Phillipines eating dogs

to say, well you cant be shocked and appalled by what is happening over THERE because its just as bad HERE is just not logical to me.

That wasn't what I was saying at all. My point was that I see the attitude coming from ALOT of people (not everyone) that this is some horrible barbaric practice that WE (the US) would never engage in. I was simply illustrating the fact that we are, in many regards, no better than them. Be shocked and outraged all you want- I certainly am- but I feel that you should be just as shocked and outraged over the treatment of animals here. It seems like every time an article surfaces about the dog meat trade, people are horrified- but I don't see the same reaction to the abuse of livestock in american slaughterhouses.

Yes, there has been many laws passed (humane slaughter act, etc) to protect farm animals. In many cases, they are not enforced. Even if they are- the very act of raising livestock in industrial farming conditions is cruel in and of itself.

I, too grew up around livestock. I have seen many animals sent to slaughter. Yes. some operations are more humane than others. Small farms and family farms are not what I'm talking about here- I'm discussing large scale industrial farming by major corporations, which is where the MAJORITY of meat in America comes from. The conditions on these farms are very, very, very different from family owned farms and farms owned by small companies.

I am not squeamish about farming. I raise my own meat and grew up watching other people slaughter their own livestock. Small scale slaughterhouses are generally not too bad. The larger ones- the ones that prcoess several thousand animals a day- are the ones that are most problematic.

No, I'm not excusing anything in the video or saying that we shouldn't be outraged by it. Only that it seems hypocritical to me to be outraged by this, as if eating dogs were somehow more morally wrong than eating a cow, or that the way we produce our meat is much better.

Chuffy

to say, well you cant be shocked and appalled by what is happening over THERE because its just as bad HERE is just not logical to me.

I don't think anyone is saying that either. At least I'm not. The story linked in the original post suggests, and the video states explicitly, that "the US has the power to convince the Philippines to protect man's best friend," implying that it's the obligation of the US to pressure enforcement of their laws. And we don't even enforce our own. Nor do we have purely humane techniques for raising, feeding, capturing and killing the meat we eat. Those are the points I'm making.
 

Check out the "Humane Farming Association", a woman named Gail Eisnitz wrote a book on today's meat industry.....she was a head investigator working under cover.......very interesting.....

Ratsicles

No, I'm not excusing anything in the video or saying that we shouldn't be outraged by it. Only that it seems hypocritical to me to be outraged by this, as if eating dogs were somehow more morally wrong than eating a cow, or that the way we produce our meat is much better.

 To me in a sense it is more morally wrong to eat a dog thant to eat a cow. Dogs are more social allowing us to have relationships with them, we can utilize their willingness to please and work with humans in many ways, unlike cows. I grew up with cows, they simply do not have the social abilities to mesh with humans in the same manner as dogs. Thus to me, I can be morally outraged to see someone slaughter and eat a dog where watching the same happen to a cow would only cause mild sadness. I would only be morally outraged at the cow being slaughtered if I observed cruety or torture while the cow was being slaughtered.

 Call me a hypocrite if you like but that is the truth of the matter. I am unable to form the same bonds with cows that I have been able to form with dogs.

 And I must confess I enjoy steak and burgers

Call me a hypocrite if you like but that is the truth of the matter. I am unable to form the same bonds with cows that I have been able to form with dogs.

That has been your experience with cows, not everyone's. Cows are herd animals and are, by design, just as social as dogs. I have met some wonderful pet cows in my lifetime, ones that were *just* as responsive as dogs. My neighbors' two cows were bottle raised from birth. They respond individually to their names, come when called, and respond to basic commands. When you're out hanging out with them, they'll follow you around even if they know you don't have food. They beg for head scratches and ear rubs and will actually lick your face like a dog. I honestly fail to see how the bond you can form with a cow is any different than the bond you can form with a dog.

An animal is an animal is an animal, and I think that holding one species higher than another because of what they can do for us is morally wrong. I do not value my dogs any more, or any less, than a cow. I do not value them any more, or any less than the chickens I raise myself for meat. Not because my dogs are not "worth" as much as a chicken, but because my chickens are not "worth" any less than a dog. They are both thinking, feeling beings with thoughts and purposes outside of how they can benefit humans. We are NOT the be all and end all and I think people need to come to terms with the fact that animals have worth outside of what they can do for us.

If you think it's morally wrong to eat a dog, but not a cow, that's your opinion- and yes, you're entitled to it. What about cultures that hold cows to be sacred, but not dogs? For them, it would be MUCH more morally reprehensible to eat a cow than a dog. Who is right? How do you know?

I honestly fail to see how eating one is more wrong than eating another, morally. An animal's value should not be determined by its worth as a human companion. They all think, feel, and suffer equally. I don't feel that the species involved should make a difference.

