This shelter enables puppymills!

back to the origional topic -

2bully

They didn't just buy the dogs. They bought the entire operation, land, cages, the whole ball of wax.

can you please tell me what expierence you have in dealing with puppy mills? Have you worked with 100+ dogs from this type of situation? Do you understand how HARD it is to charge these idiots with anything? Animal Cruelty is not a thing our court systems handle in a timely manner. What are YOU doing to shut them down?

the WI HS is not using these animals for breeding, and I'm SURE they will not make a profit off of this - do you understand how much money it takes to make animals from this type of situation healthy?

DPU

Overpopulation or no overpopulationg, the fact is that some dogs are dying once they get into the shelter system.  The reason is dog lovers not stepping up to volunteer.  You can not put in place all those Retention programs unless there is manpower to support them.  Blaming the shelter that is at least saving most of the dogs that come through the door only discourages volunteers from coming forward.  You can live with that?  Kind of goes against your goals.  You need to rethink your strategy.

 Oh I see, my finger pointing discourages people from helping out. I guess all the blame that the shelter and rescue system bandies around doesn't alienate potential volunteers. Since my message isn't as popular as the shelter and rescue message concerning these things how is it my position should shoulder the responsibility of keeping the volunteers away?

have purchased pet store dogs in the past and I will again in the future.

I'm simply appalled that a so-called rescuer would not see that this just perpetuates a system that perpetrates misery on dogs.  The ONLY way that we will ever stop puppy mills is to stop supporting the pet store industry.  You are not "rescuing" a dog when you buy from a pet store, you are simply insuring that greedy *&%($#^'s somewhere in the midwest will be able to keep row upon row of breeding bitches in filthy cages thanks to the profit you just provided them with.  Disgusting.

I agree, Anne.  If anyone really wants to help a puppy mill dog (under the arguement that the dog is already alive and someone has to own it), then go to the mill and offer to buy out the brood bitches!  Oh wait...no one wants to help those dogs, they want easy access to a cute new puppy under the disguise of "rescuing" it.

spiritdogs

have purchased pet store dogs in the past and I will again in the future.

I'm simply appalled that a so-called rescuer would not see that this just perpetuates a system that perpetrates misery on dogs.  The ONLY way that we will ever stop puppy mills is to stop supporting the pet store industry.  You are not "rescuing" a dog when you buy from a pet store, you are simply insuring that greedy *&%($#^'s somewhere in the midwest will be able to keep row upon row of breeding bitches in filthy cages thanks to the profit you just provided them with.  Disgusting.

 Why would you reply to me and quote a different member? For the record I didn't make that statement DPU made that statement.

Once again, people on the sidelines trying to call the shots for others to act.  Having others do your dirty work while you just sit back and watch and then profit by these dogs by taking in dog related fees.  I am appalled that so called dog professionals would advocate and allow the extended miserable existence and would be ok to sacrifice their lives.  Dog professional who advocate the killing of puppies are so pathetic because they greedily accept the fees from these "rescued" pet shop dogs by allowing the pups in their training class, in their clinics, in their grooming facilities, in breed clubs, in their conformation showings, in their boarding facilities.  Every pet shop that I know always has first free vet visit. If the dog professional were united, they would be able to police and change the practices of one of their own, the puppymiller.  Leave the public out of your internal squabbles.  Relying on the public to stop the practices of puppymillers and to close down pet shops while the dog professional continues supporting the pet store industry by accepting fees associated with these dogs is so two faced.  The dog professional is in a position to create consequences for purchasing pet shop dogs but we all know greed override this.  You can't have it both ways when there are so many other ways to accomplish what is needed without picking on the poor defenseless puppy.

2bully

spiritdogs

have purchased pet store dogs in the past and I will again in the future.

I'm simply appalled that a so-called rescuer would not see that this just perpetuates a system that perpetrates misery on dogs.  The ONLY way that we will ever stop puppy mills is to stop supporting the pet store industry.  You are not "rescuing" a dog when you buy from a pet store, you are simply insuring that greedy *&%($#^'s somewhere in the midwest will be able to keep row upon row of breeding bitches in filthy cages thanks to the profit you just provided them with.  Disgusting.

 Why would you reply to me and quote a different member? For the record I didn't make that statement DPU made that statement.

For the record - I've noticed that if I hit "reply to topic" it defaults to replying to the last person who posted, even if I have quote someone else.  It can cause some confusion, but don't take it personally.  I think it happens to everyone.

 DPU I do agree with you that once the pup is alive, it needs to be cared for.  But buying it from the pet shop is not the way to do it... you will win the battle but lose the war.  There are other ways to help those puppies in pet shops WITHOUT buying them.

However, once they have been bought, what do you suppose the new owners are to do with it?  You think that because they made a poorly informed choice the rest of the dog professional world should abandon them?  Withdraw their services so that they struggle and the dog suffers more?  If you advocate THAT how can you accuse Anne, or anyone one else who boycotts puppy selling pet shops of being two faced?  It makes no sense.

Chuffy

If you advocate THAT how can you accuse Anne, or anyone one else who boycotts puppy selling pet shops of being two faced?  It makes no sense.

I don't advocate that just I don't advocate boycotting the adoption of pet stores puppies.  Just need to point the phoniness of the dog professional advocacy once money is involved.  I am sure there are things that can be done before the puppy is born. 

DPU

Chuffy

If you advocate THAT how can you accuse Anne, or anyone one else who boycotts puppy selling pet shops of being two faced?  It makes no sense.

