Why I HATE animal rights idiots....

Here is our college's statement on the use of live animal in the lab:

Use Of Live Animals In Teaching

The veterinary profession has a stewardship role for the health and welfare of a major segment of the animal kingdom. We must take a leading role in establishing standards and then educating our society regarding matters of animal well-being. The College of Veterinary Medicine has established principles and standards for the use of animals in its curriculum which are required of all students. A summary of the main points follows:

1. All animals used in any of the teaching programs of the College will be treated humanely. The College will not tolerate animal abuse or inhumane treatment of any kind.
    
2. All courses (laboratories) requiring the use of animals will be reviewed and approved by the Curriculum Board of the College and the University Animal Care Committee.
    
3. All courses (laboratories) requesting animal use will be evaluated by considering whether:
    
   1. the objective of the laboratory is primarily centered on learning a concept, or
   2. is primarily centered on gaining experience and proficiency in psychomotor skills and/or manual dexterity with certain techniques.

If (a) is the primary focus of the exercise, the College recommends that alternatives to the use of animals be sought and implemented wherever possible to teach the principles involved.

 If (b) is the major emphasis, the College endorses the use of animals to educate our students in these areas. 4. In those courses approved for animal use to teach medical and surgical principles and techniques, due care and consideration will be given to the number of animals required for the exercises, the invasiveness of the technique, the minimization of pain, and the frequency and intensity of use of the animal.

The number and extent of these laboratories will be minimized to a level acceptable to the faculty of the College in keeping with our expectations for our graduates. Survival surgery laboratories will be limited to a select group of elective procedures routinely performed by entry-level general practice veterinarians.

 I am still a little unclear about the authority that governs your program and animal care policy. I think that was the reason to explore research and medical hospital's use.

We are driving for AAALAC accrediation at this time. We have all of the requirements fullfilled, it is just a matter of scheduling them to come in and inspect and the red tape that involves. I work weekends as an animal care technician at our main research facility in which we have dogs, poultry, rats, mice, horses, cows, sheep, and goats, so I have a first-hand view of how the animals are kept. The only "research" that our dogs are used for are thyroid and allergen, and the results of the research are used directly towards treatments for DOGS, not people. We do not do invasive/terminal surg. And honestly, one of the biggest "requirements" for me in terms of these animals are - do they seem happy, or at least adjusted? Do the dogs hide in the runs and have stereotypies? No, they come up to greet you, play, wag their tails. Do the mice fight and barber each other? No. DO the rabbits chew excessivley or self-mutilate? No. Are the chickens depressed, fighting, or have their feathers all fluffed out? No. etc etc. As a tech, in addition to all the "legal" requirements, I also look for that.

 If that is the case with you and there is no state law governing this, or federal (DOA or USDA) requirements, or no risk of loss funding-direct or indirect, or local objection and it is purely voluntary on the school's part....then I would advocate and peition the school to change its policy.

Do you mean the policy on using teaching animals in itself or the policy of using laboratory-bred dogs? Because I do not have a problem with my school's parrticular use of our dogs. I cannot say the same for others. There is indeed "research" going on in other medical schools and veterinary school that I do NOT agree with. 

 I would also try to secure a no-kill shelter commitment to take these dogs after the 3 year period.

 The idea has been passed around, but with the absolutely ungodly number of stray animals here, I don't know where the money or the time would come from. Blacksburg is notorious for our animal problem (ironic considering we have a vet school here, no? ) :( 

Our shelters are all chock full, all the no-kills and humane societies within a 40 mile radius all have 6 month waiting lists ( I kid you not, 6 months), all foster programs are far, far overstrained....a very good idea though. I will indeed see what our staff Lab Animal Veterinarian thinks, as I have had the same idea myself, no matter what source the dogs are from.

 I don't know your volume but the number you stated earlier seems to be low volume. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, we generally have between 40 and 50 dogs at any given time, and therefore a third of them come up for adoption a year.

