Doberman attacks family - Pit Bull defends them and kills the attacker

Nonexistent facts you say? I am the ONLY one here to provide numerous primary articles on the subject from influential and non-biased professionals in the field and not ONE of you have even bothered to read them I would wager. It is YOU who are ignoring the facts because they do not support your distorted reality. Look, I initially commented on this thread because I read a story that, as I said before, smacked of false characterization and rhetoric. In addition to the many incongruities and improbable from simple physics alone, I did use breed as another qualifier for the unlikeliness of the story, perhaps wrongfully so. Of course a doberman could have been the attacker or aggressor but I only brought up breed as one possible motive as to why the author chose to misconstrue the true facts behind the incident, assuming there ever was one. It was someone else who decided to turn this into a discussion about breed and breed alone. I am NOT defending the doberman, just defending my perspective on the dangers of the pitbull breed when compared to other breeds of dog. BTW, pictures of pitbulls being nice and affectionate are only extensions of your own distorted reality. Not because that particular animal is dangerous because it may very well be as you say, but it proves nothing as it relates to this discussion. I can show you hundreds of pictures of lions and bears gently playing and being affectionate with their trainers but that does NOT preclude the possibility that trained bears, tigers, lions, etc. should still be handled with care and caution because the danger still exists. I have yet to see one shred of logical discourse come from any of the recent posters in this thread. -Jared (Reno, NV)

crysania

JackieG

I know.  I'm such a idiot sometimes that I still think I might enlighten someone but this poster is not into anything but her agenda.

 

 I know, I tend to do that too.  I'm trying to learn to not waste my time with folks who don't want to listen, who believe in twisted facts and come on boards just to defend their ridiculous viewpoints.  I'm fairly certain this person is ONLY on this thread because they can't handle the fact that maybe a Doberman did something bad.  They need to defend "their" breed.  So be it.  But maligning another based on nonexistent facts?  Uncool and totally not worth your time!

 Wheres that "beating a dead horse" icon?

Astra a PIT BULL???  Seriously.

I have one thing to say.  Do not feed the

gradyupmybutt

Astra a PIT BULL???  Seriously.

I have one thing to say.  Do not feed the

I'm starting to enjoy reading her desperate attempts to convince us that pit bulls are like lions, tigers and bears.  oh my. lol

 Been awhile....hello folks.

Let's have some supporting news stories! I give you:

 http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/alaska.html

 http://www.thedogfiles.com/2011/02/03/stray-pit-bull-saves-woman-child-from-attacker

 http://www.examiner.com/dogs-in-national/pit-bull-saves-owner

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/25/pit-bull-saves-woman-brain-aneurysm-_n_1030966.html

JackieG

I'm starting to enjoy reading her desperate attempts to convince us that pit bulls are like lions, tigers and bears.  oh my. lol

 

Good one, Jackie! 

Wow crazy thread.

Pbs were not bred to be nannies! That is myth that just wont die.

Jackie, no offense, but i disagree that some dogs aren't born with aggressive instincts. We breed for all kinds of traits and those traits come out stronger in some dogs than others. Out of one litter you will have a shy dog a bold dog a dog who loves things that run a dog would doesnt care if something is running, a dog who loves to sniff, etc. Police dogs are bred for protective instincts and work ethic, bcs to herd, lgds to guard. If those instincts arent naturally there the dog is generally considered a pet vs a working dog. If the instincts are there you can build off it. Why would pbs be the exception to this rule?

I think the point is more that ANY dog can be born with aggressive tendencies. I've met some very young and very aggressive retrievers. It's just not breed specific. Yes some put bulls are dog aggressive, but many are not. And you didn't post any REAL articles. Quoting Wikipedia, which gets its stats from media reports. Quoting that dog bite lady? She has an agenda. She ALSO gets her "facts" from media reports. Real articles would be in journals. And most REAL research has shown that the dog's who are the most dangerous are chained dogs, neglected dogs, and abused dogs. Which is, as you might note, not breed specific. Why have more pit bulls killed? They're quite popular and especially are amongst the type of people who neglect, chain, and abuse their dogs. Look at the SITUATION, not the breed. That tells a lot more. And don't buy into the media. They're just trying to get traffic to their sites. Golden retriever bites child makes people sad and not want to read the story. "Pit bull bites child" draws in the suckers who buy into their hype.

