What should be the punishment for people involved in dog fighting?

Thats a bit harsh Steve...this is a doggie forum...so we talk about dogs here! We are just as worried about our military too but we talk about that on our other forums It doesn't make dogs more important than soldiers but dogs can't speak for themselves either and just because it's a dog doesn't mean it makes it less offensive.

BoBo143

Thats a bit harsh Steve...this is a doggie forum.

I'm not talking about this or any other dog forum but what was said on TV, Radio, Newspapers and even speeches given in congress given by our elected officials. 

timsdat

BoBo143

Thats a bit harsh Steve...this is a doggie forum.

I'm not talking about this or any other dog forum but what was said on TV, Radio, Newspapers and even speeches given in congress given by our elected officials. 

Even though we go a little OT sometimes, "General Chat" is still for discussing things regarding dogs that may not be covered in the other sections like Behavior, Advocacy etc.  That's why we have NDR (Non Dog Related) - to rant about our elected officials, among other things.

Joyce

Eh I was never one for "an eye for an eye"....that just lowers us as humans, in  my opinion. We have brains and conscience to do things the right way.

If a person is brought up believing that animals mean nothing, and grow up with dogfighting, cockfighting, etc being common....do we punish  them as harshly as someone who is fully awar that this is morally and legally wrong and does it anyway?

Now, I'm not saying oh, let them go free because their momma didn't love them...I am saying that when people have morally incorrect social rules that were impressed in their mind from a young age, they should not be punished as harshly as someone who has had all the opportunity and education in the world and still chooses the wrong path. I think any sort of punishment needs to take the individual into account. Of course, something must  be done about them, because they need to realize that legally, you DO NOT DO THIS in our society.....but think about it.

I am as much against dogfighting as anyone on this forum. But I am also logical. All  this blanket talk about stringing people up is rubbish......

whtsthfrequency

If a person is brought up believing that animals mean nothing, and grow up with dogfighting, cockfighting, etc being common....do we punish  them as harshly as someone who is fully awar that this is morally and legally wrong and does it anyway?

Now, I'm not saying oh, let them go free because their momma didn't love them...I am saying that when people have morally incorrect social rules that were impressed in their mind from a young age, they should not be punished as harshly as someone who has had all the opportunity and education in the world and still chooses the wrong path. I think any sort of punishment needs to take the individual into account. Of course, something must  be done about them, because they need to realize that legally, you DO NOT DO THIS in our society.....but think about it.

What I am thinking about is the acts. Explaining why some acts are not seen by some people as objectionable because of their upbringing is one thing, excusing those same acts - even partly - because of it is another. I can understand that a dogfight spectator (not betting), a betting one, a dogfight trainer/breeder will be sanctionned differently because their involvement is different (even though they combine to make the whole "business" stay alive) but I cannot agree to different sanctions for the same acts just because "they did not know better". 

For spectators, I would probably do with hefty fines and short prison terms, (Louisiana law says $500 and/or six months). I would make the fines become heftier and the prison termslonger in case of repeated offenses.

For the ones who train, breed, promote, receive money, let their property be used, etc., I find Louisiana law top lenient (fines are $1,000 to $25,000 and  prison term is 1 to 10 years). I'd at least quadruple the fine and double the prison term.

Some people become who they are Because of their parents and some people are who they are inspite of their parents....God gave people the intelegence to know right from wrong and you can not tell me that just because daddy said it's ok makes it ok.  People know right from wrong no matter where they are raised or by whom.  If I saw my parents doing something as a child thatwas wrong, even if I didn't know it was wrong as a child I AM A GROWN UP and society and the LAW tell me it is wrong!!!!  Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law....saying I didn't know any better does NOT make it okay

whtsthfrequency

Eh I was never one for "an eye for an eye"....that just lowers us as humans, in  my opinion. We have brains and conscience to do things the right way.

 

 

I am as much against dogfighting as anyone on this forum. But I am also logical. All  this blanket talk about stringing people up is rubbish......

Wow...ok... 

BoBo , first of all you are overblowing my statements into something I did not say. I said yes, they are just as guilty of the crime as someone else, but the punishment should be different.

God gave people the intelegence to know right from wrong and you can not tell me that just because daddy said it's ok makes it ok. People know right from wrong no matter where they are raised or by whom.

 That an utter load. You are obviously lucky enough to have been raised where right and wrong was taught to you correctly.

I was brought up in a very racist household, and taught that it was normal and fine to hate Jewish people, black people, etc. I was alwasy taught that, and I grew up believing it.  I was basicallt told society is wrong and the law is wrong. Do you think, as a child, pre-teen, and teenagers, having been fed this crap my whole life, I could have some sort of magical epiphany that it was *not* okay? I did not stop thinking this was UNTIL I finally got punished for things that I did. It was not until AFTERWARDS, when I was educated, that I changed my beliefs.

Am I just as much to blame because of how I think as a person who grew up being taught everyone was gooood and fffffiiine  and then CHOSE to be racist? A person who fully realizes that even though this is wrong, this is NOT the norm, they decide to be hateful anyways? Because they think it is fun? Because they are evil?

