Breastfeeding in public.

huskymom

 

I think assuming that they will all of a sudden start requesting to be nursed in akward situations as they get older is selling them short as well.  And even if they do, they're old enough to understand what No means.  

Absolutely true.  An older baby (say 18 mo. or 2 yrs.) is nursing much more for comfort than survival and can certainly be told *as soon as we get home* or distracted with something else.

Joyce

mrstjohnson

huskymom

BlackLabbie

JMHO, if you can ask for it, you're too old.

That is very much just your opinion nowadays.  I know of babies that can ask for it as young as 6 or 7 months.  Certainly by a year, they've developed some way of requesting it. 

Riley started requesting it a 4 months.  I would hold her and she would try to pull my shirt down/up. 

Just to clarify, I didn't mean 4-7 month olds here....I meant the 2 and defiantly 3 year olds...IMO, they should know what "no" means, and be able to be satified with a cookie or something.

luvmyswissy

Chuffy

BlackLabbie

Chuffy

What about "bigger babies"?  Babies 1, 2, 3 years old - bigger?  How do you do THAT discreetly?

Isn't that a little too old? I don't have children so I'm not sure, but 2 and 3 years old.....?

 

I think the difference here is this, they are not infants and do not need to nurse on demand.  Give the kid a cookie until you leave the store.

But this is my point - WHY!?  If the child asked for an apple and you had one on you, would you "give the kid a cookie" until you got home, because no one wants to see a kid eating an apple?  No, of course not!  It is an arbitrary "rule", one that doesn't really make sense.  (In addition to which, breastmilk is actually superior to apples in some ways!   Not only perfectly healthy and designed EXACTLY for your child to eat, it also contains anti bodies and stem cells that apples don't have.)  Apparently, the "hang up" is in the minds of the mothers.... yet over and over I see examples where "society" expect them to do it in a certain way, or do it at home.  Logically, should it not be more offensive/strange to see a mother giving her kid JUNK - like a chocolate bar or a "cookie" - than to see her give something wholesome, healthy, nourishing and 100% beneficial?

As I said - I would also prefer to breastfeed older babies at home, during cuddle time before we get up and to settle him before bed.  But I am making a distinction here, in that yes that is what *I* would do, but ALSO - I would never say to another woman "you should do that at home".  Are we on the same page?

I also dispute the fact that children don't need to nurse on demand.  Perhaps, sometimes, they do.  Sick children who are breastfed are likely to want to nurse more.  Why?  Well, because it is comforting, but also because nature has seen to it that it's something that will help them get better faster, without filling them full of medicines and anti-biotics.

As for "If they can ask for it, they are too old" - that is merely another arbitrary rule with no logic, scientific facts or evidence to support it.  I cringe when I think that was the reason I stopped Will nursing!

 At last!  I have some articles that sum up how I feel about this one, and so much more eloquently than I could ever hope to express it.... very, very, VERY interesting.  It explains a lot to me, about how far we've come and how far we still have to go and JUST why I don't like the word "discreet" when used in relation to breastfeeding....  Because over and again, I see people who say they support it, or say they can't see a problem, yet use this very word to describe how they/their friend/mother/sister did it, or how you could/should do it... or "modest" or "considerate", or some variation thereof.  It's kind of like a fish not really knowing what this "ocean" is it keeps hearing so much about....!

Article

I personally don't have a problem with people breastfeeding wherever they want, but I also understand that there are still a lot of older people who are shocked by it.  I just regard "discretion" as a sign of respect, and if it were me, and I knew that my conduct, whether it was breastfeeding or anything else, would be offensive to an elder, for example, I would try as best I could to be "discreet".  Discreet is not a dirty word, it's really just the opposite of "blatant", which is what people's behavior is like when they feel entitled, regardless of anyone else's sensibilities.  So, while I think that a hungry child should be fed, in public if absolutely necessary, and I don't think that mothers should be chastised or made to feel uncomfortable about it, I also think that they don't have to turn a blind eye to the sensibilities of others either.  If it were me, and there were a convenient, clean, quiet, place, and an unobtrusive way to accomplish this task, I would do so.  JMHO FWIW

spiritdogs

I personally don't have a problem with people breastfeeding wherever they want, but I also understand that there are still a lot of older people who are shocked by it.

