Serial Killers

It is important to note that the crimes mentioned above happened with a different NFL management and the stricter personal conduct policy was not in place at the time.  Several harsh penalties have been handed down since the new policy took effect.  This included the suspension of Pac Man Jones before any conviction.  The league has decided they do not want players who tarnish thier image. 

ORIGINAL: TH
  The league has decided they do not want players who tarnish thier image. 

what little i know about pro football history... it has come a long way in regards to its image. i read that they used to hire mercenaries and thugs to play on teams....

And Babe Ruth was a mean drunk...past is past. NOW the NFL is trying to clean things up.
 
There have ALWAYS been wankers on pro teams...because wankers tend to like to compete and be physically gifted enough to get away with being wankers...lol.

remember Imus? i read recently that his little fiasco has had a backlash on the rap music industry, which is just fine with me. i was in a shopping centre parking lot and couldnt believe the filth spewing at top volume from some guy's car!! i DONT have virgin ears, but that was just disgusting and i cant wait for that garbage to end.....

 
Not sure what this has to do with the topic unless one were trying to make some sort of statement from a cultural standpoint? 
 
If race were to enter the discussion of serial killers...well then things would get interesting and Mr Vick and his nefarious co horts would "fit the profile" even less...lol.
 
BTW wasn't the topic of this thread "serial killers" and how Bob is trying to put that together with Vick?

no not bringing race into it, but morals i guess. i have to wonder what kind of person thinks its ok to play "music" that is cussing and spitting vulgarities in a wal mart parking lot with kids and families all over the place. i'm not opposed to loud music, or rap, but just like some things shouldnt leave the bedroom... some music should not be played in public (just my own opinion) besides that we have a law against blasting radios..
ETA which also relates to the strictness being implied on the music industry which also applies to the strictness being applied to the NFL. it isnt happening in one place. many things are under the gun and being questioned if they are healthy for society to witness. i think violence on prime time tv will be next.
people are just getting fed up with crap being thrown in their faces, even in their own homes.


and nah i dont think he is a serial killer but going back to my statement before... when kids go to these kinds of events (dogfighting) and see that its ok to maim and kill for fun then how will that effect them when they grow up?
i dont know if they would turn into Ted Bundies but they would certainly display some disturbing behaviours to those that are close to them.

i have to wonder about the ones that think he should be allowed to play and say that its just a dog...
its just a dog to them... his actions outside of the dome have nothing to do with the game. who cares if he killed a bunch of worthless dogs.
now getting back to the race standpoint.... i say it has nothing to do with it. its perfectly legal in Japan to fight dogs. they have centres dedicated to dog fighting. the dogs are dressed in full ragalia and celebrated as athletes. Bull fighting is legal in Spain and a whole lot of other places. in Mexico they have horse fights. and last i heard(2002) cock fighting was still legal in LA.
all kinds of people go to these events and bring their families along with them.
but i think it takes more than just spectating to make a serial killer.... as has been said before, these are emotionaly deprived people, probably have chemical problems and other factors - which is talked about in my NDR thread about baby advice... some links posted there say letting babies cry themselves into hysterics can have long term damage on their brains and effect them emotionally when they grow up.... who knows. if that is the case then there should be more seriel killers..... maybe there are and they just havent been bold enough to move on to people....
these things are well hidden from EVERYONE until its too late.

I listened to a 1 hour program featuring a lifelong law enforcement person who designs training materials for othe law enforcement people and has done so for much of his career. He also loves dogs, and hence the program.   He describes a clear connection between the type of sick individual that attends and or organizes dog fights, and people that wind up as serial killers.

 
If anyone would be interested in reading a document on the actual definitions and profile of serial killers...this article would be a good way to educate oneself.
 
[linkhttp://www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/Documents/Docs/Doc5.html]http://www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/Documents/Docs/Doc5.html[/link]

Well, I'm bipolar and have an active imagination....
 
One of the things that stood out for me in this article was the quote: "Rarely do any of these killers act for money, instead they do it for the thrill, sexual satisfaction and/or dominance they achieve in their own world."
 
For me, I consider those who watch and participate in dogfighting as in it for the "thrill". Those who get off on seeing animals maimed, torn apart, and slowly tortured (and yes, dog fighting is torture) should be no different than someone who lights a fire to an animal or anything else. Not only is DOGFIGHTING abuse...but he "allegedly" (bullsh*t) was involved in killing dogs that did not perform well: ELECTROCUTION, HANGING, and BEATING TO DEATH. Sorry, but that is violent, sick and cruel especially sice he oh, so "loved" his dogs. And if he is capable of it then why wouldn't he be capable of taking it further?

ORIGINAL: ark3

Well, I'm bipolar and have an active imagination....
 
One of the things that stood out for me in this article was the quote: "Rarely do any of these killers act for money, instead they do it for the thrill, sexual satisfaction and/or dominance they achieve in their own world."
 
For me, I consider those who watch and participate in dogfighting as in it for the "thrill". Those who get off on seeing animals maimed, torn apart, and slowly tortured (and yes, dog fighting is torture) should be no different than someone who lights a fire to an animal or anything else. Not only is DOGFIGHTING abuse...but he "allegedly" (bullsh*t) was involved in killing dogs that did not perform well: ELECTROCUTION, HANGING, and BEATING TO DEATH. Sorry, but that is violent, sick and cruel especially sice he oh, so "loved" his dogs. And if he is capable of it then why wouldn't he be capable of taking it further?