Hello there, Filipino here living in the Philippines.

It's actually not the norm to eat dog meat here. Mostly it happens in certain areas in the country, particularly in some of the rural provinces, but not a lot of people do it anymore. I personally know only less than five people who have eaten dog meat, and they still like dogs as pets, funny as that seems. I'm not sure about that whole torturing the animal so the meat will taste better, though. I have to say I haven't heard of it with regard to dog meat -- only with some tribes, and that practice involves chickens.  

 This is what I truly do not understand about those who advocate ceasing the consumption of all meat animals. What would really become of the cows, pigs and chickens of the world if this wish came true tomorrow?

 Sorry but to me it is like comparing apples to oranges…

 Also to be fair I did look up incidents of cows saving people and came across one account. IMO it does not really count since the woman in question simply threw her arms around the swimming cow and allowed the cow to drag her to safety. The cow was not trying to save her but was swimming for its on life.

 Here is the link about the heroic cow:  (this site might be useful if one desires to rescue cows) http://careforcows.org/drupal/articles/swimming_cow_saves_farm

dgriego

I understand about cultural differences but the method and means that they are using to transport these dogs and slaughter them is appalling. I would not want to see a herd of pigs treated with such absolute disregard.

 

 

That was exactly my point but everyone seems to be focused on the "eating dogs is just like eating chickens, and burgers " arguments.  By the way, that is exactly the same arguments that the Michael Vick supporters had  on their picket signs , along with  " It's just a Dog"....at the Falcons practice field a couple of weeks ago.  I guess I figured I would get a different response on a "Dog Forum", but guess not. 

dgriego, I've been around farm animals enough that I know the sociability differences between pigs and cows and dogs. That wasn't my point at all. My point was that it doesn't matter. My point was that animals have value as animals, completely outside of the value WE assign to them. It doesn't matter if we think one animal is good for meat, one animal is good for milk, one animal is good as a service animal, one is good for a companion, they all have values and purposes totally outside of human influence and need. If you define the lives of animals strictly in terms of their uses to humans, than we really are just talking two seperate languages and won't see eye to eye here.

The fact that cows make lousy service animals is a moot point. Saying that because an animal can provide no other practical service to a human, and is therefore only good for meat, is IMO speciest and ridiculous. But that's just my world view- I think any kinf of humanocentricity is distasteful and don't hold the human species as any higher than any other animal either. We're all equal and the same, in my eyes.

I also never said anything about vegetarianism. Humans evolved as omnivores, so I eat meat. But I don't kid myself ebout it- I know that when I chow down on a hamburger it was once a thinking, feeling, living thing that suffered when it was killed and was no different from my neighbor's sweet, face licking cows. I don't justify it to myself by saying "Well, cows don't do anything ELSE useful for humans, so we have a right to eat them." That, to me is disgusting and delusional- to suggest that the only value of a non-human is decided by how we can best exploit them. It doesn't matter if they're horrible companions or anything else- non-human animals exist for their OWN purposes, which have nothing to dfo with humans. If we happen to eat them, or make pets out of them, then so be it- but it doesn't mean that that is the "purpose" of a species.

 Assign labels to animals based on their value to humans if you want- but not everyone does that and not everyone should. If you don't like eating dogs, don't eat dogs. I don't like eating dogs, so I don't eat dogs. If someone else likes eating dog, I don't have a problem with it as long as they kill it humanely. Why? because again, a cow that suffers and dies to be someone's dinner suffers NO less than a dog. It's not apples to oranges- it's living thing to living thing that both have similar nervous systems and both feel fear and pain.

When I was a child living in a fairly rural area, one of my grandfathers had a small farm...maybe 400 acres or so.  He raised a small herd of cattle-30-50 head as well as rabbits and other livestock.  The rabbits were food, he sold the fur and also sold rabbits feet to a commercial dealer.  My sister and I took turns feeding the cattle-including the calves.  We loved those cows, as they were friendly to people and came right up to say hello and grab a mouthful of corn from us.  We named some of the calves.  And when it was time they were butchered and we ate them.  Is that such a bad thing?  Heck my sister even had one calf follow her around whereever she went on the farm.  

 Any of you other than Ratsicles and maybe a couple of other experience that?  It's hard to do.  But it's the way things are done in some cultures and that even includes cultures in the US.
 

Well said, Brittany.  

It should also be noted that a lot of people grew up on small family farms and maybe did not personally witness the way that most of our food animals are raised and think perhaps that because what they saw was mostly humane, it always is. But no one grows up on a factory farm. They are corporations who's product is meat. And that is where most of our meat comes from, not small family farms. We're talking feedlots that go on literally as far as the eye can see (because for some reason americans don't like the taste of grass fed beef though I personally think it tastes about a million percent better, as does milk from grass fed cows) and commercial hog operations with thousands and thousands of head.  Visit Delaware sometime and see what a commercial chicken operation looks like. We're not talking about Farmer Bob down the road.

