discussed or a reply to a topic.... i try to do that myself, though sometimes i fail to be clear, but i do try.
also .... instead of saying "Are you CRAZY?!?! that's just going to blow up in your face!!!" why not say "Well.. have you considered that this and this might happen? to prevent it, maybe you could do that instead."
i'm sure that's too namby pamby for a lot of you folks, but its the more polite route rather than hiking the leash up to the highest part of the neck and trudging on expecting a willing follower.... that works on SOME but not all.... i for one will dig my heals in and let myself by strangled before i just DO what someone says.... #1 reason i didnt join the military. and i only get more stubborn when someone says i must be crazy.. because then i'm thinking "Well i'll show you."
am i the only one that has that personality defect? to go my own way, taking advice with a grain of salt? when i ask a question i am not looking for the number one fix all answer... i want to know EVERYONES opinion and experience. it isnt disrespecting to ask for that. because like we've already said many times.... it might have failed for you, but it didnt fail for that guy, and i want to know what he did to get success.

my inlaws think my husband has deserved every bad marriage and divorce he's ever had because he never took their advice.... they think he deserved to lose custody of his kids because he wouldnt do what they told him. they refused to help and support him and his decisions... if they HAD respected him just that little bit.... well... i wouldnt be married to him right now... so rock on inlaws! every time he ignores their advice i benifit... when they say "cant" we can, if they say dont... we do.... sometimes its a good thing to tell someone what they cant do because then it sparks an "Oh yeah, just watch me" responce..... mountains have been moved over situations like that.

ORIGINAL: g33
WHAT is it that we are looking for in this forum in terms of our sharing and our responsibility as recipients of the sharing? 

The problem is that everyone on this forum, or any forum for that matter, has their own reasons for being here. Some people want information, some want to educate, some want debate, some want to push an agenda, some want to brag, some want to complain, some want to argue, some are just looking for someone to talk to and to be honest I think a number of members are here to fill some void that exists in their 'real' lives.
So a board is what it is, depending soley on who it's members are. There is a very large membership on idog, but for every member I am sure half a dozen other people have come along and rejected the forum because it does not suit them. It doesn't take long to figure
out how this board operates and conducts itself. There is always drama, it's just a matter of degree most days. I guess that's why most people stay - or else they wouldn't! JMO

I guess I'm a blunt spoken person, and I appreciate blunt spoken people. I generally ask questions because I want the answer. There have been times I didn't want to hear the answer at the time, but had to admit the answer was accurate. I remember when I moved out to the boonies and the dogs killed one  of my cats. I seriously considered using a shock collar on Yoshi to try to train him off of my cats.  Did I want to hear that this was not a good plan? No. But it was not a good plan, and I appreciate people telling me straight up it was not a good plan. I even appreciate the silent treatment (ignore bad behavior) when I kept insisting that it might be a good plan. But I read the response (lack thereof) correctly. They were right; it was not a good plan. I asked and it was answered and Yoshi was not subjected to a shock collar.

This informs my method of communication. If you ask me my opinion I will tell you my opinion. And yes, your past information will influence my opinion. For example, if I told you I was an alcoholic, and later said that I planned on attending a tequila party, I would not find it in any way offensive that you say, "Paula, didn't you say back in another thread that you're an alcoholic? Why are you going to a tequilla party?" I don't see this as digging for information in a destructive way at all - it strikes me an honest question from someone showing concern.

But that's just me.
Paula

ORIGINAL: g33

I apologize for getting sarcastic. 

OK that said, I have fallen into the trap of rehashing the departure...but seriously I meant to start this thread with an actual POINT (imagine that!) and ask the question - WHAT is it that we are looking for in this forum in terms of our sharing and our responsibility as recipients of the sharing?  What is and is not permissible - what's crossing the line and what's not? 

 
I do think this was a good question to ask, as long as the thread stays on topic. NDR seems to be really, really nasty lately. I have been a member since Sept/Oct of 2005 and have seen the forum get like this every so often and it does die down, but I have to say that I have never seen it be like this SO much, one topic after another.
 
Basically, there is no answer really. It's a public forum. People are going to respond how they are. You can't control what other people say or do.
 
IMHO, I don't think this means that we should take that to a rude and mean level though. If you post something deeply personal or just want to vent, then fine. If others want to respond, then I think they should do so, but listen to yourselves first! My mom used to always say that to me, "Listen to yourself Sylvia. Really listen to yourself." whenever I would get an attitude.
 
There is a way to be straight-forward, honest, candid, and even blunt without being mean, rude, judgemental and abrasive. There is a way to give advice without being condescending. There is a way to have an opinion without being patronizing. And if you simply can't see recognize the difference, then you will be called out by other members of the board for being "mean", "rude", "harsh".  If more than a few people say you are being that way, then maybe, just maybe, you really are being that way. (I'm using "you" in a general way, not singling anybody out).
 
