Pit Bulls break in home

"That is NOT a pitbull.  What the hell?"  This was before I knew about American Bullies as they are sometimes called.

But wait,,,,, I had a bully type years ago.... as in 30 years ago....I had never heard of the term Pit Bull!    But as I stated a few posts ago, back then there was a TV program, a documentary... probably "60 Minutes" or a show like that.  It was all about Pit Bulls...and mostly to show us what to watch out for. While they showed us the strength of the PB and the power of their jaws....that was back before PBs or any bully types were attacking anything...people or other dogs.  The show was actually more about what to watch for about Fighting.      But as they showed us the PB and described it....they said the Pit Bull originated from 2 dogs...the English Bulldog which was the strongest dog in the world...and the English Terrier which is the fiercest dog in the world.   So how does THAT make it so much better to not want some of these dog mistaken for PBs?     I'm not against the PB and I AM helping fight the fight...to save them....but if these dogs were bred to be the strongest fiercest dogs in the world.....there is nothing that is good about that.
Secondly... I don't care if its a pure bred PB ...or something like it.  It doesnt' matter if the dogs are mistaken for a pure bred or not...the bully types are thrown into the same catagory...for the most part they have the same type personalities.  Some are bigger....and harder to handle no doubt, but I think we have to quit using excuses to the media that these are not pure bred pitties. IT just plain doesn't matter.

My rhodesian ridgeback is often mistaken for a pit bull. I know the RRs are being subjected to BSL in many areas. I've often wondered if it's because they have a "type" sort of similar to a pit bull.

My rhodesian ridgeback is often mistaken for a pit bull. I know the RRs are being subjected to BSL in many areas. I've often wondered if it's because they have a "type" sort of similar to a pit bull.

 
I bet it is!

a couple of 90 pound PB's

 
Thank you Bob for proving a point so many people have been making.  Most people can't properly identify a pit bull.
 
None of the 3 breeds refered to as pit bulls (Am Staff, Staffie, and APBT) get any where close to 90 lb.  The largest the APBT is the largest at a desired max weight of 60 lbs.  What you were seeing was something else.
 
By the way, how can you tell a dog is dog aggressive just by looking at them?
 
 
 

Most people can't properly identify a pit bull.

 
It doesn't matter.  What everyone thinks is a pb is what matters.

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: Raven778944

IMO,

If owning PBs' was illegal, only criminals would own them.

Bob, it sounds like you have had some bad experiences with PBs', I had a bad experience with a GSD, and I did not like them for a long time. Now I have a GSD mix- looks alot like your dog actually, sweetest dog ever.

There are a lot of irresponsible teenagers and gang bangers with PBs b/c they think it is "badass" to own a mean pittie. Humans created this image, and therefore created this problem through ignorance and improper handling. It used to be "badass" to own a rottie, and at one time, GSDs' were the fad. Pretty much all big dogs have gotten a bad rap at one time or the other.

There is so much media hype surrounding PBs, that every time one attacks, it makes national news. I'm sure there are plenty of other large breed dogs attacking kids, but they don't get as much media attention right now. Any large breed dog can be a dangerous weapon in the hands of the wrong person. Owners are not being held accountable for their actions, that is what needs to change.

Yes, those dogs should be euth, and the owners prosecuted, but the dogs weren't born evil killing machines.

It is stories like this that happen again and again that worry me about this breed.

[linkhttp://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-pitbull23aug23,1,5846869.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california]http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-pitbull23aug23,1,5846869.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california[/link]
[linkhttp://www.steubencourier.com/news/2007/0826/Front_Page/003.html]http://www.steubencourier.com/news/2007/0826/Front_Page/003.html[/link]
Now of course, the excuses will start rolling in:

1. It was the postmans fault, he must have done something wrong
2. Why did he walk near the fence...
3.. It was probably a toy poddle, not a Pit Bull
etc..etc.....

As to bad experiences, I run into PBs while walking my dog  on an  almost  daily basis since they are a popular breed in the area of Atlanta where I live. Most are poorly trained, and very often, I will cross the street or change my route when  I see one( or many times 2 together )  of these dogs dragging their owners around.  Very often the dog(s) wearing a prong collar, and then owner still has no control over the dog.  A teenager with 2 of these dogs is also pretty frightening since there is no way a 14 year old that weighs about 110 pounds is going to control a couple of 90 pound PB's, if they decide to roll into attack mode. By the way, many of these male dogs are unneuttered, which seems to be a status symbol for the owner. Many of these dogs look and act D/A. 

Bob, pretty much every critical thinker I know scrutinizes the stories that come out of the media.  I do this with pretty much everything, and did before I even considered owning a pit bull.  Not everything you read in newspapers is true/the whole story.