Ratsicles

to say, well you cant be shocked and appalled by what is happening over THERE because its just as bad HERE is just not logical to me.

That wasn't what I was saying at all. My point was that I see the attitude coming from ALOT of people (not everyone) that this is some horrible barbaric practice that WE (the US) would never engage in.

My apologies.  I didn't interpret any of the posts on this thread that way. 

I kind of see the point of the thread being obscured by the discussion of what happens on factory farms... I see this thread being about Phillipines eating dog meat and the way they treat the dogs.  What happens in American factory farms may be as bad/worse/just the same, but it is not (to my understanding) the issue under discussion.  The fact that some of the dogs butchered are stolen family pets just makes the whole thing more horrific.  How many people do you know who have had a pet goat or  cow stolen and butchered like that?  I do see the two issues as different. 

Xerxes

Any of you other than Ratsicles and maybe a couple of other experience that?  It's hard to do.  But it's the way things are done in some cultures and that even includes cultures in the US.

I was raised on a farm, too. I had a pet pig. He was brilliant and just like a dog. When he matured, my father slaughtered him. We had different ideas as to what a "pet pig" meant. I held the leash while he shot it through the head. I was 10.

Chuffy

The fact that some of the dogs butchered are stolen family pets just makes the whole thing more horrific.  How many people do you know who have had a pet goat or  cow stolen and butchered like that?  I do see the two issues as different.

Absolutely! That is terrible and I can't imagine having my dog stolen under any circumstances, much less to be eaten. It's a horrid thought! You're right, it's 2 different issues. But the treatment of the dogs in the story and many of the animals that are slaughtered here isn't that different at all.

 Not at all sure why this became an American culture verses Phillipines culture thing. This was not an effort by Americans only, not the news media of Americans only and not directed to Americans only.... This was an effort of local police and animal welfare groups with the help of Humane Society International..... And just because there are hundreds of thousands of animals that suffer in the factory farms, in other countries of the world, doesn't make the suffering that is going on with these dogs any less important. There are also many fighting to end the horrible conditions in the factory farms of the world....these same groups are saying the same thing about the factory farming practices and working as best they can to put an end to cruel practices wherever they may find them.

 "Humane Society International, the international arm of The Humane Society of the United States, recently worked with local police and animal groups to rescue nearly 100 dogs bound for the dog meat trade."

Ratsicles

My point was that it doesn't matter. My point was that animals have value as animals, completely outside of the value WE assign to them. It doesn't matter if we think one animal is good for meat, one animal is good for milk, one animal is good as a service animal, one is good for a companion, they all have values and purposes totally outside of human influence and need. If you define the lives of animals strictly in terms of their uses to humans, than we really are just talking two seperate languages and won't see eye to eye here.

We are speaking two languages and it is obvious (and has been to me) that we do not see eye to eye. Do you assign the same value to human life as you do a cow?

Ratsicles

I think any kinf of humanocentricity is distasteful and don't hold the human species as any higher than any other animal either. We're all equal and the same, in my eyes.

 I see that you do hold human life as equal to a cow. Yep we are for sure speaking two different languages and we for sure do not see eye to eye. I hold human life in much higher regard than an animal, even my dogs whom are very important to me.

Ratsicles

That, to me is disgusting and delusional- to suggest that the only value of a non-human is decided by how we can best exploit them.

 You know it is interesting that you say that. The natural world has always had the hunter and the hunted, one could say that the rabbit exists to make more rabbits and to provide food for the coyote who controls the population of the rabbit and enjoys eating him. Does the coyote exploit the rabbit? Do rabbits sometimes die painful tortured deaths at the hands of coyotes? There is nothing wrong with eating animals and your suggestion that we "exploit" them is ridiculous, they are food and we eat them.That is their purpose Your views expressed in this post make me wonder why you do eat meat. I think if I felt that strongly that an animal was no better than I and had the same rights that I had I really don't think I could eat one.

 We could argue for days about this, it is pointless as we are clearly from two seperate places, perhaps even worlds, so I will hold in common with you that we both like dogs (since we are both on this forum) and that is pretty much about it.

.

Ratsicles

If you don't like eating dogs, don't eat dogs. I don't like eating dogs, so I don't eat dogs. If someone else likes eating dog, I don't have a problem with it as long as they kill it humanely.

 I do not disagree with this statement. I do not eat dogs. If someone in some other country wants to eat dogs then they should be bred for that purpose, slaughtered humanly and not stolen from someone and stacked in cages with their mouths taped shut. But I still hold that the dog is different from the cow and to me that justifies why I can eat the cow and explains why I will not eat the dog.