"Children should sleep with parents until they are five"

 I always thought letting kids sleep in your bed was just WEIRD.  William had a crib NEXT to our bed from the beginning, because that's what health officials recommended at the time.  Newborn till 6mos - in a cot in parent's room.  I was happy with that - I know I wouldn't have been happy with him in another room.  I'm his mother, I need him near me and he needs me near him.... that's nature, the way we are wired.  Why overrule it?  We have evolved that way for a reason.

That said there were some nights he did spend in our bed because I fell asleep while feeding.  Seemed like the most natural thing in the world and if DH was agreeable I would be willing to try it with the next one, with one of those cribs that you kinda attach to your bed, so you still have enough space... BUT I can almost guarantee he WON'T be OK with it, and I'm OK with that too

mrstjohnson

I also agree, China poisoned their babies' milk on purpose, sorry but not taking advice them them.

This is just bizarre.  This advice is not coming from China, China is simply used as an example.  If this advice could save infants and prevent that kind of heartache, to ignore it simply because China was used as an example is a pretty extreme case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

mrstjohnson

Part of the idea is to prevent the baby from getting so deep into the sleep they "forget to breath"

I think it's called sleep apnoea. So yeah, the advice is to put them to sleep in a less natural, less comfortable position so they don't sleep as deeply.  They have a lesser quality of sleep and are more likely to wake in the night, but you have to do it that way so they have less chance of SIDs.  The link to co-cleeping is that being close to his mother helps the baby to regulate his temperature and breathing.

I dislike the way the article is unclear on the cause of high levels of cortisol - is it from being alone, or is it from being left alone while crying?!  I didn't get that, and the bias of the article put me off a little.

Just a few more notes on co-sleeping.... there are safe ways to do it and unsafe ways to do it, just like with putting a baby in a cot.  In a cot, you are supposed to put the baby on his back, not use a duet till he is over a year, no pillows or soft toys etc.etc.  There's "rules" for sleeping in the big bed too.  If either parent smokes - more risk of SIDs.  If either parent has been drinking a lot, or is on some kinds of medication - more risk of SIDs.  If the parents have a duvet (quilt) on the bed rather than sheets and blankets - more risk of SIDs.  So, my understanding is that if any of those conditions are present, then baby should be in a cot.

Newborns should only sleep by their mother (not father or sibling) because the mother's bond with the child is different.... your body reacts to the presence of the baby without conscious thought (unless you have had alcohol/drugs for example).  This is assuming the mother is breastfeeding....  I don't know if the same response is present if bottlefeeding and I suspect it isn't - at least not to the same degree.  So if I were bottlefeeding, I would probably prefer the baby to be in a cot, to be on the safe side.

Chuffy

Newborns should only sleep by their mother (not father or sibling) because the mother's bond with the child is different.... your body reacts to the presence of the baby without conscious thought (unless you have had alcohol/drugs for example).  This is assuming the mother is breastfeeding....

Is there science to back this up?

Cita

Is there science to back this up?

I don't know if there's science to back any of this up.  I  think that you just wind up doing whatever works and whatever lets everyone get a few hours of sleep.

Joyce

fuzzy_dogs_mom

Cita

Is there science to back this up?

I don't know if there's science to back any of this up.  I  think that you just wind up doing whatever works and whatever lets everyone get a few hours of sleep.

Joyce

Sounds like a plan to me! 

Just as an anecdote, BF slept in his parents' bed pretty routinely until he was about 8. When he slept in his own bed, he would have nightmares and come to his parents' room, crying. So they just gave up and let him sleep with them when he wanted to. He had an older sister and a younger brother at the time, neither of whom had similar issues. Around 8 years old, he just decided that sleeping on his own was fine, so started sleeping in his own room again. No drama, no issues.

BF is now quite fine and content to sleep on his own, but he still is very snuggle-needy. I think for him it's just a temperament thing - he craves that physical comfort. Fine by me - I slept in my own bed for as long as I can remember, but I like snuggles  too :)

I think I was the most paranoid mother when it came to SIDS. I was constantly worried that I'd go into the room, and Addisen wouldn't be breathing anymore. I guess that's why I stared at her in her sleep for months.. Now that she's almost two and drains all of my energy each day, I no longer have these concerns lol.