Aggression is such a bad word now.  As far as German Shepherds go, it's just not "correct" to have one without aggression.  But I'm not talking about snap-crazy-baby-eating aggression.  Aggression alone is just another aspect of temperament (and by itself is not really a single aspect but something that exists as a result of fight drive, fighting drive, prey drive, defense drive).  But as with any aspect of temperament or any "drive" a dog possesses there needs to be stable nerves behind it *and* an appropriate threshold/trigger level.  My most aggressive dog happens to be CGC, TT, walks in parades, goes out in public weekly, does demonstrations for elementary schoolers, runs free off leash on family vacations, and regularly visits his "aunties" and "uncles" at my office.  He has no bite history, I don't have to contain him when I have people over, and recently he was the "neutral dog" for CGC training and never once even glanced at the people or dogs.  The dog knows the difference between a threat and a normal person or dog going about their business.  That is not something that can be trained, it is genetic and can only be channeled or managed.  So, I agree with Julie that we can't ignore those traits that our breeds have been bred FOR.  I'm not a terrier person and have never owned a pit so I don't know if the same type of aggression applies as it does with GSDs but I personally would be disappointed to own a GSD that was not only confident and stable in nerve but showed strong courage and aggression.  A dog that flips out at every other dog or person passing it on the street, sure there may be some aggression there but I bet most of these dogs would tuck their tails and pee on themselves when presented with a real threat.  Thin nerves and aggression are two different things, not mutually inclusive or exclusive. 

A dog that injures or kills anyone unprovoked, IMO that is beyond this discussion and enters the realm of just plain screws loose in the head.

My issues with these "pit bull statistics" are this...1. Most people couldn't pick a pit bull out of a breed lineup and 2. I think we have to account for the types of people who choose to own this breed/breed type and the correlating lack of proper breeding, training, and control.  I can walk down one street and see several of all the AKC Top Ten dogs represented, but I can walk down a different street and see 49 pit bull types and 1 Rottweiler mix. This hits home for me because certain cultures like drugs and gangs are into certain breed types and it could just as easily become German Shepherds rather than pit bull types.  If that were to happen I would bet that GSDs would now be topping the list of breed responsible for bites or kills.

 I didn't post on this thread 4 years ago because I believed that this was one of those situations where not sharing the incident was best for all involved.  An incident like this, being thrust into the public eye, will do NOTHING to help either breed's reputation.  That said, I know the OP well enough to know that her intent was not to portray either breed in a negative manner.  She was, understandably, proud that "her breed" protected it's family.  I don't blame her at all for that. 

crysania

I'm fairly certain this person is ONLY on this thread because they can't handle the fact that maybe a Doberman did something bad.  They need to defend "their" breed.

I think that you hit the nail on the head with this statement.  As a dobe owner, when I first read this thread, years ago, I was sickened, & angry.  I remember sitting there trying to justify the dobe's behavior & try to blame the pit bull for the incident, but I just couldn't.  If I were put in that situation, I would hope that my dogs would react in the same fashion.  If they didn't, I would be forced to make a very tough decision.  I will say that my safety, my children's safety, & my dog's safety will ALWAYS be put before an out of control, charging dog's well being.  ALWAYS. 

The bottom line is that the dobe's owner was irresponsible.  A ten year old kid should not be left in charge of a powerful, highly driven, protective breed, no matter how "nice" the dog may or may not be.  The parent who allowed their child to have the dog out without supervision is the only person/being to blame for this situation.

ETA:  Bellykose, if you aren't a troll, & you aren't looking to just "stir the pot" so to speak, we have an introduction section where you can say hello & tell us about your dog/dogs.  Hint, hint.

 

Amanda, owner of 2 dobes, one a certified therapy dog, who does not allow her children to take them out in public because she's brighter than that.

I own a pit, a german shepard, and a lab. All three are human friendly...I would NEVER leave a my young child (if I had one) alone with either one of them and certainly not with with all three. BUT I would trust the kid with any one of my dogs over a person I had never met before. If I HAD to leave my dog either with a stranger or my dog, I would choose the dog every time. 

Jewlieee

Jackie, no offense, but i disagree that some dogs aren't born with aggressive instincts

None taken but you might want to re read my posts.  I've said nothing about dogs being bred for aggressive instincts or any instinct for that matter.  My point has been that most reports of dog attacks are based on what some reporter has garnered or others who are ignorant of dog breeds or have no direct knowledge of the incident.  If you look at the link in my original post you'll see why most dog attack information floating around is subject to lots of error. 

I'm well aware of the traits that are bred for in dogs whether it be herding, retrieving, guarding, pointing.  That has nothing to do with why most serious injuries and fatalities occur.

This was a tragic incident, and imo totally due to owner ignorance, Dobes are among the most stable, reliable family pets and/or working dogs around...It's a shame. There should be a law that anyone owning a dog should have to pass a test to prove they're not a total idiot. jmo

........................................................Always expect the worst...You wont be dissapointed................................................

Ok I reread the posts and you are right. It wasnt you I was disagreeing with it was babybear. My bad.

 Wow, just look what happens when I stay away for a few days