Excerpts from above article:

One man's discreet is another man's disgust

In a debate about whether or not the mother was being discreet, or indiscreet, the true protagonist of the action that is taking place - the child - is rendered utterly invisible.

spiritdogs

If it were me, and there were a convenient, clean, quiet, place, and an unobtrusive way to accomplish this task, I would do so.  JMHO FWIW

Yes they bally well ARE dirty words - "indiscreet and inconsiderate" is a horrid thing to say about someone who is a) doing nothing wrong and b) is, on the contrary, doing the best and most normal thing possible for her child? 

The burden of discretion is on the onlooker, not on the mother calmly minding her own business and feeding her child however they are both comfortable.  If she were to shout, "Hey! Grandma!  Look over here and cop a load of THESE babies!!" then we might be singing the same tune

Pressuring the woman to cover up, move or leave, or in any other way offering her shame is highly inconsiderate to the mother and the child who may, as a result of the episode, or others like it, wean prematurely, with adverse effects on the health and well being of both. On the other hand, what is going to happen to the person who has seen a mother breastfeed and had to (gasp!) look the other way because they didn't like it?  Are their risks of getting breast cancer increased?  Will their children be more likely to suffer from more illnesses and allergies?  Whose health and well being is being affected? 

Another excerpt (oh this woman has NAILED it good and proper....)

We don't just hide breastfeeding from our own eyes, when we tell everyone we have to be discreet: we hide it from the rest of the world too.

So, the elder who perhaps would like the manager to approach the child breastfeeding and harass his mother into stopping, for his/her comfort and/or convenience, is perhaps being rather inconsiderate themselves?  WHY are breastfeeding rates in the developed world so low?  Because society has made breastfeeding all but invisible.  And yep, babies and mothers everywhere are suffering poorer health because of it.

Chuffy

 

spiritdogs

I personally don't have a problem with people breastfeeding wherever they want, but I also understand that there are still a lot of older people who are shocked by it.

Excerpts from above article:

One man's discreet is another man's disgust

In a debate about whether or not the mother was being discreet, or indiscreet, the true protagonist of the action that is taking place - the child - is rendered utterly invisible.

spiritdogs

If it were me, and there were a convenient, clean, quiet, place, and an unobtrusive way to accomplish this task, I would do so.  JMHO FWIW

What I want to know is... because YOU would do that, are you saying that that is what others SHOULD do as well?  Would you be disgusted if you saw a woman breastfeeding in public, with a shocked elder nearby?  Would you think she was being "indiscreet" and "inconsiderate"?  Would you think "they have a lovely nursing room here, why doesn't she use that?  How very inconsiderate of her."

Yes they bally well ARE dirty words - "indiscreet and inconsiderate" is a horrid thing to say about someone who is a) doing nothing wrong and b) is, on the contrary, doing the best and most normal thing possible for her child? 

The burden of discretion is on the onlooker, not on the mother calmly minding her own business and feeding her child however they are both comfortable.  If she were to shout, "Hey! Grandma!  Look over here and cop a load of THESE babies!!" then we might be singing the same tune

Pressuring the woman to cover up, move or leave, or in any other way offering her shame is highly inconsiderate to the mother and the child who may, as a result of the episode, or others like it, wean prematurely, with adverse effects on the health and well being of both. On the other hand, what is going to happen to the person who has seen a mother breastfeed and had to (gasp!) look the other way because they didn't like it?  Are their risks of getting breast cancer increased?  Will their children be more likely to suffer from more illnesses and allergies?  Whose health and well being is being affected? 

Another excerpt (oh this woman has NAILED it good and proper....)

We don't just hide breastfeeding from our own eyes, when we tell everyone we have to be discreet: we hide it from the rest of the world too.

So, the elder who perhaps would like the manager to approach the child breastfeeding and harass his mother into stopping, for his/her comfort and/or convenience, is perhaps being rather inconsiderate themselves?  WHY are breastfeeding rates in the developed world so low?  Because society has made breastfeeding all but invisible.  And yep, babies and mothers everywhere are suffering poorer health because of it.