You say that you have these experiences Bob, and if what you say is true, then I am ever so confused as to why you have problems with people blaming the owners rather than the dogs in pit bull attacks.

Do you expect that dogs will train themselves?  They don't.  They can't, because they are dogs.  They know manners because humans (here we are back to that human vs. dog thing again) teach them.  If the dogs are dragging their owners down the street and pulling aginst their prongs collars (which is, in case there was any question, something that pretty much any large breed will learn to do if the prong is used poorly), that is an issue with the owners

Dogs also do not take themselves to the vet and have themselves fixed.  I know this for a fact.  I tried to talk Jack into taking himself in for the big snip, but nothin' doin'.  Again, this is an owner issue.

I would also be interested in knowing what behaviors you define as dog aggressive.  Barking and lunging?  My lab doesn't have a DA bone in his body (although he does have a high prey drive), and we have been teaching him not to lunge and other dogs or bark at them out of frustration.  I'm sure those other dog owners (at least by the way the pulled their dogs back) thought that Jack was DA too. 

ORIGINAL: dyan

"That is NOT a pitbull.  What the hell?"  This was before I knew about American Bullies as they are sometimes called.

But wait,,,,, I had a bully type years ago.... as in 30 years ago....I had never heard of the term Pit Bull!    But as I stated a few posts ago, back then there was a TV program, a documentary... probably "60 Minutes" or a show like that.  It was all about Pit Bulls...and mostly to show us what to watch out for. While they showed us the strength of the PB and the power of their jaws....that was back before PBs or any bully types were attacking anything...people or other dogs.  The show was actually more about what to watch for about Fighting.      But as they showed us the PB and described it....they said the Pit Bull originated from 2 dogs...the English Bulldog which was the strongest dog in the world...and the English Terrier which is the fiercest dog in the world.   So how does THAT make it so much better to not want some of these dog mistaken for PBs?     I'm not against the PB and I AM helping fight the fight...to save them....but if these dogs were bred to be the strongest fiercest dogs in the world.....there is nothing that is good about that.
Secondly... I don't care if its a pure bred PB ...or something like it.  It doesnt' matter if the dogs are mistaken for a pure bred or not...the bully types are thrown into the same catagory...for the most part they have the same type personalities.  Some are bigger....and harder to handle no doubt, but I think we have to quit using excuses to the media that these are not pure bred pitties. IT just plain doesn't matter.

American Bullies are a new phenomenon, and not the same as bully type dogs from America.  American Bully is a name given by some to a dog that is also called a pitbull by others.  There is a movement to make the American Bully a separate breed. 

American Bullies:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APN-gmT-0Ks&mode=related&search=

And I think breed identification does matter.  A 50 lb ABPT who wouldn't bite a person if his life depended on it nothing like a 90 lb bully mutt.  Bully breeds differ in the characteristics.  Pibbles are "fierce," all right, if by fierce you mean fiercely loving people. 

And I think breed identification does matter.  A 50 lb ABPT who wouldn't bite a person if his life depended on it nothing like a 90 lb bully mutt.  Bully breeds differ in the characteristics.  Pibbles are "fierce," all right, if by fierce you mean fiercely loving people. 

 
I see several bullie types each week at work.  Some are large,, some are not. Some owners don't really know what their dog is (my friend Donna has one of those) and some won't admit to what theirs is.  Therefore. it just does'nt matter which is which,,, the public looks at all of these dogs as a problem. If you own a nice bully or an aggresive bully, you are in danger of loosing him the way things are going with the public.   That is what needs to be addressed and worked on...not trying to tell which is which. Especially when so many of them are coming out of shelters where no one knows for sure their true breed.
And about the documentary that I wrote about that was on TV years ago... about how the PB came about what what it consisted of (the stongest and the fiercest dogs alive), how does that make the real pit bull a better breed than another bully breed?
And please keep in mind, I'm fighting WITH you guys,,,not against you. I am trying to help save your breed, if for no other reason, to help save mine. Its just that I see some of these arguments that PB people are coming up with as not helping them fight their fight!

Therefore. it just does'nt matter which is which,,, the public looks at all of these dogs as a problem. If you own a nice bully or an aggresive bully, you are in danger of loosing him the way things are going with the public.   That is what needs to be addressed and worked on...not trying to tell which is which. Especially when so many of them are coming out of shelters where no one knows for sure their true breed.
And about the documentary that I wrote about that was on TV years ago... about how the PB came about what what it consisted of (the stongest and the fiercest dogs alive), how does that make the real pit bull a better breed than another bully breed?

 
Dyan, it matters because the true American Pit Bull Terrier was specifically bred to be one of the most non-human aggressive dog breeds ever, period.
 
