Doberman attacks family - Pit Bull defends them and kills the attacker

I kept wondering if Bellykose was a reincarnation of Betsy Perkins or Primrose, speaking of those people who haven't posted for a while...oy, not wanting to go back to those days;-))

Anyway, for anyone who travels back here, despite the age of the thread, if you want good info on the Pit Bull breed, my advice is to seek it from an educated trainer who really knows the breed.  www.pitbullguru.com is one place to start.

 

spiritdogs

I kept wondering if Bellykose was a reincarnation of Betsy Perkins or Primrose, speaking of those people who haven't posted for a while...oy, not wanting to go back to those days;-))

Anyway, for anyone who travels back here, despite the age of the thread, if you want good info on the Pit Bull breed, my advice is to seek it from an educated trainer who really knows the breed.  www.pitbullguru.com is one place to start.

 

Nope, someone else entirely. My name is Jared and I live in Reno, NV. I just call it like I see it and this entire story smacked of twisted facts and false claims in an effort to get across the author's agenda. You can visit any pitbull site you want to get the information you want to so or you can just look up the cold hard objective facts on the issue. Seriously, just look at the stats and draw what conclusions you will. Anyway, as to this story, like I said... bologna.

Well Bellykose, you're opinion on what happened (even though you weren't there) is entirely your own.  However one thing you said made me extremely angry.  You said " the propensity of attacks and violent behavior from the pit bull breed".  Pits themselves are NOT violent.  The owners make them that way (also inbreeding...as with any breed). Pits are used for fighting because they look big and scary and they are tough.  Because they are so widly used to fight (in most cases it unnutered males that have been beaten until they fight) people veiw them as dangerous or aggresive, I myself sometime stop for a second when I see a beefy pit just out of reflex becaus eof the area I live.  Pits AKA Staff terriers are very loving, protective, and loyal.  Not in an aggresive way, but the same as a lab or golden.  They were bred to be "nannies" for childeren and make WONDERFUL therepy dogs.  Infact I've only met a few pits that seemed slight agressive (again because of the area I live in unfortunatly), 95% of all the ones I've met are the most loving dogs I have EVER met in my life.  I have never owned one, nor do I think of my self as a "pit bull lover", I am a DOG lover and I believe that a dog is what the owner makes it.  Yes all breeds have natural behaviors but aggresion isn't one of the pits, that's learned (or like I said bred in by awful breeders), but its rare.

I am sorry babybear but the facts don't agree with your viewpoint. Pure objective statistical reporting as well as numerous peer-reviewed primary research articles performed by professionals in the field (Ph.D.'s, M.D.'s, veterinarians, statisticians, etc.) would lead any objective uncoerced and rational individual to the conclusion that pitbulls do in fact account for a statistically disproportionate number of dog related human fatalities (not attacks mind you I'm talking fatalities). Furthermore, a significant amount of these vicious attacks were carried out by animals who were family pets with no history of fighting or aggressive training whatsoever nor any signs that would suggest the animals were mistreated. This completely nullifies your argument that it is merely and solely environment that brings on the aggression we routinely see from these animals. I could link the articles that address this issue but something tells me my time would be wasted because you would likely never even give them a cursory overview but would respond with some emotional, unsubstantiated, and baseless rebuttal to what I have said.

babybear1016

Well Bellykose, you're opinion on what happened (even though you weren't there) is entirely your own.  However one thing you said made me extremely angry.  You said " the propensity of attacks and violent behavior from the pit bull breed".  Pits themselves are NOT violent.  The owners make them that way (also inbreeding...as with any breed). Pits are used for fighting because they look big and scary and they are tough.  Because they are so widly used to fight (in most cases it unnutered males that have been beaten until they fight) people veiw them as dangerous or aggresive, I myself sometime stop for a second when I see a beefy pit just out of reflex becaus eof the area I live.  Pits AKA Staff terriers are very loving, protective, and loyal.  Not in an aggresive way, but the same as a lab or golden.  They were bred to be "nannies" for childeren and make WONDERFUL therepy dogs.  Infact I've only met a few pits that seemed slight agressive (again because of the area I live in unfortunatly), 95% of all the ones I've met are the most loving dogs I have EVER met in my life.  I have never owned one, nor do I think of my self as a "pit bull lover", I am a DOG lover and I believe that a dog is what the owner makes it.  Yes all breeds have natural behaviors but aggresion isn't one of the pits, that's learned (or like I said bred in by awful breeders), but its rare.

Bellykose, your user name seems to accurately reflect your attitude.  It's a shame that you have bought into the media driven hysteria about pit bulls.  I would like to see the articles you mention that you are so sure won't be read. 

 

Bellykose

a significant amount of these vicious attacks were carried out by animals who were family pets with no history of fighting or aggressive training whatsoever nor any signs that would suggest the animals were mistreated. This completely nullifies your argument that it is merely and solely environment that brings on the aggression we routinely see from these animals.

