Pit Bulls break in home

Bob-

Where do you stand on pit bulls??
I mean, I am just so very unclear on your stance.

Because see:

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8 I don't know how many dog fights you have seen or been involved with, but once it starts it is very hard for anyone to think clearly. You run on instinct, and hope for the best. Later when you get home, you can sit down and list all the pro's and con's of what happened and who should have done what to whom, but at the time that Dobbie was in the attack mode, and someone could have been killed. If that Pit Bull was my dog, he would be treated to a big steak dinner when he gets out of quarantine......

http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/howtobreakupdogfight.pdf

You seem OK when the pit bull saved my friend's life and her children's lives.

Oh, and here, too, this is my favorite, I think:

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: IrishSetterGrl

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8
I don't know how many dog fights you have seen or been involved with, but once it starts it is very hard for anyone to think clearly. You run on instinct, and hope for the best. Later when you get home, you can sit down and list all the pro's and con's of what happened and who should have done what to whom, but at the time that Dobbie was in the attack mode, and someone could have been killed. If that Pit Bull was my dog, he would be treated to a big steak dinner when he gets out of quarantine......

To clarify, I didn't say anything about the people's reactions/actions in this, I was referring to Kain's. I believe that dogs know how much pressure to apply with their mouth/jaws when biting. When a dog wrestles with its owner, it won't "bite" its owner's arm nearly as hard as it would an attacking dog. So I just don't understand why Kain attacked at the neck and must've put enough force and pressure in his bite to do some serious damage, and killed the dobe. I know the dog was only protecting his family - I'm not saying he's viscious. I'm just saying that one good bite may have done the trick, and it's unfortunate that the one family had to watch Kain kill another dog and the dobe's family had to watch another dog kill theirs in a split second. It's is a horrible incident, and again I wish the best for Kain and his family.

The point that I was trying to make, was that if people get confused on a second to second basis, as to how to react, how on earth can a dog make a perfect decision, with just the right amount of force? That is ridiculous in my opinion.. The Doberman attacked, the Pit protected it's family from the attack, end of story. If a mugger attacks me or my family, the last thing I will be thinking about , is applying just the "right" amount of force so that I don't hurt mugger too badly . I will probably be thinking more in the lines of smashing his ##@@ head in.. I am sure that is exactly what the Pit was thinking, and the Pit should be commended for his actions.

And then there's this from the same thread:

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: Nikki_Burr

Just a little food for thought - I think it's entirely likely that Kain, being a dog, is a little better at reading dog behavior and intent than a group of people on a forum who only have descriptions of the incident to go by. I'm inclined to believe he acted accordingly.

Excellent Post!!! I guess what bothers me about some of the posts on this thread, is the second guessing or Monday morning quarterbacking that the Pit Bull is getting regarding his actions. If the Doberman owner was going to try and blame this on the Pit Bull instead of her dog, that is probably the same "logic" that she would use.

All your quotes can be found in [linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=393382&mpage=1&key=]this thread.[/link]


I'm confused.
What turned you against pit bulls???
And I'm with DPU. I'm unsure if you blame the owners or the dogs.

Can you please clear that up?

ORIGINAL: sillysally

1.  The media made up the story
I'll give you a dollar if you can find where I said this
2. It wasn't the dog's fault, it was the owner.
Yes Bob, we have been through this.  Dogs are animals.  Animals cannot form intent.  Animals are not responsible for their own actions.  Why?  Because as pointed out, they are a-n-i-m-a-l-s.  Human beings have decided to domesticate dogs (which, once again, are animals) and are therefore responsible for the actions of said animals.  Period.  No ifs, ands, or buts.
3. The Victim did something to provoke the attack . ( they even tried to pull this one regarding a sleeping 6 year old girl, in her own bed that was mauled by a Pit Bull, on this forum a couple of months ago. )
See point #1
4. The person posting the story is "ignorant" and they don't know what they are talking about.
I'll plead the 5th on this one......
5. The dog wasn't a Pit Bull, but was probably a Golden Retriever of a Lab, and mistaken for a Pit Bull. ( This is really funny when there is a photo of the dog)
Huh, didn't see that anywhere in this thread.
6. If you don't  want to live in a sub-division with a couple of nasty dogs living next to you, you should go over and lecture the dog's owner about being a "responsible owner."....
Because it's better to just kill all the pit bulls and let God sort them out, right Bob?  Much easier that way.  And why would you care, YOU would never own one of those horrible, nasty pit bulls anyway.  No skin off your teeth.