Yes, they were bred to be fierce fighters. They were bred to fight other animals though, not people. In pit fighting, the dogs owner/handler needed to be able to step in  and seperate fighting dogs if necessary. That means actually getting in the pit with dogs that are attempting to kill each other and using your hands to seperate them, without getting bitten. These dogs needed to be SO adverse to ever, ever biting a human that this type of seperation would be possible. Human aggressive fighters were culled instantly and mercilessly. The TRUE APBT should be mentally incapable of even dreaming of ever, ever injuring a human, intentionally and otherwise. They were bred specifically to be one of the LEAST human aggressive breeds out there.
 
Why does it matter if the dogs causing problems are mixes? Because Mastiffs, certain Bulldogs, and most of the other breeds these idiots cross Pits with CAN be human aggressive- many of these breeds are guarding breeds that can and will attack a human under the right circumstances. So when one of these American Bullies that is poorly bred and even more poorly raised attacks a person, why is it these dogs are called "pit bulls" and the APBT breed is blamed for the actions of a mixed breed dog? They're introducing human aggression into a breed that is NOT human aggressive and instead of calling it what it is- a mutt- they're spoiling the name of an EXCELLANT breed of dog.
 
It matters in the sense that it's just plain wrong. Why is it that if a pit bull mix attacks a person, it's simply called a "pit bull" and villified? That doesn't seem to happen with any other dog. You don't call a Lab/GSD mix a lab...and if a Lab/GSD mix attacked a person, they would call it a mix in the news. Why then, when a Pit/Mastiff cross attacks a person, is only the Pit Bull side of the dog's genetics blamed? How does that even make sense, and how can you say it's irrelevant to the issue?
 
It DOES need to be made clear to the people in charge and the public in general that the dogs that are attacking people are not APBT's- because an entire BREED is being blamed for something they are not responsible for. If officials can be made to understand that these are mixed breed dogs that we are having issues with- and not an entire breed- I think it WILL make a difference to the fate of pit bulls.
 
 
Saying that it "doesn't matter" that our breed is unfairly blamed for the actions of mixed breed dogs is ludicrous to me- if someone who didn't commit a crime was thrown in jail for one, would you still say that it "didn't matter" if the public thinks that person is guilty?
 
Education is needed here, and saying that because people aren't willing to be educated, we need to come up with different tactics, is ridiculous. What would you propose we do, exactly? If people are just plain not willing to learn, there's really no way to convince anyone of anything about our dogs, so it seems we're all pretty much screwed.

Education is needed here, and saying that because people aren't willing to be educated, we need to come up with different tactics, is ridiculous. What would you propose we do, exactly? If people are just plain not willing to learn, there's really no way to convince anyone of anything about our dogs, so it seems we're all pretty much screwed.

 
I'm sorry that I seemed to upset you so...that was not my intention.  I say again...I'm fighting the fight with you.
 
Stop and think,,part of what is talked about right here on this thread alone...is about aggresion towards dogs. People walking their dogs and afraid that they (their dogs) will be attacked by a PB.  Even though human aggresion in also talked about, most people here are worried about thier dogs.  You said their spoiling the name of an excellant breed...but seriously..what is excellant about a dog aggresive breed?   And I'm really not saying "don't try to tell people that the pit is not really a pit and others are not" so much as I'm saying its not doing any good. Its not helping you to fight your fight.  I bet most people that have a bully dog don't even know what their dog really is. So if you get one from a breeder...than you know....but what about all of those that don't?  Which is most people.  So if a bully type attacks a dog...maybe the story that was started here....is everyone going to stop and decide if it was in fact a pure bred Pit Bull..or a Bully type...or if it was a Pit Bull mixed with a whatever, and it was the whatever part of the dog that caused the problem.  No one is going to do that.. we can't expect them to in my opinion.

ORIGINAL: dyan
  You said their spoiling the name of an excellant breed...but seriously..what is excellant about a dog aggresive breed?  

Wow.  What is excellent about pits?  How you claim to be on "our side" when you can't see the good in pits?

What is excellent about guarding breeds who are suspicious of all strangers, and aggressive if pushed?
What is excellent about sight hounds and terriers who will kill small animals in a heartbeat?

Is a greyhound who would kill cats less excellent than a lap dog who cowers from them? 

If people were still breeding pits as they were developed, you wouldn't have to worry as much about a pit attacking your dog because you could safely grab the pit and restrain it without fear of being bitten. 

I think there is something amazing and excellent about a dog fighting for its life that can be handled by a human being who will not be bit. 

Wow.  What is excellent about pits?  How you claim to be on "our side" when you can't see the good in pits?

Oh wow!............. The quote was not "what is excellent about pits"...it was "what is excellent about a dog aggresive breed!"    I can and I do see the good in pits...I had one! Or a mix close to one. Her name was Sammy.  You are changing my words to sound like I am against you and/or your breed.   Don't you think you would like to have your pit bull, just the way it is and not have to worry about it with the dog next door,,,or the dog down the street?  Or are you happy that you have to make sure that you have total control of it at all times?

