What should be the punishment for people involved in dog fighting?

Thalie, I can see how my initial posts could be read wrong, I didnt exactly choose the best wording.

 For example, when I said that the people I was talking about shouldn't be punished "as harshly" what i meant was that they should be given a chance to change as opposed to just locking them up and throwing away the key. Because if we can even change at 1%, it is worth it. Does that make more sense now? I hope so.

Or we could simply allow jail house justice and house them with really violent lifers who happen to love animals, then show a film of what a dog fight really is... nature would then shorten our tax bill.

 Bonita, I'm not picking you out in particular (this was just the most recent quote) but of people in general responding to dogfighting...I find it interesting that for people who are so against violence and so "pro" violence when a person is guilty. How does a "guilty" life deserve torture and death while an "innocent" life does not?

Non-violent punishment such as jail, of course that is needed and appropriate, but seriously...

Its like saying "This kid didn't hit anyone on the playground, therefore it is not ok for me to hit him" but then saying "This kid hit someone else on the playground, therefore it is ok to go and hit them" Would you teach your kids that?  I know we are all very passionate on the subject, but we need to remember that we need to keep ourselves above, morally, the people who engage in violence and vengeance and bloodsport.

whtsthfrequency

So there was no point in your upbringing where you started thinking independently? 

I find that statement a bit insulting. Was there no point in your upbringing when you learned discretion and manners?  To answer your question, No, there was a point where I got caught for doing something a punished accordingly (and not by being thrown in juv det, but being educated and forced to learn about what it was I was doing). People do not just wake up one day and realize that "Oh! They were wrong!"...there needs to be a reason why you start thinking differently, and some people never get that reason. Not everyone is a lucky as you that they can just see at 13 why something is wrong. I sure wasn't, and that doesn't make me stupid or a bad person.

It was not intended to be insulting, it was a serious question.  If you are going to hold yourself up as an example in a discussion such as this I'm not sure why you expect not to be questioned.  I never said that you were "stupid" or "bad" but I am in contact with many teenagers from many walks of life and honestly have not met one who at one point has not questioned their parents.  For many teenagers, I would say that the fact that their parents believe something is enough for them to question it.

I know many people who stopped believing what their parents do religiously not because of some earth shattering event, but because one day they're like "Wait, that doesn't make sense" or "Wow, this is stupid," etc.  This happens everyday.  If you can dispute any of the examples I gave, you are welcome to. 

I'm sure you realize that dog fighting laws are notorious for NOT being properly enforced, so we really don't know if the rotting in jail plan with work until we have locked up every last dog fighter, now do we?  As someone who is tired of being worried about her dog being stolen, it's worth a shot.  Personally, I think we should stop locking people up for stupid offenses like drug use and prostitution and start locking them up longer for things like animal cruelty.

Of course I questioned my parents on things....but the issue was that did not happen to be one of them, because at the time, it "made sense" to me, and no one ever questioned me or told me different because I was surrounded by people who generally felt the same.

Personally, I think we should stop locking people up for stupid offenses like drug use and prostitution and start locking them up longer for things like animal cruelty

That I can agree with.

Bonita of Bwana

I am in a very mellow mood this morning,  but this, this topic makes me burn.  You can not tell me the same person who embraces the "sport" of dog fighting raises healthy whole children. 

We must remember that up until recent history dog fighting was socially acceptable and legal.  Bloodsports involving animals has been part of probably every culture.  In many other parts of the world blood sports involving animals is still legal including dog fighting. 

You can not tell me the same person who embraces the "sport" of dog fighting raises healthy whole children

In a way..you could say that anyone who embraces eating meat (since farm animals who are passed through low-quality factory farms are pretty much tortured and killed only for human culinary enjoyment) cannot raise healthy, whole children.

 I understand your anger , I have it as well, but again, that's a generalization and generalizations make me bristle :) I understand your point but logically it is not a valid arguement (in my opinion...trying to tiptoe here)

Moderator speaking...once again.

Another general warning... 

Please dial down the sarcasm and indignation a bit if humanly possible. Sometimes agreeing to disagree is a great thing. I think we are all capable of communicating respectfully even when we are heated up about one thing or another. Don't prove me wrong folks.

Thanks.

whtsthfrequency

Or we could simply allow jail house justice and house them with really violent lifers who happen to love animals, then show a film of what a dog fight really is... nature would then shorten our tax bill.

 Bonita, I'm not picking you out in particular (this was just the most recent quote) but of people in general responding to dogfighting...I find it interesting that for people who are so against violence and so "pro" violence when a person is guilty. How does a "guilty" life deserve torture and death while an "innocent" life does not?