Did I say that each post by each person used all the bullet points, or did I say that the same bullet points are brought up over and over again when discussing this topic.  Geez.....

Hence BOB you are beating a dead horse.
 
What is your stance on Pit Bull's??? Seems like you evade the questions others are asking and like to stir the pot so to speak or change courses.....
 
Can you answer one question??? What is your stance on Pit Bull's?

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

Bob-

Where do you stand on pit bulls??
I mean, I am just so very unclear on your stance.

Because see:

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8 I don't know how many dog fights you have seen or been involved with, but once it starts it is very hard for anyone to think clearly. You run on instinct, and hope for the best. Later when you get home, you can sit down and list all the pro's and con's of what happened and who should have done what to whom, but at the time that Dobbie was in the attack mode, and someone could have been killed. If that Pit Bull was my dog, he would be treated to a big steak dinner when he gets out of quarantine......

[linkhttp://www.leerburg.com/pdf/howtobreakupdogfight.pdf]http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/howtobreakupdogfight.pdf[/link]

You seem OK when the pit bull saved my friend's life and her children's lives.

Oh, and here, too, this is my favorite, I think:

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: IrishSetterGrl

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8
I don't know how many dog fights you have seen or been involved with, but once it starts it is very hard for anyone to think clearly. You run on instinct, and hope for the best. Later when you get home, you can sit down and list all the pro's and con's of what happened and who should have done what to whom, but at the time that Dobbie was in the attack mode, and someone could have been killed. If that Pit Bull was my dog, he would be treated to a big steak dinner when he gets out of quarantine......

To clarify, I didn't say anything about the people's reactions/actions in this, I was referring to Kain's. I believe that dogs know how much pressure to apply with their mouth/jaws when biting. When a dog wrestles with its owner, it won't "bite" its owner's arm nearly as hard as it would an attacking dog. So I just don't understand why Kain attacked at the neck and must've put enough force and pressure in his bite to do some serious damage, and killed the dobe. I know the dog was only protecting his family - I'm not saying he's viscious. I'm just saying that one good bite may have done the trick, and it's unfortunate that the one family had to watch Kain kill another dog and the dobe's family had to watch another dog kill theirs in a split second. It's is a horrible incident, and again I wish the best for Kain and his family.

The point that I was trying to make, was that if people get confused on a second to second basis, as to how to react, how on earth can a dog make a perfect decision, with just the right amount of force? That is ridiculous in my opinion.. The Doberman attacked, the Pit protected it's family from the attack, end of story. If a mugger attacks me or my family, the last thing I will be thinking about , is applying just the "right" amount of force so that I don't hurt mugger too badly . I will probably be thinking more in the lines of smashing his ##@@ head in.. I am sure that is exactly what the Pit was thinking, and the Pit should be commended for his actions.

And then there's this from the same thread:

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: Nikki_Burr

Just a little food for thought - I think it's entirely likely that Kain, being a dog, is a little better at reading dog behavior and intent than a group of people on a forum who only have descriptions of the incident to go by. I'm inclined to believe he acted accordingly.

Excellent Post!!! I guess what bothers me about some of the posts on this thread, is the second guessing or Monday morning quarterbacking that the Pit Bull is getting regarding his actions. If the Doberman owner was going to try and blame this on the Pit Bull instead of her dog, that is probably the same "logic" that she would use.