All I can say is that 29 years ago and only 7 short years ago I breast fed and NEVER did I feel like someone was going to ask me to stop nor did was anyone disgusted with what I was doing.  And by the way my two eldest are only two years apart so I breastfed for almost 5 years straight.  However, I did not whip out and plop my boobs in full view of anyone adult or child to accomplish feeding my baby, I didn't need too.  So with that said no one else cared either.  I can only gather that you have experienced this and why I don't know???  Are you sure this isn't more your hangup than others?  Not trying to underestimate your concerns but maybe your nervous of what people are thinking? My friends never had that complaint either so I wonder what happened for you to feel so isolated with nursing Will?   I'm sure there are some who get disgusted but it is the minority in my experience and that's their problem not yours.

 I'm beginning to sense perhaps a Culture Clash?  Perhaps its more taboo over there still? 

Our Health Units here in Canada have been working hard to educate the public about breastfeeding.  Everywhere you look you see big billboards with a breastfeeding mother and babe.  You're visited in the hospital, at home, and you have LC's available whenever you need them.  Prenatal classes now offer a breastfeeding clinic or workshop post natal.  Its pretty good for the breastfeeding mother nowadays.  I have a 9 year old son and when he was born none of that was available to me.  So we have come a long way in a short while. 

That said, my parents are old school.  When I was born, formula was the way to go.  My mom didn't nurse me because it was too inconvenient.  When she would make supper for everyone(they ran a group home for teenage boys) she would have to go and sit in the bedroom to nurse me and so she quit.  She still believes that to be the truth.  I'm not likley to change her thought patterns concerning that.  In any event, I will nurse in front of her, but not in front of my dad.  

Throwing all the arguments about how its good for my baby, better than an apple, full of all the best the world can offer, isn't going to make him more comfortable.  Why would I want to make him uncomfortable when there is a perfectly easy way to do things alternatively.  Its just as wholesome in the bedroom or the nice nursing room as it is out in front of everybody.  Plus Kelci is likley happier in that room, with the peace and quiet then in the middle of the mall food court anyway.  

In my culture we are taught very young to respect our elders.  On the bus you get up and move if an elderly person gets on.  If you're waiting in line at the bank and an elderly person gets in line behind you, you offer your spot.  You hold doors, smile, and don't argue.  So yes, if I were making an elder uncomfortable, I would give in a little and move out of sight.  They aren't going to be here forever, and that generation will be gone.  The ones that come after are already more tolerant.  I think our children will be just fine when their time comes. 

I think there is a fine line between fighting for your rights and just being insolent.  JMO. (and likely not going to be a popular one)

Just to lighten to mood, my mom told me this story,

One afternoon she was nursing me in the living room, all of a sudden there were all these little boys (my brother's friends - around 5) peeking in the room one at a time.  After she was done, she asked my brother what was going on.  Well, it appears that my brother charged each one $0.25 for a peek at my mom nursing me.  That's my brother, the little business man!

Well, I still agree with Gina.  IF I was ever to BF a kid past 18 months and he was whining for milk in a public place, no way!  And NOT because I'm self-conscious about that sort of thing, but b/c that would be a PITA for me and I literally do not bend to the whims of a child that is capable of eating at meal times.  If my kid was whining for a cookie, or an apple, I'd still say no way!  You can have a snack when we get home or when it's designated snack time.  If the kid couldn't handle running errands with me I'd not take him/her along.

I think this is more a cultural thing. I was raised in a way that you shouldn't be embarrased of natural things, and I am not saying that is ok to pee in the street or things like that.

I have seen so many women breastfeeding in the church, the mall, bus, metro, everywhere! And even though sometimes you see a boob, it's not like is something wrong. I don't feel like that. My husband also says it's nothing shocking.

I remember at my school, when I was in first or second grade, my teacher was pregnant and she let all her students to feel the baby in her belly and after she was on maternity leave, one day she came back and show us her baby, she let us give him kisses and ask questions and she breastfeed the baby in front of us and I don't remember anybody in shock, maybe there were a couple of silly laughs but I remember talking that day with my mom and saying I saw something very important and special. Maybe as special as the day we buried a small bird or the day my brother had to get surgery. I learned to see it as something normal that happens in life and it's good.