Anyways....that is what I was trying to say before it was twisted into me supposedly "letting people off".....

Stringing up a dog because it lost a fight isn't logical,either.You've got to get in the real world---this is what goes on every day,all over the place.

 Umm...and now I am being accused of having me head in the clouds? I never said I did not think this went on every day. I AM in the real world, thanks very much..,....

And don/t tell me that if you saw your father string up a dog from a tree, you would see nothing wrong with that. You would definetly know that was wrong,you would not do it yourself because you saw your father do it.

 Right now? Of course I would, because I have been educated in the ways of society. Read my above post. If you had grown up in the sticks with dogfighting happening all the time, and were taught that "these are just dogs...." with this from Day 1, it would be different, you bet.  

 I am going to repeat - AGAIN- because no one seems to listen to ANYTHING I post on this forum and takes is COMPLTETELY  out of context because I don't nod my head and say yes sir, yes sir to everyone.....

I AM NOT SAYING WE SHOULD LET ANYONE OFF BECAUSE OF IF THEY WERE GROWN UP BEING TAUGHT THAT SUCH THINGS WERE ALL RIGHT. I AM SAYING THAT SUCH THINGS SHOULD BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION DURING SENTENCING. of course they are still just as "guilty"......

Hey, I'm sorry, but someone could grow up with a father that's a rapist.Now,the child is grown up and he ends up raping you, because he saw that what was his father did. Do you feel he should be given the benefit of the doubt,becausethat's how he grew up. Should he be given a lesser sentence because people feel sorry for him?  I don't think you would want him to get off easier now, would you?

Hey, I'm sorry, but someone could grow up with a father that's a rapist.Now,the child is grown up and he ends up raping you, because he saw that what was his father did. Do you feel he should be given the benefit of the doubt,becausethat's how he grew up.

 The benefit of doubt in terms of the guilt? No, he committed a crime, and he is guilty.

Should he be given a lesser sentence because people feel sorry for him? 

 Not because people feel sorry for him. Because he is not in the same meneal capacity as someone who knew full well it was wrong and did it anyway. However, a psychological evaluation would be needed. And not necessarily a lesser punishment, but a different punishment - see below -

 I don't think you would want him to get off easier now, would you?

I refuse to turn my anger into vengeance, because I belive that leads to people behaving sub-humanly. Simply punishing people like the situation mentioned above is not going to solve anything. You need to educate and force them to learn WHY it is wrong, or else they will just do it again. That is the only reason I learned. Just locking them up solves nothing and they keep thinking they are right and society is wrong. On the other hand, if this is a person who has had every opportunity in the world and knows full well what they are doing, knows it is wrong, and does it anyway, no amount of "reform" is going to help them. Lord knows what can.

I am not talking abou t letting people off "easier" necessarily - I am talking about using different punishments for different crime modalities. Eg community service versus jail time vesus labor. He should be given the punishment that is just, a punishment that is equal to the magnitude of the crime AND his intentions/ability/capacities when committing it.

Ok, I will boil it down to one statement

There is a difference between evil born of evil, and evil born of ignorance. Once can be changed, the other cannot. And we should find punishments that will fit one or the other, respectively.

Since for me evil does not exist, I can just repeat, let the punishment fit the act in a given society (at large) in a given place at a given time for whomever commits that act.

I really do not care if anyone repeats an act because it was presented as OK or because after having thought and considered it was not OK, the person anyway decides to go forward and do it. In my mind, that is not relevant. This being restricted to humans, not animals. Because we are supposed to be somehow, somewhat more able to live above the instinctual and/or ingrained community behavior. We are supposed to be able to think both further and farther.

I don't believe I did over blow anything you said....you can not tell me that society and the law has no influence on people, no matter how you are raised!! If these people all believe (because they are raised this way) that all of these bad behaviors are okay then why do they do it in hiding?  I was raised in a family that believed that drug use is Okay, it was a normal thing when I was a child around my family....I am an ADULT now, I have my own thoughts and feelings and I darn sure know that drugs are NOT okay because of society and my ability to know right from wrong and that it is against the law....  again I will say that ignorance of  the law is no excuse for breaking it.  I'm very sorry that you grew up  the way you did..I really truely am.  It could not have been easy for you to 'mainstream' and you are right, people should be punished acordingly. I think that everyone can agree that dog fighting is cruel, what kind of punishment they get.....well I guess we will all have to agree to disagree.

whtsthfrequency

 Simply punishing people like the situation mentioned above is not going to solve anything. You need to educate and force them to learn WHY it is wrong, or else they will just do it again.

I disagree with this point. I think these people are a danger to society and therefor need to be removed from the general population. I think most of these dog fighting swine are never going to see why their behavior is wrong.

So we need to break the cycle (passing this sick tradition from generation to generation), by removing the people who are passing this onto those around them.

Being part of a free society is a privilege, if someone can't follow the rules, they don't deserve to be free.