All your quotes can be found in [linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=393382&mpage=1&key=]this thread.[/link]


I'm confused.
What turned you against pit bulls???
And I'm with DPU. I'm unsure if you blame the owners or the dogs.

Can you please clear that up?

I don't like mean, aggressive , Pit Bulls and in two different cities that I have lived in , there have been plenty of them as I have described on numerous threads on this topic. Just in the county where I live now, there have been more than a few people including children and parents walking their dogs, mauled in the last year, by these animals. Every time this discussion comes up in a local newspaper or on a dog forum, the PB fans come out on the attack and start blasting everything in sight, OP, the Media, the Police, the Victim,   etc..etc... acting like these dogs couldn't possibly be causing these problems.

  The gang bangers and troubled teens buy these dogs everyday, because they are attracted to the breed. ( Very often they buy 2 at once) I suspect that the Michael Vick story will increase the number of these dogs being purchase in the Atlanta area, since he has many fans that still support him and think dog fighting is pretty cool.  These are the dogs that you encounter when walking in public parks, at the dog parks, running loose, and chained in back yards all day. They are a threat to the safety of other properly behaved dogs, children and adults, when they get loose. This is reality folks, not fantasy. My point is that there are many people that do not want to live in an area where these dogs are present. A co-worker of mine was forced to sell his house, some months back, because of a new neighbor that moved in next door to him that had a couple of really hostile PB's in his backyard. 

By the way, the  article that I started this thread today with has been on National News all day long, CNN, FOX, CBS, NBC, so apparently the networks and quite a few people think that it is an important topic, and yet one person on this forum even questioned why I bothered to start a thread with it...  

[ORIGINAL: Bobsk8
I have found that whenever people jump to the defense of a Pit Bull, no matter what the circumstances, the same bullet points are brought up, over and over again.

1.  The media made up the story
2. It wasn't the dog's fault, it was the owner.
3. The Victim did something to provoke the attack . ( they even tried to pull this one regarding a sleeping 6 year old girl, in her own bed that was mauled by a Pit Bull, on this forum a couple of months ago. )
4. The person posting the story is "ignorant" and they don't know what they are talking about.
5. The dog wasn't a Pit Bull, but was probably a Golden Retriever of a Lab, and mistaken for a Pit Bull. ( This is really funny when there is a photo of the dog)
6. If you don't  want to live in a sub-division with a couple of nasty dogs living next to you, you should go over and lecture the dog's owner about being a "responsible owner."....

I find this to be true as well. As someone who has absolutely nothing against Pit Bulls and truly believes the problems and reputation of the breed should lay squarely at the feet of their owners these types of comments make my cringe. Everytime the focus is shifted away from the real problem (irresponsible owners) and placed on the victim, false identification of breed, dishonest media etc. IMO it damages the whole credibility of the fact that it is about the owners of the dogs, not the media, not the victim, not the fence, not the doggy door. It's all silly speculation as far as I'm concerned.

ORIGINAL: denise m


[ORIGINAL: Bobsk8
I have found that whenever people jump to the defense of a Pit Bull, no matter what the circumstances, the same bullet points are brought up, over and over again.

1.  The media made up the story
2. It wasn't the dog's fault, it was the owner.
3. The Victim did something to provoke the attack . ( they even tried to pull this one regarding a sleeping 6 year old girl, in her own bed that was mauled by a Pit Bull, on this forum a couple of months ago. )
4. The person posting the story is "ignorant" and they don't know what they are talking about.
5. The dog wasn't a Pit Bull, but was probably a Golden Retriever of a Lab, and mistaken for a Pit Bull. ( This is really funny when there is a photo of the dog)
6. If you don't  want to live in a sub-division with a couple of nasty dogs living next to you, you should go over and lecture the dog's owner about being a "responsible owner."....