That is the same thing that the law enforcement expert  that made these training tapes said regarding people that take part in  dog fighting, and this is a person that has dealt with people that commit violent crimes, his entire career. He said that these dog fighting people  are beyond sick in his opinion...... As I stated in a previous  post on this thread , some of the law enforcement professionals that he sent the training tape to, in order to  demonstrate what dog fighting was all about, thought it was so horrific, that they couldn't even watch it and sent the tapes back to him.  These are people that see violence  and the results of violence as part of their jobs, and they couldn't deal with it.

  I was at the demonstration at the Falcons Training camp on opening day, and the pro Vick people there looked like they were the type of people that would enjoy  lining up for a gang war. The cops walked over to our group several times, and warned us not to get to close  to them as they looked like "they were a rough bunch".  They had signs stating that  " It's Only a @@@@ing dog"....

A key thing to remember though is that any human can suspend their conscience and empathy in the case of something they define as an "it"--as something so other and alien that we do not feel an automatic connection based on the recognition that "you are like me". The book I'm reading right now (see my post above) gives the example of a celebratory 4th of July bonfire....what if all the people gathered around that fire suddenly saw a human being in the fire, suffering and being burned alive? Surely everyone would freak out and the heroic amongst us would go against their own self-preservation instincts to save that person. On the other hand, what if it was suddenly realized by everyone at the bonfire that that was Osama bin Laden in there burning alive? How many people would then risk their own safety to save him? And how many otherwise normal people would see that sight and instead of freaking out in horror, celebrate? To most Americans, Osama bin Laden is the embodiment of evil--we do not think of him as human and we do not feel a connection with him at all.

Not everyone feels an emotional connection to dogs, or any animal. While serial killers often start with animals it is because they know they can easily get away with it, not because they are learning that kind of detachment with animals and then eventually transfer it to humans.

I'm certainly not making excuses for dog fighters and people who commit animal cruelty, but I am saying that it does not automatically stand to reason that these same people will turn on human beings the way they turn on animals.

ORIGINAL: houndlove

A key thing to remember though is that any human can suspend their conscience and empathy in the case of something they define as an "it"--as something so other and alien that we do not feel an automatic connection based on the recognition that "you are like me". The book I'm reading right now (see my post above) gives the example of a celebratory 4th of July bonfire....what if all the people gathered around that fire suddenly saw a human being in the fire, suffering and being burned alive? Surely everyone would freak out and the heroic amongst us would go against their own self-preservation instincts to save that person. On the other hand, what if it was suddenly realized by everyone at the bonfire that that was Osama bin Laden in there burning alive? How many people would then risk their own safety to save him? And how many otherwise normal people would see that sight and instead of freaking out in horror, celebrate? To most Americans, Osama bin Laden is the embodiment of evil--we do not think of him as human and we do not feel a connection with him at all.

Not everyone feels an emotional connection to dogs, or any animal. While serial killers often start with animals it is because they know they can easily get away with it, not because they are learning that kind of detachment with animals and then eventually transfer it to humans.

I'm certainly not making excuses for dog fighters and people who commit animal cruelty, but I am saying that it does not automatically stand to reason that these same people will turn on human beings the way they turn on animals.

My daughter has a PhD in Psychology, and she says that there is a direct correlation between people that abuse animals in any way, and violent behvior towards people by the same person.  The link is not someone's opinion, but based on a great deal of research. 

http://www.paws.org/help/report/connection.php

and the pro Vick people there looked like they were the type of people that would enjoy  lining up for a gang war. The cops walked over to our group several times, and warned us not to get to close  to them as they looked like "they were a rough bunch". 

 
Bob...do expound on the type of people you think would be involved in  a "gang war" please? 

While serial killers often start with animals it is because they know they can easily get away with it, not because they are learning that kind of detachment with animals and then eventually transfer it to humans.

 
Houndlove didn't disagree with you or your daughter. She made a valid point on WHY they do.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

and the pro Vick people there looked like they were the type of people that would enjoy  lining up for a gang war. The cops walked over to our group several times, and warned us not to get to close  to them as they looked like "they were a rough bunch". 

Bob...do expound on the type of people you think would be involved in  a "gang war" please? 

You had to be there to see for yourself, and if you were there, I guarantee that you would not have wanted to cross the street to the side where they were standing. 

Thanks Gina, yes. It's an acknowledged sign of the potential for psychopathic or sociopathic behavior, along with the other warning signs and I'm not disputing that. The homocidal sociopath, however, has other key features beyond just enjoying hurting animals that involve how their conscience, or superego, functions (or doesn't function as the case may be) such that they are unable to emotionally attach to anyone or anything and are thus free to use humans--beings that a normal person would feel an immediate "you are like me" attachement to--for their own ends (to feel powerful, to get something they want, to destroy the life of someone who has something they covet) without feeling any guilt or remorse.

Which is of course different from crimes of passion (conscience temporarily takes a holiday due to extenuating circumstances), or warfare or gangbanging in which the enemy is relegated to "it" status and thus the normal role of empathy and conscience no longer applies.

and if you were there, I guarantee that you would not have wanted to cross the street to the side where they were standing.

 

I dunno about that Bob...since you mention cops were basically coming over and having discussions with you, and thus were present in force.
 
I'd see no harm in walking past someone on the street in that circumstance. Now walking past them saying things or holding a sign? Sure I see your point...but that's the case in ANY heated protest...comprised of ANY class of people. Heck I saw two old white homowners go at it at a HOA meeting on TV the other day! LMBO....
 
they needed to stay in their corners...but they didn't.