Why I HATE animal rights idiots....

I have to disagree with the statement you made that these dogs are given a second chance....many people would put a dog down for less than the animal ending up being test/lab animals.

Now, I am not saying you are studying in a bad facility.....I am sure you do the best you can for the animals.

ottoluv

Snownose your links are incorrect. I don't know where they got that information from. I am 100% positive several of those listed infact do test on animals since I did research at animal labs at schools listed as not having them. Honestly, I can't think of any that don't have animal labs. I mean hello UCLA is listed and I proctered a pig surgery lab two months ago for medical students. Loma linda did the baby fae baboon heart transplant hello and I hate to break it to you but we used beagles in cardiac physiology lab. Um, harvard has multiple animal labs. I could go on and on. If you look carefully it says that those are schools that don't use live animals to train not in research and that isn't even correct as I listed above.

I think there is a difference between vet medicine and human medicine.  In Snownose's article, I believe it states 85% of vet schools eliminated the practice of performing medical procedures on live shelter dogs in teaching vet students the procedures.  In the reference link I provided, I believe it states one third of teaching hospitals has stopped using dogs to teach medical students procedures that will be performed on humans.

I think we all realize that animals have been used in the past, and still are to this day.....but, there are improvements and new findings.....if alternatives work just as well, why not utilize them and not test on animals ......isn't that our responsibility?

ottoluv

Loma linda doesn't have a vet school, I think I understood her link just fine thanks dave. It's funny, I've NEVER had a patient refused any treatment/medication that was developed via animal testing. Makes you wonder huh, do PETA members not get sick? or do they just not care so much when they are staring death in the face?

I must be misunderstanding the dialogue here then because I thought the topic was acquisition policy and using live shelter dogs to teach student procedures and develop their dexterity skills before working on a real live case. 

Ottoluv, yes I believe animal testing on dogs and other live vertebrae animals has not changed, especially in drug development.  I believe I read there is a movement on curtailing actual surgeries on dogs for teaching medical students. 

Here is the University of Illinois policy on use of live animals...its a lot but I did not see the exclusion of shelters dogs in the acquisition section but may be excluded in USDA reg or is part of the Alternative use Fed requirement.     http://www.iacuc.uiuc.edu/

Thanks for posting that link......

I have been doing some reading....any of you feel comfortable with the housing and exercise requirements in this lab?

http://www.iacuc.uiuc.edu/policies/exercise_of_dogs.html

snownose

Thanks for posting that link......

I have been doing some reading....any of you feel comfortable with the housing and exercise requirements in this lab?

http://www.iacuc.uiuc.edu/policies/exercise_of_dogs.html

I have to laugh at this quote "Note: Forced exercise such as swimming or treadmills does not meet the exercise requirements."

Anyway, I am wondering if the Association for the Accessment and Accredition of Laboratory Care International  http://www.aaalac.org/index.cfm is the driving force for the OP's school...or most likely it is risk of losing funding.  UIUC is accredited.

snownose

I think we all realize that animals have been used in the past, and still are to this day.....but, there are improvements and new findings.....if alternatives work just as well, why not utilize them and not test on animals ......isn't that our responsibility?

Well, then I am really confused, how can some medical schools move away from animal testing, if it's basically impossible......

ottoluv

Loma linda doesn't have a vet school...

Correct but they have a animal lab facility for research.  "The University provides an exemplary animal care facility for research projects involving laboratory animals, where dental faculty and advanced education students are major participants."

I have to disagree with the statement you made that these dogs are given a second chance....many people would put a dog down for less than the animal ending up being test/lab animals. Now, I am not saying you are studying in a bad facility.....I am sure you do the best you can for the animals.

And again, I repeat. Our dogs are not used in any sort of crazy painful "experimenting".  Oh yeah, you sound really sure we are.....you havent even BEEN to our school, you have npo idea how our animal are treated and what they are used for, so stop getting up on the peta bandwagon and telling me that I'm wrong.

  Well, then I am really confused, how can some medical schools move away from animal testing, if it's basically impossible......

They are moving away because of pressure, both due and undue. And we ARE NOT EVEN TALKING about medical schools. Medical school animal use is completey different, and honestly, I don't think they should be using animals at all because they are studying HUMANS - what is the point of using animals? We are talking about VET schools, where people WILL be working with animals.

 I really don't like the direction this thread is taking....we're getting into the ethics animal research and if they are exercised enough and if the housing is correct... and all of this other ridiculousness that was not the intent of my origonal post. Is there a way to get a threa deleted? Because I honestly don't want to start any more pointless bickering and insinuatiosn that all the animals at my school are being tortured.

whtsthfrequency

And again, I repeat. Our dogs are not used in any sort of crazy painful "experimenting".

I understand that......can you deny that there are painful experiments conducted on animals in testing and research labs?

No, of course I can't.

 But what on earth does that have to do with my particular school's inability to acquire educational and teaching dogs from shelters? You are trying to pick a fight over animal research, and I want no part in it.

 DPU:  I thought the topic was acquisition policy and using live shelter dogs to teach student procedures and develop their dexterity skills before working on a real live case. 

Thank god, at least SOMEONE rememebers what this threa is about.......

No, I am not trying to pick a fight, I love animals and I rescue, so,there is where my conviction lays....but, you are right, this thread is moving in the wrong direction.

whtsthfrequency

 I really don't like the direction this thread is taking....we're getting into the ethics animal research and if they are exercised enough and if the housing is correct... and all of this other ridiculousness that was not the intent of my origonal post. Is there a way to get a threa deleted? Because I honestly don't want to start any more pointless bickering and insinuatiosn that all the animals at my school are being tortured.

I agree with your assessment of the thread in going off in a tangent.  And I thank you for your patience and your civility in responding.  I am still a little unclear about the authority that governs your program and animal care policy.  I think that was the reason to explore research and medical hospital's use.

I guess for me, the measure would be if I would perform these procedures on my residence dog with a clear conscience.  If that is the case with you and there is no state law governing this, or federal (DOA or USDA) requirements, or no risk of loss funding-direct or indirect, or local objection and it is purely voluntary on the school's part....then I would advocate and peition the school to change its policy.  I would also try to secure a no-kill shelter commitment to take these dogs after the 3 year period.  I don't know your volume but the number you stated earlier seems to be low volume.  Correct me if I am wrong.