I find this to be true as well. As someone who has absolutely nothing against Pit Bulls and truly believes the problems and reputation of the breed should lay squarely at the feet of their owners these types of comments make my cringe. Everytime the focus is shifted away from the real problem (irresponsible owners) and placed on the victim, false identification of breed, dishonest media etc. IMO it damages the whole credibility of the fact that it is about the owners of the dogs, not the media, not the victim, not the fence, not the doggy door. It's all silly speculation as far as I'm concerned.

Ahhh, but apparently you and Bob disagree.  YOU think (and I completely and totally agree) that the fault lies with the owners.  Bob thinks that pit bulls plan and carry out attacks all on their own as some sort of home grown doggie terrorist operation apparently........

And again Bob, it is NOT the dog's fault. It was trained at the hands of it's HUMAN - Irresponsible owner. A Pit Bull is one of the most loyal dog's around and they respond only to please their owner and do what is asked of him/her to do. Again, irresponsible owners...... Not the dog's fault.

This is why WE as Pit Bull owners are trying to shut down Pit fighting rings, educate the public on responsible pet ownership. We also don't condone this kind of behavior, or irresponsible ownership of this breed. We know what kind of damage it is capable of, banning them or killing them is NOT the solution. Harsher enforcement, jail time, etc. I would if it came down to having a special license and proof of responsible ownership to own one, I would do that. But, as you stated, people owning one because they have "short mans" syndrome or trying to prove a point with their own masculinity and improper ownership don't need to have one. I agree with you there. How about turning that negativity into a positive and meeting a NICE Pit Bull, cgc, agility, or SAR, even a working dog for the disabled. Then making comparison's to bad handling, temperament and the correct way to handle, raise and train a Pit bull.

You wouldn't go through all that to do research before you make an assumption that ALL Pit Bull's are ghetto material and are just plain BAD - Butt's, right?

Edited to add, now I am really done.  Untill we can come up with a solution to the Bad rap,  I say Punish the DEED and NOT BREED.

are brought up over and over again

just like the plethora of new threads for the same anti-pit topic?

and yet one person on this forum even questioned why I bothered to start a thread with it...

again, same topic, different day which seems to mean flooding the board for the purpose of perpetuating stories of the problem without viable solutions.
 
I have seen many people suggest viable solutions that don't involve banning the breeds/type.  What are your suggestions?  Other than arguing the same point that some pits are doing serious damage - which, btw, NOBODY here is arguing with.  But the key here is the word some and the plausible solutions are in the why of that, not in the "I don't care, get rid of all of them"... because, again, if you don't work against the why, then we are doomed to repeat this through breed after breed, type after type - including GSD-mix types.  They're on the battlefront radar.
 
You don't have to own a pit to educate yourself about them.  I don't want you to own a pit, in fact, but that's not my decision to make about your rights.  You don't want them in your community?  I don't want some attitudes perpetuated in my cyber community, but they're there.  I have to learn to understand them and then accept them while they don't impede on me.  I will accept that this apparent anti-aggressive-pits-but-I-won't-be-capable-of-distinguishing-which-pits-are-truly-aggressive-and-therefore-all-should-be-banned standpoint is a fierce one.  But the minute that standpoint is legislating against me, I and many others will be fighting back with more ferocity than you will ever see in a pit.  Trust me.

But the minute that standpoint is legislating against me, I and many others will be fighting back with more ferocity than you will ever see in a pit. Trust me.

 
[sm=bravo.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif]
 
Well said Miranadobe.

By the way, the article that I started this thread today with has been on National News all day long, CNN, FOX, CBS, NBC, so apparently the networks and quite a few people think that it is an important topic, and yet one person on this forum even questioned why I bothered to start a thread with it...

Yes, questioning the intent of your thread was silly, Bob - you would like to ban pit bulls and/or "pit bull type" dogs and are using this incident as evidence of why, correct?

ORIGINAL: denise m


ORIGINAL: dgriego

There are a lot of things wrong with this story. The lady had small dogs and a dog door. Did she not have a fence? it seems that perhaps wherever she is that the dogs were able to go outside into the "world" via the dog door? Were the "pit bulls" also "running free"? I guess it is "possible" to have these dogs leap a fence and come into a dog door but it seems unlikely. How big was this dog door? Most people with small dogs have a small dog door. True PitBulls are fairly wide in the chest and I cannot see them easily getting through a small or medium size dog door.

