Iditarod 2008 fatality update

    • Gold Top Dog

    DrOgreys
      Perhaps we should reserve "risky sport" to those who willingly choose to participate, rather than those who are forced to... please don't argue the "they are bred for..." aspect. I am fervently involved in the quest to eliminate greyhound racing. I have argued with the best of them.

    Any human endeavor which involves our unwilling, lesser creatures for the purpose of sport, entertainment, or greed is indefensible.

    Those sled dogs are willingly pulling those sleds the same with greyhounds running the track. If they didn't want to run or pull they wouldn't.  The only reason that these dogs exist to begin with is to participate in these sports. 

     

    • Gold Top Dog
    Ado

    So whats the point?  Are all dogs suppose to be lap dogs then?  How many dogs die or live a shorten life because their owners over feed them, exercise them little or allow them to get hit by cars?  That is neglegence.   How is it neglegent in the case of this sled dog?  It sounds like everything was done for the dog and it recieved treatment quickly. 

    I don't think anyone is implying that all dogs should sit on the couch and eat bon bons. The point is that there is risk involved in these sports and that we as humans, their owners, allow them to face that risk. It's not a random act, it's a known outcome to a certain activity. Saying that this is what the dogs origionally were breed for doesn't make it ok to put them at significant risk IMO. We are responsible for their welfare. What bothers me is putting one's head in the sand so to speak and not facing the outcome of their choices. You choose the risk your pet faces and you need to own up when they are harmed. Again, I don't know how anyone can say that the dog was treated appropriately, all you have is a few lines in a story, but I would hope that it was. Aspiration pneumonia, while more serious then run of the mill pneumonia should not kill you. Negligence in this case would not be recognizing the signs of aspiration pneumonia when it's a known event.
    • Gold Top Dog

    timsdat
    Those sled dogs are willingly pulling those sleds the same with greyhounds running the track. If they didn't want to run or pull they wouldn't.  The only reason that these dogs exist to begin with is to participate in these sports. 

     

    Yeah, those dogs love to pull sleds in the beginning......but, at times they get sick, have an injury or simply have had enough and poop out.....Ramy Brooks beat the crap out of his dogs last Iditarod when they simply laid down and were spent and done.......by the way....he was disqualified......

    • Gold Top Dog

    snownose
    Yeah, those dogs love to pull sleds in the beginning......but, at times they get sick, have an injury or simply have had enough and poop out.....Ramy Brooks beat the crap out of his dogs last Iditarod when they simply laid down and were spent and done.......by the way....he was disqualified......

     

     There are always those who will do something like this in order to win. I have seen dogs working obedience that would pee in fear of their handlers which told me that the handler used abusive training methods in order to compete. At least the rules of the race are clear and do not allow beating the dogs and it is good that the disqualified this guy. Hopefully they also barred him from ever competeing again.

     There is no doubt the race is hard on the dogs, I looked at all of the scratches this year and every one scratched due to condition of team with only one saying condition of handler and team. A few mentioned the warmer weather as being a factor in takin a toll on their dogs.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yes, there are crazy people everywhere.....what I am trying to get across is......

    1. I love the sport.....mushing should be fun.......

    2. It appears that the Iditarod is extremely tough on dogs and doesn't really honor the original serum run......so, why put so many dogs at risk?

    Every year mushers scratch due to illness, death, loss and even mushers get hurt.....it's not just this year......

    • Gold Top Dog

    Snownose, I think you make a really strong argument for revamping the race protocols. Thanks for sharing your ideas. I think it's very unfortunate when we humans drag our animals into the bigger-better-faster race - if we humans want to push ourselves beyond the realm of physically possible, fine. But I think we need to relax our expectations somewhat when it comes to animal sports. Not just with dogs - many equine sports IMO pose an unjustifiable risk to the horses involved. Time for our species to step up the stewardship a bit, IMO. If animals are consistently dying in any sport, I think the sport needs to be reorganized with a better eye for safety. JMO of course. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Cita

    Snownose, I think you make a really strong argument for revamping the race protocols. Thanks for sharing your ideas. I think it's very unfortunate when we humans drag our animals into the bigger-better-faster race - if we humans want to push ourselves beyond the realm of physically possible, fine. But I think we need to relax our expectations somewhat when it comes to animal sports. Not just with dogs - many equine sports IMO pose an unjustifiable risk to the horses involved. Time for our species to step up the stewardship a bit, IMO. If animals are consistently dying in any sport, I think the sport needs to be reorganized with a better eye for safety. JMO of course. 