I don't think anybody should have to "sugar coat" what they want to say, but I think that if people want to have a real discussion/debate, then it should all be done respectfully. If you can say what you want to say in a respectful tone, even if what you are saying is harsh or not what a particular person is wanting to hear, then you are engaging in adult conversation, imo. It's very different than when someone comes on and says something in a "bashing" way. With internet/chatting it's even harder to interpret though because you can't HEAR the tone of the person's voice. Someone may take something written in an entirely different way then it was meant. Ugh . . . that's why I originally said that there's really nothing you can do about it. You can only control your own actions and words. I'm rambling now. Sorry! []
 
 
 

If the OP hadn't posted detailed, extensive, intimate details of her personal life and current situation with her dogs and other animals on a very public forum for everyone and anyone to read, then of course we could all give her the benefit of the doubt that the situation is completely under control.
 
When I read that personal post made by the OP, I was shocked, as many other members are, that someone would throw all that information out there for all the world to see.  You have to wonder why they posted it.
 
Also, when you post any type of detailed information on a forum, you are going to get replies that you don't like.  Just like in real life!  And in real life, we don't have moderators. And maybe those who were criticizing her are concerned for the many animals she has and they don't want to come here next week to read another ost about more dead animals.
 
And I also firmly believe that age is always a factor.  When I was 19 or 20 I would get into fights with my parents all the time, asserting the fact that I am an adult and they don't know any better than I do just because they are older.  Boy, was I ever wrong!

I think the key here is more tolerance and restraint on both sides.
 
I have never known what it means to TRULY have such restraint until the past few weeks on this board. If I hadn#%92t done so, you all would have gotten to see a side of me that has probably only come out once or twice in my entire life.  But in the end I decided what purpose does it serve for me to go of and really state how I am feeling?  IS IT REALLY gonna make a difference and change peoples opinions?  In the end, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things?  Aren#%92t there more important things in my life that I shouldn#%92t let a dog forum make me this feel such frustration???  
 
At the same time, I was on the other side of the fence in the last week and made the decision to not post about an issue I had with JJ that was most disturbing to me. I KNEW that posting would only allow others to possibly attack and what I needed more than anything was the opinion of a few people that I respected, who would tell me their honest opinion. SO in order to not open myself up to criticism that I  may not REALLY want, I again used some restraint  in my decision to not post a new thread.   

People keep saying, "well when I post a question I want the answer!"

The OP in question wasn't asking any questions. People weren't giving answers, either, they were just criticizing (with the exception of g33 who linked to a website).

ORIGINAL: DumDog


and to apply to a forum... you have the same thing. it results in people being afraid to post because they're scared to death of being shot down in flames. people have already said that they're afraid to and avoid posting, Callie has said that she gets emails from people asking her questions that could just as easily be asked HERE, but they're too scared to do it.

 
I agree. And as I stated on a another board... the thing that needs to be maintained is CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISM. [sm=idea.gif]
 
Honestly, it's really not that hard.

Shelly,

I think you might have hit the nail on the head. You have to choose your forum. You have some delicate, sensitive issue that is causing you pain - emotionally, physically, etc - maybe  a public forum is not the right environment in which to seek help.

The interesting thing about the WWW is that it feels private and people tend to forget it is public. In one of my classes we're talking about research ethics and privacy, and internet research tools bring up a whole extra set of complications. From a legal standpoint the web is public and therefore not privy to any rights of privacy. In real life, and based on evidence of how people use the net (message board, for example) the expectation is that it is private. This is a dangerous complication. For example, people post very private things on the internet - for example, where you live, how often you are home, what kind of security you have, whether you live alone, etc, all in conversation. We are aware that we ought not to post our ssn, or credit  card info, but otherwise we feel like we're talking to friends.

Case in point: I flinch when I see discussion threads like "talk about your deepest darkest secret". It feels like you're discussing something among friends but it's the WORLD WIDE WEB!

Paula

My biggest beef with message boards in general is that there are no many people hell bent of being a know-it-all and no matter what you post, they'll assume you're an idiot and give you unsolicitied advice until you can't see straight. Some people just need to feel like they're an expert on something, and if you intrude on that "something", you're a threat and they have to belittle you.

UGH

I once had a boss that was big into show dogs and bred standard poodles. I really believe she got her self esteem from knowing lots about dogs - something no one else knew lots about... or so she thought. When I went to work there I thought her and I would get along because we shared a common interest but everytime I tried to talk about it, she just interupted me and started preaching at me, telling me things I already knew and not bothering to assess my level of knowledge at all. The funny thing is, the only thing I really couldn't talk to her about was dogs because she was SO obsessed with knowing more than everyone else about them that she couldn't handle talking to another knowledgable person. In my opinion, she simply was not healthy psychologically. I'm not saying everyone on here is like that, but there are certainly a fair few!

An old friend of my family used to have this great saying:

Your right to swing your fist stops where my nose starts.

LOL! Your old friend is Oliver Wendell Holmes, and he said (I love this saying BTW),
"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins" .

Paula

ORIGINAL: paulaedwina

An old friend of my family used to have this great saying:

Your right to swing your fist stops where my nose starts.

LOL! Your old friend is Oliver Wendell Holmes, and he said (I love this saying BTW),
"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins" .

Paula

D'OH! Thanks Paula...I knew I wasn't remembering it correctly...and something in the back of my head was saying it was a quote...but I just totally blanked and thought it was best just to get the point across!

Thanks for clearing that up for me! Can I borrow a few of your brain cells? Mine seem to have gone on holiday somewhere.