This shelter enables puppymills!

There is not enough information in either article about whether or not anybody ever reported suspected violations and whether or not "those with the authority to DO such things" ever did a darn thing.  Had there been enough to shut it down, perhaps it would have happened years ago.  Many puppy millers are skilled at deceit and hiding the depths of the horrors of what they do from a lot of people.  Also, how many times have any of us seen dogs in awful conditions that many local Animal Controls do nothing about because the dog has food and shelter?

I'd think that the WI-HS was not partnering with this mill, but rather got stuck with the leftovers (unsellable dogs), as well as those turned in by suckers who bought them and had more behavioral and medical problems than they could deal with.

I'd be very interested in facts, not conjecture and such biased opinions as Liquorman presented. 

DPU

Chuffy

If the puppies aren't bought, if everyone REFUSES to buy them, they will eventually be surrendered to shelters and adopted from there.  If they are bought, it enables the shops and mills to keep producing dogs this way,

Sound like once again, someone on the sideliness trying to call the shots of how a rescue group should operate.  Yep, leave it to the shelter to take on the responsibility when the dogs are probably going to be in dire straits.  And what do you think is happening to the pups during this "eventually" time.  We all know what great housing conditions they are in for public display.  And the pups will be hopping, skipping, playing, socializing, parasite free, and with a full belly.  For some people, it is very easy to pick on a pup or to even sacrifice that pup and then just wash their hands of the matter.  Its much harder to pick on the real cause of the problem, the human.

 

DPU, no one said it was a good situation.  But enabling the people treating dogs like puppy factories is even less desirable in my opinion.

2bully

Chuffy

2bully

Now those 1200 dogs will get added to the "overpopulation" agenda, when in reality they were purchased. See I find it a hard pill to swallow that "overpopulation" gets bandied around yet a shelter buys 1200 dogs and its considered a win.

 

Sorry but this is almost laughable it is so ridiculous.  Over population means there are more dogs than there are homes.  It has nothing to do with how many dogs are purchased.... its to do with how many EXIST against how many homes are available

 Prove your theory. I contend that any info you would provide will be based on shelter intake, adoptions, and euthanation rates. So the purchase of 1200 dogs at a single time will have no effect on intake, adoption, or euthanation numbers. So using your definition that you provided there must be 1200 homes lined up for those dogs already, because in order for them not to be added to the "overpopulation" there must be homes available.

 

Sigh.  They were ALREADY part of the overpopulation BEFORE they were purchased.  They may not have been reflected in your bible of statistics and reports, but they still existed and they still needed a home.  

Chuffy

DPU, no one said it was a good situation.  But enabling the people treating dogs like puppy factories is even less desirable in my opinion.

And you approve and actively advocate and encourage the suffering and torment of puppies to accomplish your end.  This thread shows how to stop a puppy factor and save the dogs without going through the hardships you are recommending.  This is one idea that happened practically overnight, bing bang, its done.  I am sure there are many many more innovative ideas out there.

DPU

Chuffy

DPU, no one said it was a good situation.  But enabling the people treating dogs like puppy factories is even less desirable in my opinion.

And you approve and actively advocate and encourage the suffering and torment of puppies to accomplish your end. 

 

Not at all.  Mistreatment of animals is never an option.  

If an animal is not being cared for adequately in a pet shop, report it.  

It's about education of the puppy buying public and those same puppy buyers, having been educated, stepping up to the plate and reporting those incidents.

There is generally another way to improve the pups quality of life other than buying the puppy and enabling the businesses who caused him to suffer, to continue.

DPU

And you approve and actively advocate and encourage the suffering and torment of puppies to accomplish your end.  This thread shows how to stop a puppy factor and save the dogs without going through the hardships you are recommending.  This is one idea that happened practically overnight, bing bang, its done.  I am sure there are many many more innovative ideas out there.

Oh, good grief. I seriously doubt that raising the funds to buy the largest puppy producing facility in the state was done bing, bang, practically overnight. I seriously doubt that vetting and rehabbing and rehoming 1200 unsocialized dogs is going to be a matter of bing, bang overnight. Although it disturbs me that the person who ran this operation now gets rewarded with a nice retirement nest egg, in the long run, I do think it is a win that the operation was purchased and shut down, rather than bought up by another producer. But, regardless of how one feels about this particular purchase, it is very different from the "rescuer" who purchases puppies from pet stores, thereby financially aiding and abetting the puppy mass-production industry. I don't make that comment "from the sidelines". I do foster and rescue dogs. But, I want there to be fewer dogs needing rescue and fostering the future, not more, and so far I haven't noticed an shortage of dogs in need of fostering and rescue in shelters. I haven't found it necessary to financially reward puppy factories in order to be deeply involved in rescue. Although I strongly support the careful highly selective breeding and placement of puppies, I cannot condone financial support of puppy factories. To claim that anyone who withholds financial support of puppy factories is approving of and actively advocating and encouraging the suffering and torment of puppies is absurd. It's the person who turns over hundreds of dollars to the puppy factory so that the puppy factory has a financial incentive to produce more poorly bred puppies from breeding stock kept in deplorable conditions who is doing the active encouragement of the suffering and torment of dogs.

buster the show dog

To claim that anyone who withholds financial support of puppy factories is approving of and actively advocating and encouraging the suffering and torment of puppies is absurd.