I think there is something amazing and excellent about a dog fighting for its life that can be handled by a human being who will not be bit. 

And do you say that this is by nature or it was taught to them to not bite the human while fighting for its life?  Because everything I have read says not to break up a dog fight...that even your own forgets who you are in the excitment of the fight. Any breed. Is the PB an exception to that?

So heres what.  I have a Great Dane. I had a Dane mix in the past and then came along my sons Dane Ollie who is just the sweetest loving, even tempered dog  in the world.  Then I got Bubblegum. She was three years old and came from her breeder...a show dog that eventually was used for breeding. She was not at all the dog I would have brought up from a pup...but I did not  know that when I first got her.    She came with problems...and you may not have been around I dog at the time when I got her and was here asking questions all of the time.  I almost gave her back a couple of times..but to be honest... I believe she never would have found another home...they would have put an end to her in their back yard.  Since I did'nt feel that she deserved that, I stuck it out. THANK GOD!  But I still worry to this day. She protects my house and sometimes me.  After spending a lot of time with Ollie,, playing and even spending over night sleeping with him,,,she tore after him when he yelped when someone stepped on his foot.    Another day, she got away from me and went after a yellow lab down the street...she wasn't attacking him,,but playing...HER WAY. Which was running by him 100 MPH trying to pick him up and throw him as she went dashing past.   The owners were horrified...and so was I.         I learned a lot when she was new, and lots of people on this board helped me thru this..and explained that once I got past it all, I will love her to death.  They were right.   But honestly,,,I would give my right arm to have her and be the sweetheart that she is...but not treat other dogs the way she does. I would give my right arm to let her play with the Westie across the street from me,,,and the new Bichon that moved next door.  I would give my right arm to have her not feel that she needed to guard my house,,, by barking ferociously at anyone that comes by the door.
That said...I guess if I had a Pit Bull, I would want one that had the personality of my Sammy dog and probably your pit bull...but that I didn't have to worry about around other dogs. And that is where I am coming from when I ask what is so excellent about a dog agressive breed?   Same way I look at my Bubblegum and couldn't love her more...but I can say that I wish part of her wasn't the way she is.

ORIGINAL: Ratsicles

So when one of these American Bullies that is poorly bred and even more poorly raised attacks a person, why is it these dogs are called "pit bulls" and the APBT breed is blamed for the actions of a mixed breed dog? They're introducing human aggression into a breed that is NOT human aggressive and instead of calling it what it is- a mutt- they're spoiling the name of an EXCELLANT breed of dog.

Indeed, why are they called pit bulls? Is it ignorance? Is it done out of malice? Or is it because it is nearly impossible to clearly identify a pure bred American Pit Bull Terrier? I do not consider myself ignorant or uneducated when it comes to identifing most dog breeds but to be honest I cannot tell if a dog is a pure APBT. Even looking a members who display Bullys in their avitors and sig pictures, I would be hard pressed to tell if they are pure or mixed breeds. Certainly all APBT are not bred to standard, so even their size and shape can be misleading. So I would really appreciate it if you could educate me on how to identify a true Pit Bull.

ORIGINAL: dyan
And do you say that this is by nature or it was taught to them to not bite the human while fighting for its life?  Because everything I have read says not to break up a dog fight...that even your own forgets who you are in the excitment of the fight. Any breed. Is the PB an exception to that?

The pitbulls bred for fighting were also bred to not bite people, period.  A dog that bit, even during the heat of a brutal fight, was culled.  Their was no toelrance for dogs that bit.  They were therefore bred for extremely low human aggression.

Dog aggression is not something most people today want to breed for, but the pitbull was developed by people who did find that an excellent trait.  I'm sorry if I misunderstood Dyan, but I really did think you were slamming pitbulls pretty badly, and misunderstanding the pitbull (especially with the fierce thing.)  I'm glad to see that isn't what you were doing.

Indeed, why are they called pit bulls? Is it ignorance? Is it done out of malice? Or is it because it is nearly impossible to clearly identify a pure bred American Pit Bull Terrier?

i think most people refer to the bully type as a pitbull. including apbt, bts, amstaffs, ambulls,staffordshire bull, etc...
and i'm sure you've all seen the find the pitbull thing. People often ask if Wyatt is a pit...i've heard the same for viszlas and mastiffs. Any short haired dog with a big head is a pit bull in some people's minds.

I found a website that explains it...
[linkhttp://www.realpitbull.com/center.html]http://www.realpitbull.com/center.html[/link]
 
 
ETA: in case someone hasn't seen it
[linkhttp://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html]http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html[/link]