I don't advocate that just I don't advocate boycotting the adoption of pet stores puppies.  

Adoption?  Around here pet store puppies are $600-$1200.

I guess where someone gets a dog is really no business of mine, but at least call it what it is.  Getting a pup from a pet store is buying a puppy mill or brokered dog, not adopting or rescuing (unless the conditions of the pet store are called into question, in which case the dog should not be purchased, the authorities should be called first).

I almost bought a kitten from a pet store once.  I saw the door to the back room was open and there was a female cat kept in a small cage.  She was just caged back here, throwing litter after litter of kittens to sell.  If I ever get a cat from that store I will be asking to purchase HER.

DPU

I don't advocate that just I don't advocate boycotting the adoption of pet stores puppies.  Just need to point the phoniness of the dog professional advocacy once money is involved.  I am sure there are things that can be done before the puppy is born. 

As has been pointed out numerous times, exchanging money for a living thing at a pet store perpetuates the suffering of all the animals behind the scenes. It's moral D-Day for us as animal lovers. On one hand that singular puppy faces an uncertain future, and on the other hand are the thousands of dogs who are exploited in appalling conditions until they are completely and totally used up physically and disposed of. By providing the store, and the facility providing the animal to the store, with a source of income you are endorsing their practices and allowing them to continue abusing animals.

Comparing that to a trainer accepting money from the owner of a pet store puppy is apples to oranges. If the puppy is left in the store, unable to be sold, the pup will either be returned to the breeder, who with enough returns will eventually be run out of business, or the pup will be surrendered or given away and the pet store will think twice before buying another animal that they cannot sell. With an organized effort eventually pet stores and by association, puppy mills, could be bankrupted.

By comparison, if someone buys a puppy mill dog from a pet store chances are very good that it is going to have health or behavior problems and without trainers and others in the pet professions, that dog will likely end up sick, dead or abandoned. After the pup is sold there is no consequence for the store or the breeder, and chances are the owner would never know who the breeder is anyway.  Refusing service to those dogs serves no greater good at that point. The mission becomes keeping the dog happy and healthy and in the owner's home forever.

For what it's worth, I am the secretary of the GSD club I belong to and since I get all e-mails, I screen all applicants.  We are selective about applicants.  I have been contacted by backyard breeders, people leaving me messages like "OMG my bitch is in heat, help me find a stud dog now!" (and I find out this person's dog is like 8 months old and came from a flea market), etc and with these people we do our best to educate but don't just automatically let them join the club b/c on some level I believe that is supporting their poor breeding practices.  We have some new people applying right now and I'm very carefully looking into their breeding and training practices.  They will also do an evaluation with our TD (training director).  Every other working dog or GSD club I know about has bylaws and a set process for joining the club, it is not a free for all where backyard breeders and puppy millers can join to push their filthy agendas.

So, it's not fair to say that all clubs and trainers accept and condone anyone who will give them their money. 

sooner

If the puppy is left in the store, unable to be sold, the pup will either be returned to the breeder, who with enough returns will eventually be run out of business, or the pup will be surrendered or given away and the pet store will think twice before buying another animal that they cannot sell. With an organized effort eventually pet stores and by association, puppy mills, could be bankrupted.

Ahhhh, and everything is peachy keen for the puppy that is going through these "organized effort".  That is not acceptable to me.  The pet store and puppymiller are part of the dog profession and if dog professionals united can not reign in these renegrades why pawn off the effort onto the public.  We just want to adopt a puppy and give the puppy a good life.  As I said before, settle your internal squabbles without involving the public. 

It is not apple and oranges, its having integrity within your advocacy.  The dog professionals will not purchase a pet shop puppy and that is their choice.  When they advocate and convince others to do the same, then the fate of the puppies, be it an extended miserable time or death, it is their responsibility.  They have already sacrificed these puppies and are in a position to create a consequence for purchasing these puppies.  But wait, the consequence is going actually mean they get involved instead of standing on the sidelines trying to call shots for others to take action.  And that other little thing where their own pocketbook is involved.

Rescue means helping a dog in distress.  The boycott advocacy is the polar opposite of rescue and most definitely contains selfish and greed elements.

Buying a pet store dog is not rescue. Rescuers are people like the ones that took in the 10 puppy mill breeder surrenders that we transported this weekend. Rescuers are the ones who will rehab these dogs that have never been touched by kind people, never put their paws on grass, never experienced sights or sounds outside their cages. If you want to buy a pet store dog and you can justify it to your own conscience, then do so, but don't call it rescuing or adopting because it isn't. The opposite of rescue is buying a pet store dog and directly funding animal abuse.

DPU

Rescue means helping a dog in distress. 

If a pet store dog is truly in distress you need to call the cops, AC, and SPCA so they can do a thorough investigation and document all the evidence.

Now, personally, I never ever condone purchasing a dog from a pet store, but I will say that I have yet to see a dog in a pet store that was in any more "distress" than many puppies who are crated at home for 8+ hours a day.  Yes the look cute all sad and lonely, but they are not in any danger and are not any more sad or more lonely than any puppy in the cage at the local pound. 

I've heard so many people try to justify purchasing pet store animals based on the conditions of the dog being caged and whatnot and for me that doesn't fly.  If the conditions are illegal then get the authorities involved.  If the conditions are legal, then don't say the dog is being "rescued" from a bad situation.