Its not absurb, what is absurb is singing the same song over and over again and relying on others to solve the problem that is so "near and dear".  Fact, your advocacy puts pups in jeopardy.  You can't come up with another alternative?  WI HS did.

If you are not on the sidelines, then you must know that within rescue operation things happen very fast.  I doubt very much there was a lot of time involved and I suspect with the publicity a lot of dogs will be adopted fast.

DPU

Its not absurb, what is absurb is singing the same song over and over again and relying on others to solve the problem that is so "near and dear".  Fact, your advocacy puts pups in jeopardy.  You can't come up with another alternative?  WI HS did.

And I'm not criticizing WI HS since their actions didn't provide a financial incentive for puppy factories to continue to churn out puppies. And no, my advocacy that one not financially support puppy factories by purchasing puppies from pet stores is not what puts puppies in jeopardy. It is the commercial production of puppies (among other things) that puts them in jeopardy, and buying pet store puppies is aiding and abetting the very commercial system that jeopardizes the puppies. Got room and time to foster yet another dog? Terrific! Go to the local shelter and do just that. One can do all the rescue one can possibly manage without ever contributing a nickel to the puppy manufacturing industry.

DPU

If you are not on the sidelines, then you must know that within rescue operation things happen very fast.  I doubt very much there was a lot of time involved and I suspect with the publicity a lot of dogs will be adopted fast.

I've been off the sidelines long enough to know that the fund raising that took place to make this purchase possible did NOT happen very fast, and it's an insult to the tremendous amount of effort that went into the fund raising that enabled WI HS to take this action to imply that it was a matter of "bing bing" and "overnight". And, while it is quite possible that many of the dogs involved will be adopted fairly quickly, it is also true that 1200 other dogs in shelters won't be adopted because their potential homes went to dogs that benefitted from being part of a big publicity case. But, regardless of whether one agrees with the action of WI HS (and I pretty much do) this is very different from making substantial financial contributions to the continuation of puppy mills which is what one does every time one purchases a puppy from a pet store.

Chuffy

2bully

Chuffy

2bully

Now those 1200 dogs will get added to the "overpopulation" agenda, when in reality they were purchased. See I find it a hard pill to swallow that "overpopulation" gets bandied around yet a shelter buys 1200 dogs and its considered a win.

 

Sorry but this is almost laughable it is so ridiculous.  Over population means there are more dogs than there are homes.  It has nothing to do with how many dogs are purchased.... its to do with how many EXIST against how many homes are available

 Prove your theory. I contend that any info you would provide will be based on shelter intake, adoptions, and euthanation rates. So the purchase of 1200 dogs at a single time will have no effect on intake, adoption, or euthanation numbers. So using your definition that you provided there must be 1200 homes lined up for those dogs already, because in order for them not to be added to the "overpopulation" there must be homes available.

 

Sigh.  They were ALREADY part of the overpopulation BEFORE they were purchased.  They may not have been reflected in your bible of statistics and reports, but they still existed and they still needed a home.  

 Prove that there are more dogs than homes available.

2bully

Chuffy

2bully

Chuffy

2bully

Now those 1200 dogs will get added to the "overpopulation" agenda, when in reality they were purchased. See I find it a hard pill to swallow that "overpopulation" gets bandied around yet a shelter buys 1200 dogs and its considered a win.

 

Sorry but this is almost laughable it is so ridiculous.  Over population means there are more dogs than there are homes.  It has nothing to do with how many dogs are purchased.... its to do with how many EXIST against how many homes are available

 Prove your theory. I contend that any info you would provide will be based on shelter intake, adoptions, and euthanation rates. So the purchase of 1200 dogs at a single time will have no effect on intake, adoption, or euthanation numbers. So using your definition that you provided there must be 1200 homes lined up for those dogs already, because in order for them not to be added to the "overpopulation" there must be homes available.

 

Sigh.  They were ALREADY part of the overpopulation BEFORE they were purchased.  They may not have been reflected in your bible of statistics and reports, but they still existed and they still needed a home.  

 Prove that there are more dogs than homes available.

 

Laughs condescendingly. 

AKON.  Reason for euth: SPACE.

ELI.   Reason for euth: SPACE

Thea's Babies   Reason for euth: SPACE

LORETTA  Reason for euth: SPACE

How long have you got?  There are literally hundreds of these dogs dogs dying from lack of space.... on just ONE website.  if there were homes aplenty to house them all then where are they?  Why are all these dogs dying?  