Sounds to me like both "owners" were negligent.

A disabled woman, asleep in her bed. How on earth is that negligent?

Where does it say that the lady had small dogs?
"after the pit bulls attacked the woman they went after a neighbor's Jack Russell...."

How does not having a fence or too big of door make you negligent?

I understand everyones need to discredit bias misinformation against Pit Bulls, but to twist things and suggest that this poor woman brought this upon herself in anyway, to me crosses the line when attempting to defend the reputation of this or any breed. The negligence lies totally with the Pit Bull owners - Period!

 
What dog door did they run through to attack this poor helpless women, it seems to imply the dog door was into her home, must have been her home if she was in her bed. If she doesn#%92t have dogs why does she have a dog door? Especially one big enough for pit bulls to run through!
 I am not blaming anyone, and if you want to discuss bias information then why is it that most stories like this, when you get all the details are found to have been bias in their presentation and faulty in their facts. quote "Massive dogs belonging to "Mission: Impossible" star Ving Rhames attacked and killed a live-in caretaker" end quote! Well we know how that one turned out. I will not be surprised to find there is more to this story than has been released.
 The media should refrain from reporting until they know what they are reporting and they should refrain from pinning it on any breed until they know what breed it was. For the caretaker that died at Rhames' estate they blamed, mastiffs, bullmastiffs, bulldogs, filas and it turned out that it was none of the above.
 Yes owners are responsible for the actions of their dogs! ALWAYS, I have no problem holding the owner of this particular dog accountable for the attack, but those of you who come out and say the breed should be banned or that all should be PTS are just out of your minds.
 
 By the way, I am not a PIT BULL OWNER; I will never own one so I am not BIAS in my defense of pit bulls. I have nothing to lose if they ban pit bulls except the realization that it might be my dog next, followed by yours.

[linkhttp://www.kirotv.com/news/13943140/detail.html]http://www.kirotv.com/news/13943140/detail.html[/link]

video info on the attack here. Dogs came through a patio door that was left open, they were after the ladies service dog and the jack russel that was staying there at the time. Woman tried to protect the dog and the dogs turned on her, her forearms and face were injured.They killed the dog she was trying to protect.

The neighbor who owned one of the dogs and was watching another for a friend says he had one of them chained in the backyard the other was loose, the yard was fenced and he does not know how they go out.
 
 I have to admit after watching the video and seeing the dogs and hearing the woman describe what happened I am shocked. I will also admit that the reporting on the site I have listed seems good. The dogs (and there are pics of them) were after the other dogs, the lady is messed up pretty good (pics of that to) and she cannot be blamed for being negligant as she seems to be somewhat special. Very sad story.Not good for Pit Bulls, Not good for the fight against BLS. The dogs in this one should be put down. Owner should have the crap kicked out of him and then should go to jail.

ORIGINAL: sillysally

Ahhh, but apparently you and Bob disagree.

 

Apparently so. But the fact that I share the same position (owner responsibility) as others, does not mean I have to agree with the points/comments they make. For example...

Bob thinks that pit bulls plan and carry out attacks all on their own as some sort of home grown doggie terrorist operation apparently........

I noticed you just let the "pepper spray" thing lie there after you denied saying it.  I guess I can't blame you.  Bob, in case you didn't realize it, what you are witnessing is what it looks like when you get spanked on an internet board.  []
 

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

I don't like mean, aggressive , Pit Bulls

 
I don't either and I am apprehensive or afraid when first meeting one.  Sorry but I did not read your other threads, so did you have actual encounters and negative experiences with the dogs?  There is a great tendency of backyard over the fence talk to be greatly exeraggerated so I like it when members with strong position have actual experience to give their stories creditability.
 
Do you want to ban PitBulls?