    Good post......

    Yes, it has gotten bigger and faster....as a matter of fact, the pure bred Sibe hasn't got a chance in this race......Karen Ramstead runs a team of pure Sibes, and these dogs are simply too heavy and too slow........the racing dogs in the Iditarod and other races are "Alaskan Huskies".....cute name for Sibes that have been cross bred with Hounds......another human invention to win races.......

    • Gold Top Dog

    Snownose, very good thread.  It sounds like it is time to change the race.

     

    • Bronze

    OK, I can't keep quiet.  Please take the time to read about the race and the dogs, the information is available online.  PETA, Sleddog Coalition, etc, are not reliable sources for information on this topic, the information they put out is INCREDIBLY distorted.  There are historical books that are largely unbiased and lay out the facts.  The best information--first hand accounts of their own experiences and observations of other mushers--IMO has come from the books written by some of the mushers themselves.

     I actually run sleddogs (Malamutes) and have been around dogs who have run the race. I have been around Alaskan Huskies in general and have seen their intensity. 

    For starters,  96 teams started the race.  Presuming everyone started with 16 dogs as is normal, that is 1,536 dogs.  We are now at day 13.  I GUARANTEE you if you took a sampling of 1,536 dogs in the pet population with age ranges similar to those who run the race (young dogs to old dogs) and track them over the course of 13 days or however long it takes for the race to be over, there will be more than 3 dead dogs--illness, hit by car, freak stuff, age.  Since it's not natural to be hit by a car, does that mean no people should drive--it's causing animal deaths isn't it?  There are a lot of unnatural deaths, many preventable in a matter of speaking.  I have worked in the veterinary field for about 8 years now, the cremation places wouldn't still be in business if only 3 dogs out of 1536 in a 1100 mile stretch died over a 13 day span.  Yes, it's really sad that these dogs passed away, no way would I ever want to diminish that and I feel horrible for their mushers, but that number is actually quite impressive in my opinion and showing that the dogs ARE getting looked over and the ones unfit to continue are being removed from the race.  While they breeze through some checkpoints with just a quick look, they get complete checks at others.  Mushers are the best at seeing there is something wrong with their dogs, they spend more time every week with these dogs than the rest of us do with our housepets.  The mandatory rests in the race are not for the mushers, they are for the dogs.  There are requirements for equipment and food on the sled:  specifically dealing with how much food must be carried per dog. 

     Dogs are dropped throughout the race for a number of reasons.  Some are on the team as youngsters to get experience with a plan to drop them later.  Some are on the team because they are exceptional on a certain part of the trail....every dog on every team has its place, success is gained when you can get dogs who complement each other.  Once a dog has gotten them through that place they were needed, they're sent home to rest.  Females go into season.  And perhaps the most non-dog related of the bunch:  as they near the end of the race some just want their core 7-10 dogs who are the hardest workers.  For every dog you're required to carry 'X' amount of food on the sled.  The less extra weight they're pulling, the better.  Dogs are dropped for strategy....not just because they aren't fit to continue. 

    Alaskan Huskies (not to be confused with Alaskan Malamutes or Siberian Huskies, both of which are purebreds) are bred for one thing:  to run.  They love it.  Dogs who don't run are placed with other teams as no serious musher has time to work with a dog who lacks drive.  They are typically HORRIBLE pets, far too intense for most people.  Heck, they're too intense for me, I've only ever met ONE I could stand owning.   

    On the mals I knew who ran the race:  they lived on average 3 years longer than the dogs in the kennel who were not so heavily trained.  They ran in the team much longer than their kennelmates, becoming puppy trainers in their later years.     

    • Gold Top Dog

    powderhound
    Dogs are dropped for strategy....not just because they aren't fit to continue. 

     

    So, mushers that scratched citing "Illness" in reference to their team was just a strategy???

    powderhound
    Alaskan Huskies (not to be confused with Alaskan Malamutes or Siberian Huskies, both of which are purebreds) are bred for one thing:  to run.  They love it.  Dogs who don't run are placed with other teams as no serious musher has time to work with a dog who lacks drive.  They are typically HORRIBLE pets, far too intense for most people.  Heck, they're too intense for me, I've only ever met ONE I could stand owning. 