We're all wild sleepers, so there's no way a child could be in our bed. Addisen would have her foot in my nose, and Brett would have us both covered with blankets over our heads.

 I don't have any children, but at work when we discharge babies...we tell the parents absolutely not to let the baby sleep in the bed with them.

Here's a strange one for you...for those that remember Breastpump gate when I was nursing Riley, the mom that lent me her pump...well, she sleeps with her daughter (who will be two in November), and her DH sleeps with their son (who will be 5 in March).  Sorry, something wrong there.

the few times Meri slept in bed with me, I didn't get a wink of sleep. I woke up horribly cranky and NOT a good mom. AND she's a violent sleeper. I got smacked in the face several times by flailing limbs. So no, co-sleeping I could never do. We did have an arm's reach co-sleeper for when she was an infant. But even with that she would wake up every time Scout turned around in his crate, which would wake me up, which would wake hubby up and none of us was happy with that. At 6 weeks we put her to sleep in her crib and she slept for 6 straight hours. It was the right thing for us. My SIL co-sleeps though and her children are terrible sleepers and cannot fall asleep on thier own. Have to be nursed AND rocked to sleep(they are 1.5 and 3). Seeing that first hand made me not even want to consider that as an option.

Cita

Chuffy

Newborns should only sleep by their mother (not father or sibling) because the mother's bond with the child is different.... your body reacts to the presence of the baby without conscious thought (unless you have had alcohol/drugs for example).  This is assuming the mother is breastfeeding....

 

Is there science to back this up?

Yes.  If you look up how to co-sleep safely it should be mentioned, but I have read articles on it, which I can try to find for you if you like.  

In the meantime, the let-down reflex is one everyday example of this phenomenon (sp?)

marlania

I guess that's why I stared at her in her sleep for months.. Now that she's almost two and drains all of my energy each day, I no longer have these concerns lol.

Me too!!!  I couldn't even let Will take his daytime naps upstairs while I did housework at first.... I had him nap near me or I would keep running upstairs to check on him.  We had to turn the monitor right down in the evenings when he went to bed because the sleep apnoea thing threatened to give us both repeat heart attacks. 

mrstjohnson

Here's a strange one for you...for those that remember Breastpump gate when I was nursing Riley, the mom that lent me her pump...well, she sleeps with her daughter (who will be two in November), and her DH sleeps with their son (who will be 5 in March).  Sorry, something wrong there.

I don't understand why?  If that's how everyone gets sleep, and the kids needs are fulfilled, what is "wrong"?

A lot of this has very little to do with what is "right" or "wrong" or even what is best for our children, and has most to do with what we are used to, the social norms we have grown up with.

ewin0210

AND she's a violent sleeper. I got smacked in the face several times by flailing limbs.

Odd, I hear/see so many comments like this, and have made them myself even.... yet apparently *I* am a "violent sleeper", but DH doesn't refuse to sleep in the same bed as me!  I'm not sure, maybe if you do it from the word go when the baby is a less mobile sleeper this is less of an issue.  

My mind is less closed to this idea than it used to be, but I doubt I will ever co-sleep myself - unless you count falling asleep during night feeds.  That said, I no longer think it weird when I hear of others doing it, even up to school age and beyond.  And I do think that, based on various research and articles I have read, co-sleeping will be RECOMENDED by health professionals, eventually.  It will take a long time, because like other baby-related issues (like feeding for example) it's such a money spinner! You aren't meant to use bumpers in the cot, but they are still sold.  WHO recommends not feeding solids until sometime after 6 months, yet baby food is still labelled as OK from 4months (despite the fact that starting solids so early is shown to have an adverse effect on the digestive and immune systems). 

Unfortunately, the people providing the products for our children do not hold the health of infants above the health of their wallets.  And please note - not all of these unscrupulous individuals live and work in China.