Non-violent punishment such as jail, of course that is needed and appropriate, but seriously...

Its like saying "This kid didn't hit anyone on the playground, therefore it is not ok for me to hit him" but then saying "This kid hit someone else on the playground, therefore it is ok to go and hit them" Would you teach your kids that?  I know we are all very passionate on the subject, but we need to remember that we need to keep ourselves above, morally, the people who engage in violence and vengeance and bloodsport.

See, this is something that I am honestly very torn about.  As a Christian, I know I should pray for these people and be all non-violent, yada, yada, yada.  However, there is a huge part of me that wants nothing more than to see people like Micheal Vick boiled in oil on a public square.  Maybe it makes me a bad person, but I've tried, and I cannot pray for dog fighters.  I just have this visceral reaction to them--IDK, maybe it's because I have a pit who DH and I consider part of the family, and feel like a dog fighter is to dogs as a child molester is to children.   

timsdat

Bonita of Bwana

I am in a very mellow mood this morning,  but this, this topic makes me burn.  You can not tell me the same person who embraces the "sport" of dog fighting raises healthy whole children. 

We must remember that up until recent history dog fighting was socially acceptable and legal.  Bloodsports involving animals has been part of probably every culture.  In many other parts of the world blood sports involving animals is still legal including dog fighting. 

 

Not quite sure what your point is here.  It was not long ago that it was legal for a man to rape his wife, and in some countries it is still legal.  However, I do not believe that this effects how we should handle it *here.*  It was not so long ago in this country that is was legal and socially acceptable to belong to a group such as the KKK, and harass minorities.  However, that should not effect how we deal with such individuals in the modern day.  It wasn't so long ago in this country that it was legal and accepted for adult men to marry young girls, and this still goes on in many different countries.  Here however, it is a sex crime.

However, there is a huge part of me that wants nothing more than to see people like Micheal Vick boiled in oil on a public square.  Maybe it makes me a bad person, but I've tried, and I cannot pray for dog fighters.  I just have this visceral reaction to them--IDK, maybe it's because I have a pit who DH and I consider part of the family, and feel like a dog fighter is to dogs as a child molester is to

I can totally understand that. I am anti-death penalty on principle, but let me tell you, there is NOTHING I would like more than to throw the switch on a guy who raped a six year old. Its a very difficult when belief sets conflict. I believe it is just up to us to "control" that violent side of our nature, even if some other people, ie dogfighters, do not.

sillysally

timsdat

Bonita of Bwana

I am in a very mellow mood this morning,  but this, this topic makes me burn.  You can not tell me the same person who embraces the "sport" of dog fighting raises healthy whole children. 

We must remember that up until recent history dog fighting was socially acceptable and legal.  Bloodsports involving animals has been part of probably every culture.  In many other parts of the world blood sports involving animals is still legal including dog fighting. 

 

Not quite sure what your point is here. 

My point is this.  It was stated that children raised around bloodsports are not "healthy".  So in these other places where bloodsports are legal and accepted are the children unhealthy?

I don't know,you keep saying these people should be educated,I don't feel they want to be educated. If that was the case, the drop out rate wouldn't be so high.  These people aren't stupid, they're STREET SMART. They quickly learn the fast way to get around things, to steal cause it's easier than working, and how to make fast money--dogfighting. so if they can learn all this so fast, how come they can't learn right from wrong.  They're smarter than we think! All the education in the world isn't going to help them, because 9 times out of 10,  when they're let out of jail, they're committing a crime again.

timsdat

sillysally

timsdat

Bonita of Bwana

I am in a very mellow mood this morning,  but this, this topic makes me burn.  You can not tell me the same person who embraces the "sport" of dog fighting raises healthy whole children. 

We must remember that up until recent history dog fighting was socially acceptable and legal.  Bloodsports involving animals has been part of probably every culture.  In many other parts of the world blood sports involving animals is still legal including dog fighting. 

 

Not quite sure what your point is here. 

My point is this.  You stated that children raised around bloodsports are not "healthy".  So in these other places where bloodsports are legal and accepted are the children unhealthy?

 

Read again.  I did not say that.... 

timsdat

My point is this.  You stated that children raised around bloodsports are not "healthy".  So in these other places where bloodsports are legal and accepted are the children unhealthy?

Good point, I think the answer is that they are going to be damaged emotionally, which I consider unhealthy.

My reasoning: they are being desensitized to something that is horrific and sad, and most people, when confronted with the same scenario feel those emotions. If those emotions are not present, as they clearly are not for the swine who participate in dog fighting, then something is seriously wrong with the health of the individual's psyche.

sillysally

Read again.  I did not say that.... 

Sorry missed that.  I'll fix the post.