    So, what happens to the ones that don't cut it for races.....how are they being disposed off? According to your experience, they are worthless as pets.....

    powderhound
    On the mals I knew who ran the race:  they lived on average 3 years longer than the dogs in the kennel who were not so heavily trained.  They ran in the team much longer than their kennelmates, becoming puppy trainers in their later years. 

    Of course, that makes sense.....as I know that sled dogs are not kept in an open enclosure....most of them spent time on 6' chains....not like a regular, well cared for and exercised Malamute.......

    • Gold Top Dog

    IDITAROD XXXVI ADVISORY

    by Mark Nordman, Race Marshall

    IDITAROD XXXVI ADVISORY

    DATE:          March 12, 2008      

    TO:              Race Officials

                         Race Veterinarians

                         Media

                         Volunteers

    A 4-year-old male named ‘Cargo' died at 5:00 pm on Tuesday March 11, 2008.  Cargo was part of the team of Kotzebue Alaska musher, Ed Iten (Bib #32).   He passed away between Elim and White Mountain.

    A necropsy will be conducted by a board certified pathologist to make every attempt to determine the cause of death.

    cc:      Stu Nelson, D.V.M., Chief Veterinarian

              ITC Board of Directors

              Stan Hooley, Executive Director

    • Gold Top Dog

    snownose

    Ramy Brooks beat the crap out of his dogs last Iditarod when they simply laid down and were spent and done.......by the way....he was disqualified......

     

    RAMEY BROOKS DID NOT "BEAT THE CRAP" OUT OF HIS DOGS.

     In fact, almost ALL of what was reported was LIES. The news media jumped on this and MADE THINGS UP, as did some so-called "witnesses."

    Ramey and his family are personal friends of mine. I KNOW THE REAL STORY and I have gone over this time and again even on this board. I have been to his dog yard, I have been to his house, met his helpers, I know his family. He is NOT a dog abuser.

    I'm not interested in going into this whole thing again. I do have to say I'm sick and tired of people who have no experience whatsoever with dog mushing or Alaska or WINTER even, who get on a high horse about how horrible dog mushing is. Over-emotional and romanticized ideas have no place in this. I'm not pointing this comment at anyone at all in particular. I'm just really tired of the ignorant who think they know better for everyone, when in reality they have no clue and no experience.

    Not all dogs are pets. Not all huskies are going to be pets, no matter what you do. Dog mushing is NEVER going to be illegal in ALASKA. LET IT GO.

    Think about this: 

    How many dogs die simply because their owners piddle around and whine because they "can't afford" the vet, or the timing is wrong to take them to the vet, or they don't know how to recognize when a dog is in trouble? FAR FAR more often than a sled dog dies. 

     


    • Gold Top Dog

     Admin speaking...

    This is a thread on a subject people feel passionately about, but I would appreciate it if this could be discussed calmly and and rationally.  If anyone has any questions on that, please contact me privately. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    jeano

    RAMEY BROOKS DID NOT "BEAT THE CRAP" OUT OF HIS DOGS.

     In fact, almost ALL of what was reported was LIES. The news media jumped on this and MADE THINGS UP, as did some so-called "witnesses."

    Ramey and his family are personal friends of mine. I KNOW THE REAL STORY and I have gone over this time and again even on this board. I have been to his dog yard, I have been to his house, met his helpers, I know his family. He is NOT a dog abuser.

    Honestly, this is hard to swallow......why would a school teacher and students....and there were a few other folks who witnessed this lie about Brooks? What is their motivation behind it?

    There was even a statement that he used his fist to hit a dog.....now, what would be the motivation for Brooks to admit to this? Of course, he is going to deny that......

    • Gold Top Dog

    It would be humane to limit the amount of time the dogs have to run and change them out for other dogs to avoid the medical issues that are due directly to the over exhaustion of the animals.

    If the dogs are not good dogs to live with, makes you wonder what the quality of life is for the times that they are not being run.   I have heard that the dogs that do these races do get depressed when they are not able to run for weather reasons etc.  They are beautiful animals. They should have more than a singular reason to live.

    Treatment of animals is something that is important, in any case.