I find it strange that there are people out there who refuse to allow the baby in their bed - but allow the dog in their bed.  Refuse to allow a newborn a cot in their room, but are OK with a new puppy spending the night in a crate at eye-level.  Yep, those people exist.... they will wax lyrical over the benefits to letting the pup share the room, even the bed, but stared in slack-jawed horror when it is suggested the same beneficial experience is extended to human infants. 

 My oldest never slept with us - he stopped being BF when he was three months and slept in a swingie thing in our room until he was eleven months old. He didn't even like to be held. From there he went straight into a normal bed in his own room. Oddly, he's now extremely clingy and until very recently (he's ten) was a serious "mama's boy."

I slipped into a co-sleeping sort of thing with my younger son. We did have a pac n play in our room but most nights he ended up just sleeping with me. I was having terrible sleep issues and it was so much better simply to prop myself up a bit, feed him, and go back to sleep. And he was BF a lot longer than PJ - nearly a year.

Again, strange, but Joey is my confident, independent boy. We have a terrific, healthy relationship. I can almost read his mind but I don't get in his business. He's eight and seriously harum-scarum. He's the one you turn around and he's 50 feet up in a tree chasing a lizard. I had to lay down the rule with him - he's only allowed to climb EVEN with the two story windows in our house. If he's looking DOWN at the second story, he's too high!

Both of them nap with me but don't demand it. When I was ill the last couple of years, there were many stretches where the bed was the only place they could GET "mommy time." So I wasn't about to throw them out.

With Joey I remember I had a sort of "mommy radar" and was aware of what he was doing all the time. He was really pretty active and a very strong baby. He was another that would flip himself around and there was not much to stop him - but I knew it and could bump him baack on his back - sort of in my sleep.

I can do the same thing with puppies, for some reason. Except I know when they need to go out, not BF or diaper changing. LOL!

Oh, don't even get me started on this one.

Outside of the occasional family bed camp-out in the livingroom and a healthy mother/child bonding with infants, I think a closer look is needed if we're asking who's "needs" are being fulfilled at the expense of a child when it comes to certain "sleeping arrangements". Emotional incest/rape is an interesting topic, for any who cares to google it up, and the issues between mothers and sons are the ultimate social taboo.

Often the worse scenarios are mothers who use their children (especially sons) to meet their emotional needs for affection or to act as an anti-sex shield between them and their husband in the bed. These women usually also burden their sons (and sometimes daughters) with the details of their unhappy marriage, thus stealing the child's sense of security and innocence.

I know of one gal who slept with her son until he was 13 years old. Did she sexually molest him? No. But it's emotional rape and child abuse all the same. Mama's boys (ever date one?) are not men who are spoiled by their mothers, they are men who are ruined for any healthy relationships with adult women by having to constantly meet their mother's bottomless pit of emotional needs.

Yes, what I have to say here is describing the extreme end of the spectrum, but often what starts out innocent enough takes an ugly turn when the adult doesn't have a healthy internal boundary system.

The kid needs his own bed, his own space, his own identity, and his dad as a role model.

Chuffy

mrstjohnson

Here's a strange one for you...for those that remember Breastpump gate when I was nursing Riley, the mom that lent me her pump...well, she sleeps with her daughter (who will be two in November), and her DH sleeps with their son (who will be 5 in March).  Sorry, something wrong there.

 

I don't understand why?  If that's how everyone gets sleep, and the kids needs are fulfilled, what is "wrong"?

A lot of this has very little to do with what is "right" or "wrong" or even what is best for our children, and has most to do with what we are used to, the social norms we have grown up with.

I dont know about right or wrong but it seems to set the kid up for failure.  How will he sleep well if he has to be in the hospital, dad has to travel, he goes to a sleepover at a friend's, etc?  It's like when I got Nikon several people suggested that I NOT always crate him for naps b/c then he'd never learn to settle and sleep on his own unless stuffed in a crate.  To me it's like taking the binky away from the baby.  Do it sooner rather than later or the kids will grow way to attached and it will make it so much harder for them to sleep without it.