I just read your post about PETA and the dog issue. I don't live in your country and I'm don't actually know how it is done here in Sweden, but I sympathize with you completely! I believe your intentions are all sincere concerning the dogs and that the shelter dogs you formerly had the opportunity to save will instead be put down, while you now instead are forced by law to buy your animals from special breeders. It just doesn't make any sense to me!! You must also have problems with overpopulation by dogs, why else the need for shelters? The way you will have to go about it now just contributes to overpopulation. Sounds stupid to me! I feel your frustration and share it!

whtsthfrequency

honestly, I don't think they should be using animals at all because they are studying HUMANS - what is the point of using animals? We are talking about VET schools, where people WILL be working with animals.

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Moderator speaking...

This thread will remain ON TOPIC or it will be closed. Start a new thread to bicker about the general topic of animal research if you wish to discuss it.

What is seems like they should have done is fought to make it illegal to breed animals specifically for animal research. Then maybe ALL of the shelter dogs sheduled for euth would get another year or so to live and another chance to be adopted.

whtsthfrequency

 I would also try to secure a no-kill shelter commitment to take these dogs after the 3 year period.

 The idea has been passed around, but with the absolutely ungodly number of stray animals here, I don't know where the money or the time would come from. Blacksburg is notorious for our animal problem (ironic considering we have a vet school here, no? ) :( 

Our shelters are all chock full, all the no-kills and humane societies within a 40 mile radius all have 6 month waiting lists ( I kid you not, 6 months), all foster programs are far, far overstrained....a very good idea though. I will indeed see what our staff Lab Animal Veterinarian thinks, as I have had the same idea myself, no matter what source the dogs are from.

 I don't know your volume but the number you stated earlier seems to be low volume. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, we generally have between 40 and 50 dogs at any given time, and therefore a third of them come up for adoption a year.

RE: adoptions out after....

Have you ever seen those "prison dog" shows on tv where prisoners train shelter dogs and then they are put up for adoption? I think adopters like the idea of getting a dog that has a known temperment and has been trained to sit, heel, stay, etc, plus they know the dogs were saved from possible euthanasia.

I am NOT suggested that you ship the dogs to a prison LOL but I was wondering if there were any schools in your vicinity that would be interested in having a "dog training" course. Interested folks could use the dogs in your program for the classes.  The people would learn how to train dogs, the dogs would be trained and more adoptable, and the dogs would have more social interaction/outside time. The general public would also be better informed about what you're doing with/to the dogs. Just a thought to help with the adoptions after.

Back to topic!

If the choice is between buying dogs from a lab and getting them from a shelter so you can practice things like drawing blood, then there is no question in my mind that the shelter is the way to go. It IS a second chance for dogs being scheduled for euthanasia....going the lab supplier route is only making more dogs and there is no good in that.

Personally if I were the shelter dog I would choose being used to practice inserting a catheter over death---wouldn't everyone?

FYI I have had inexperienced lab workers try to draw blood from me when they clearly had NOT practiced enough. My arm was black and blue. I have also been in teaching hospitals where I was used to help teach someone how to draw blood and insert one of those iv line holder/shot things properly. It was infinitely more comfortable to have the lines inserted in the teaching hospital (while someone explained to the student how to do it) than in the regular hospital where the tech. was supposed to know but was not very experienced.

Isn't PETA the one who enters shelters under false pretenses, euthanizes the animals they take from the shelter to be "adopted out," and then dumps their bodies in nearby dumpsters?  I may be wrong, but I do remember reading something to that effect about PETA a while back.  I can't stand anyone who tries to pass, or even succeeds passing, these "feel good" laws! 

OK, that aside, if these animal rights groups could pass such a law, couldn't you and fellow students start a petition to dissolve/repeal this law?  You are the ones interacting with these animals, and you have hands on experience.  Couldn't you start documenting the care that they receive with a log and photos, draw up a petition, and take that to a court of law asking to dissolve this "no shelter" law?

I couldn't have said it better.  It is so sad.

When my sister still worked as a tech, she got to pick which strays went to the broker that brought them to the vet school. She had no issues with doing that because she also attended that Vet school and knew first-hand how the animals were treated. She also knew the broker and trusted her completely with the dogs. One day, the broker stopped by in her truck and my sister spotted a lovely Dane mix. Being partial to Danes, she asked if she could try to place him. The broker gladly gave her the dog and thanks to a "heartless" money-hungry broker Louie now lives happily with one of my co-workers and her Dane.

I am sick of this knee-jerk reaction to "animal testing." Do some research and find out for yourself before falling for the PETA propaganda.