Oprah on Puppymills

snownose

AND, how exactly do you enforce this part of the contract?

What happens when the owners move, change phone number, divorce or death happens......or simply don't want to deal with the dog anymore.....let's say you still have the phone number and happen to check( which most breeders don't), and give you a story the dog ran away.........too much ground to cover......

I am not against breeding.....but, I have had to deal with so many rescues.......it is flat out sickening......

 My screening and the breed I am dealing with make the dogs going to really ignorant owners much less likely. But of course there is always a chance of something going wrong, just like there is with shelter/rescue adoptions. How do rescues/shelters enforce contracts?

timsdat

snownose

Just wanted to add.......why breed?

Now what do you think would happen if everyone felt that way?

Would you seriously like everyone to stop breeding?

 

Never said that.....but, one must ask this question...."What am I adding"

You have to understand........I have rescued many purebreds and it seems that there is in incredible influx of new pups......I have no idea how to solve this problem.....I just don't feel what is happening at this point is a good world for dogs.....JMO, though....

AgileGSD

My screening and the breed I am dealing with make the dogs going to really ignorant owners much less likely. But of course there is always a chance of something going wrong, just like there is with shelter/rescue adoptions. How do rescues/shelters enforce contracts?

Just like your approach.....but, then we are the second or third or forth and so on chance for the dog......we try to save, not add by free will.....or just because, we feel like it......a dog's life means something to me......

I am interested in how you actually screen......you visit the future owner's home....talk to the vet....talk to all references.....do follow up visits? Do you request to stay in touch, and actually follow up on it? Have the future owner come and parade the dog around months after the purchase?

Some rescues are super tight with adoption.....

snownose

I have rescued many purebreds and it seems that there is in incredible influx of new pups

Can that be quantified though.  Do you have multi year statistics to show there there are many more dogs going to shelters?  I happen to have the shelter statistics from California for the last 5 years.  Both the number entering shelters and being euth is dropping every year even while the general population is growing.

I'm pretty radical--I think that if we could convince Americans to not BUY one more dog for a couple of years, we'd have a different dog society.

I can only say that I am glad I never went through the research, the flying around the country, the interviews, and the assurances that many of my friends have gone through. And I'm glad I never paid as much, either. To say that HD most often shows up years later sounds just like a reassuring breeder to me. How can pain be given that kind of judgment? I know one woman who's paid more than a car, now, for her dog.

Pain becomes an issue of compensation, both physical (as it tends to "spread" over the years) and monetary. If somebody buys a dog with a guarantee and then forks out thousands for the rest of its life--that becomes a trust issue. Pain--emotional for the owner (and then pocketbook)--and physical for the dog--is hard to categorize and judge.

But I guess it's the owner's problem--it always is. Returning $500 doesn't quite cut it and being given a second dog is asking for more trouble.

We should stop handing over our money that only enables dog production. Let them go bankrupt and then we can see what's left. My guess is we'd lose the majority of the "don't care" breeders out there.

timsdat

snownose

I have rescued many purebreds and it seems that there is in incredible influx of new pups

Can that be quantified though.  Do you have multi year statistics to show there there are many more dogs going to shelters?  I happen to have the shelter statistics from California for the last 5 years.  Both the number entering shelters and being euth is dropping every year even while the general population is growing.

 

 

Statistics are exactly that...."Statistics"..........most animals would make great pets, but still get euthanized.....I am not blaming all shelters euths on breeders......but, the fact of having purebreds find each other on the street is pretty slim....

nfowler

I'm pretty radical--I think that if we could convince Americans to not BUY one more dog for a couple of years, we'd have a different dog society.

O that is good.  Do you think that we can just put those females on ice for a few years and thaw them out later to breed.   There is a limited time window for females to breed.  You lose that window and that is it and that would do wonders to the genetic diversity factor.

No--I think in that timeframe we'd get used to seeing other dogs as OK-to-own instead of breeder-produced dogs.

nfowler

No--I think in that timeframe we'd get used to seeing other dogs as OK-to-own instead of breeder-produced dogs.

And when those dogs die where do we get the next generation?

There aren't nearly enough dogs in shelters to satisfiy the yearly demand for new dogs in households.

Again--lower demand (or stop it altogether), stop production. It works everywhere else in America; the more we buy the more they make. Stop buying--stop production.

Pro-breeders have great points--why blame them? Why not blame ourselves? Why keep turning over money to breeders?

nfowler

Stop buying--stop production.

= no more dogs.

Do you really think that you could get americans to stop owning and wanting dogs. 

Oh boy--the marketing for purebred puppies is pretty darn good. Of course Americans won't stop--but they should. It's obvious we have an overpopulation issue in this country; blaming breeders isn't working--they still get $$. We should blame ourselves, as buyers, instead.

A "couple of years" IS NOT THE LIFETIME OF A DOG!!!  It's the amount of time that SHOULD be taken for dogs on the ground now to grow and develop and prove themselves to be exemplary examples of their breed after which is the right time to breed them.  NOT when they are a year because they came from good lines.  All of those unforeseen issues you breeders are claiming can't be conditioned for are unseen at that age for the most part and will be passed on in ALOT of cases.

During that "couple of years" those families who LOVE LOVE LOVE AND MUST MUST MUST have the border collies, and german shepherds, and pekes and poos can adopt the MILLIONS that are in shelters and breed rescue across the nation and maybe, in the meantime, actually LEARN something about the breed they think is so cool that they want.  Alot of them will be returned to said shelters and breed rescues because what they THOUGHT the dog was like is not what the dog actually IS (like loads of BCs who people adopt because of the ones in the media).  But what WON'T happen during that "couple of years" is new dogs ending up adding to the population and the problems.

And the uber-special, oh so rare, oh we must save them before they disappear like the dodo breeds can 1) bank sperm from their sires and 2) monitor and make sure their dams are worthy of being bred, not just to perpetuate a rare breed, but because they are HEALTHY SOUND representatives of their breed.  

I'm pretty radical as well after volunteering in a kill shelter.  If I had to live the rest of my life without a pet in my life so that not one more adoptable cat or dog would die in a shelter, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

nfowler

But I guess it's the owner's problem--it always is. Returning $500 doesn't quite cut it and being given a second dog is asking for more trouble.

We should stop handing over our money that only enables dog production. Let them go bankrupt and then we can see what's left. My guess is we'd lose the majority of the "don't care" breeders out there.

 Why is that asking for more problems? Just because you don't like purebreds, no one should buy one?

BCMixs

A "couple of years" IS NOT THE LIFETIME OF A DOG!!! 

Most breeders won't breed a female after they are 6 and wait to start until they are older that 2.  That isn't very many years.

BCMixs

I'm pretty radical

You sure are.  Your ideas would destroy all breeds in this country and we would be left with very few dogs.