 

 

Chuffy

2bully

Chuffy

2bully

Chuffy

2bully

Now those 1200 dogs will get added to the "overpopulation" agenda, when in reality they were purchased. See I find it a hard pill to swallow that "overpopulation" gets bandied around yet a shelter buys 1200 dogs and its considered a win.

 

Sorry but this is almost laughable it is so ridiculous.  Over population means there are more dogs than there are homes.  It has nothing to do with how many dogs are purchased.... its to do with how many EXIST against how many homes are available

 Prove your theory. I contend that any info you would provide will be based on shelter intake, adoptions, and euthanation rates. So the purchase of 1200 dogs at a single time will have no effect on intake, adoption, or euthanation numbers. So using your definition that you provided there must be 1200 homes lined up for those dogs already, because in order for them not to be added to the "overpopulation" there must be homes available.

 

Sigh.  They were ALREADY part of the overpopulation BEFORE they were purchased.  They may not have been reflected in your bible of statistics and reports, but they still existed and they still needed a home.  

 Prove that there are more dogs than homes available.

 

Laughs condescendingly. 

AKON.  Reason for euth: SPACE.

ELI.   Reason for euth: SPACE

Thea's Babies   Reason for euth: SPACE

LORETTA  Reason for euth: SPACE

How long have you got?  There are literally hundreds of these dogs dogs dying from lack of space.... on just ONE website.  if there were homes aplenty to house them all then where are they?  Why are all these dogs dying?  

 

 

Killing an animal for lack of space isn't proof of an "overpopulation". It shows a lack of the shelter's ability to adopt out those pets.

Based on data from the American Veterinary Medical Association, the American Animal Hospital Association, the Pet Food Manufacturers Association, and the latest census, there are more than enough homes for every dog and cat being killed in shelters every year.There are more homes for cats and dogs opening each year than there are cats and dogs even entering shelters.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/10/02/petscol.DTL

 I provided proof of my position. Where's your proof?

2bully you keep posting that link but all it does is make a general reference to "data".  Where is the data?

Data from my locale proves otherwise.

Overpopulation or no overpopulationg, the fact is that some dogs are dying once they get into the shelter system.  The reason is dog lovers not stepping up to volunteer.  You can not put in place all those Retention programs unless there is manpower to support them.  Blaming the shelter that is at least saving most of the dogs that come through the door only discourages volunteers from coming forward.  You can live with that?  Kind of goes against your goals.  You need to rethink your strategy.

2bully

Chuffy

2bully

Chuffy

2bully

Chuffy

2bully

Now those 1200 dogs will get added to the "overpopulation" agenda, when in reality they were purchased. See I find it a hard pill to swallow that "overpopulation" gets bandied around yet a shelter buys 1200 dogs and its considered a win.

 

Sorry but this is almost laughable it is so ridiculous.  Over population means there are more dogs than there are homes.  It has nothing to do with how many dogs are purchased.... its to do with how many EXIST against how many homes are available

 Prove your theory. I contend that any info you would provide will be based on shelter intake, adoptions, and euthanation rates. So the purchase of 1200 dogs at a single time will have no effect on intake, adoption, or euthanation numbers. So using your definition that you provided there must be 1200 homes lined up for those dogs already, because in order for them not to be added to the "overpopulation" there must be homes available.

 

Sigh.  They were ALREADY part of the overpopulation BEFORE they were purchased.  They may not have been reflected in your bible of statistics and reports, but they still existed and they still needed a home.  

 Prove that there are more dogs than homes available.

 

Laughs condescendingly. 

AKON.  Reason for euth: SPACE.

ELI.   Reason for euth: SPACE

Thea's Babies   Reason for euth: SPACE

LORETTA  Reason for euth: SPACE

How long have you got?  There are literally hundreds of these dogs dogs dying from lack of space.... on just ONE website.  if there were homes aplenty to house them all then where are they?  Why are all these dogs dying?  

 

 

Killing an animal for lack of space isn't proof of an "overpopulation". It shows a lack of the shelter's ability to adopt out those pets.

 

What are you doing at your shelter to get those dogs out faster... and make sure they dont come back?

 I will not make a call on this at this point, because I believe folks in that environment are there because they love animals and are doing all they can.  Maybe that is too charitable of me.... I don't know.

2bully

Based on data from the American Veterinary Medical Association, the American Animal Hospital Association, the Pet Food Manufacturers Association, and the latest census, there are more than enough homes for every dog and cat being killed in shelters every year.There are more homes for cats and dogs opening each year than there are cats and dogs even entering shelters.

 

What "data"?  How have they calculated this?  I am missing something here...

DPU

Overpopulation or no overpopulationg, the fact is that some dogs are dying once they get into the shelter system.  The reason is dog lovers not stepping up to volunteer.  You can not put in place all those Retention programs unless there is manpower to support them.  Blaming the shelter that is at least saving most of the dogs that come through the door only discourages volunteers from coming forward.  You can live with that?  Kind of goes against your goals.  You need to rethink your strategy.

 

Thank you!

sheesh