Of course is not "the boob show" it trascends as a way to support life.

Sorry if my comment offends somebody.

Chuffy

Pressuring the woman to cover up, move or leave, or in any other way offering her shame is highly inconsiderate

I think everyone here agrees with this. No mother should be made to feel shameful about feeding her baby in public. On the flip side, no mother should feel pressured to breast feed in environments or situations that she finds uncomfortable because she has some obligation to further the 'rights' of BFing women everywhere. You are not a bad mother if you choose not to feed your child in public places. It's one thing to feel you are being 'shamed' into not publicly breast feeding. It is another to prefer to keep it private or discreet. I think you have to realize that for some woman BF is a very easy task. It can be done anytime, anywhere with a minimum of effort and fuss. For others it can be challenging. Babies feed differently. Women can have different 'internal' pressures regarding breast feeding in public. 

I know it is not your intent, but you make is sound that any women who is not willing to openly BF in public, believes in being discreet, refuses a toddler breast milk on demand or heaven forbids opts to bottle feed is somehow less than a good mother, bowing to public pressure and hurting the right of other mothers to breast feed in public. I just don't see it that way. I totally support your rights, your opinions, your views, your decision on when and where you feed your child. I also totally support any woman who chooses differently. One should never have to bow to external/social pressures when it comes to Breast Feeding in public, no matter which side the pressure is coming from.       

Liesje

If my kid was whining for a cookie, or an apple, I'd still say no way!  You can have a snack when we get home or when it's designated snack time.  If the kid couldn't handle running errands with me I'd not take him/her along.

I used to agree with this - then I had a 21 month old.  When your child is literally melting down in a store (for no reason you can determine) you are willing to do just about anything to just get them settled down and get your stuff done.  I am not saying cater to your child - by giving them anything they want - that's spoiling and irresponsible, but there also isn't a lot of reasoning going on with an 18 - 24 month old.  Communication is difficult, it's not as easy as say talking to a 4 year old. 

For example, on Saturday mornings Riley and I go to the Italian market at 7:30 am - have been doing this for nearly a year.  She normally eats breakfast at 9:00 so it's no where near her eating time.  Lately she is just fussy/sassy when we are there.  So, I grab a bagel (which I ALWAYS pay for afterward) and she sits happily eating her bagel or roll while I shop.  I am happy/she is happy, etc.  Now would I stop to nurse her, no.  That is a total PITA.  But she does get something that maybe some people seem as giving in. 

All I am saying is if you haven't been in that position, don't say never.  Because you never know when you are going to NEED to bribe your child.

I am not silly enough to think that what I think would change anyone else's behavior.  All I was saying is what I would do.  I was raised in a culture where a lot of respect was accorded to elders, so I have a sensitivity to their needs as well as my own. 

I think we all know that there are moms who simply feed their kids wherever they are, because the child is hungry, and others who seem to want to call attention to what they are doing so that others *will* be shocked.  There's a big difference between merely exercising a fundamental right to feed a child, and rubbing people's noses in it just to reiterate your entitlement to do so.  Now, as to the question of someone berating a nursing mom in public, that is also rude behavior, and I do not support or condone it one iota.  So, really, all we have here is a situation where people should accord one another a modicum of respect.

By the way, I also think that when little Johnny gets to be two, it's not ok to have him jumping up and down on the seat behind me in the restaurant, or running down the aisle screaming.  A lot of moms seem to think they're entitled to allow that.  So, if it shocked an elder, would that be the elder's problem???  Behavior affects people.  Why would you not do all in your power to make others comfortable in a public setting if it were easy enough to do so???  That said, I do not think you owe anything to someone who would castigate you in the same setting!  

mrstjohnson

All I am saying is if you haven't been in that position, don't say never.  Because you never know when you are going to NEED to bribe your child.

Oh I was a nanny of four, believe me I have BEEN in that position, lol!  I don't have a problem with the example you gave, heck I do the same thing for myself (walk into the store, grab a snack, eat it while I shop, and then pay for the wrapper on the way out).  I just agree with everyone else, at that age nursing is more for bonding and comfort than the child needing to be fed.  I can't ever imagine a situation where I would breast feed a walking, talking child in public.  For me, if it came to that I would just leave.