 I live in an area with a huge population of pit bulls and most of them are not used or trained for fighting.  If pitties were such deadly, unpredictable dogs we'd see serious maulings and fatalities in proportion to the number of this breed owned.  You also neglect to mention that in many attacks the dog breed is not accurately reported.  The majority of fatalities and serious injuries are due to a lack of understanding about dogs and how they can react to certain stimuli and treatment. Unfortunately, many people are ignorant of dog behavior and all they see is the drivel in the media and the "studies" designed to prove a point rather than studies done objectively and without preformed prejudices.

You might want to take a look at this page.  They don't rely on media reports for their statistics.  Also please note the difference between a resident dog and a family pet.   This report is from 2009.  The actual number of fatalaties is incredibly low when you consider the tens of thousands of dogs of all breeds who interact with humans on a daily basis. 

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/2009%20Final%20Report%20DBRF.pdf

You also might want to read a book called Dog's Bite: but balloons and slippers are more dangerous.  Before you start accusing others of making conclusions based on emotion and misinformation you might want to make sure you aren't the one who is reacting from emotion rather than accurate information.

 

JackieG, for all of your alleged knowledge of the facts and data involving dog related human fatalities, not ONCE do you address the disproportionate number of humans deaths caused by pits ("rare" as they may be) compared to other dog breeds. This is especially astounding when you consider the fact that pitbulls are a relatively minute percentage of dog breeds in households when compared to other breeds of equal size and stature such as the Labrador. After all, THIS is the entire point of the issue and it never ceases to amaze me how avid pitbull defenders will choose to willfully ignore this simple truth. And the worst part is, people are DYING every year because of it. "Rare" you say? Tell that to the 18 people who died last year as a direct result of vicious and extremely gory and painful pitbull attacks. Over HALF of all dog attack fatalities last year were caused by ONE BREED! What more facts do you require? Misreporting you say? Once again, you're not listening to your own logic here. That would apply under simple attack reporting where an attack occurs and likely the dog is never found. I can assure you, when a homicide results from a dog attack, the dog IS 99.99% of the time located by authorities and dealt with. Anyway, before I get too emotional about it, on to the facts: http://dogbitelaw.com/images/pdf/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf http://bslforpitsmakessense.blogspot.com/2010/07/pit-bull-attacks-understand-danger.html http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php

JackieG

Bellykose, your user name seems to accurately reflect your attitude.  It's a shame that you have bought into the media driven hysteria about pit bulls.  I would like to see the articles you mention that you are so sure won't be read. 

 

Bellykose

a significant amount of these vicious attacks were carried out by animals who were family pets with no history of fighting or aggressive training whatsoever nor any signs that would suggest the animals were mistreated. This completely nullifies your argument that it is merely and solely environment that brings on the aggression we routinely see from these animals.

 I live in an area with a huge population of pit bulls and most of them are not used or trained for fighting.  If pitties were such deadly, unpredictable dogs we'd see serious maulings and fatalities in proportion to the number of this breed owned.  You also neglect to mention that in many attacks the dog breed is not accurately reported.  The majority of fatalities and serious injuries are due to a lack of understanding about dogs and how they can react to certain stimuli and treatment. Unfortunately, many people are ignorant of dog behavior and all they see is the drivel in the media and the "studies" designed to prove a point rather than studies done objectively and without preformed prejudices.

You might want to take a look at this page.  They don't rely on media reports for their statistics.  Also please note the difference between a resident dog and a family pet.   This report is from 2009.  The actual number of fatalaties is incredibly low when you consider the tens of thousands of dogs of all breeds who interact with humans on a daily basis. 

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/2009%20Final%20Report%20DBRF.pdf

You also might want to read a book called Dog's Bite: but balloons and slippers are more dangerous.  Before you start accusing others of making conclusions based on emotion and misinformation you might want to make sure you aren't the one who is reacting from emotion rather than accurate information.

 

You can always find statistics and articles to support your opinions.

It is rare to find some one who investigates both sides and comes to there own conclusions.

Look no further then history to find statistics and fact to support unflavored group. Such as women. We actually believed in witches at one time with all kinds of “ facts” or women having smaller brains or all the misinformed notations of minority groups thought to be true at one time.

If the statistics against the breed are accurate it still does not count for all those pits out there that have never harmed anyone, bet no one ever studied that.

I would say I wonder why some who feels this way about a breed would come to a forum that is about support and love of dogs to post, but I already know.

I agree to disagree .

 Honestly, why are folks even bothering with this person?  They've clearly made up their mind based on a bunch of media hype and probably read that dog bite site by the crazy woman whose "facts" come from the media.  Instead of actually doing research they just prefer to stick their head in the sand.

Their prerogative.  But it's a shame that even dog people continue to perpetuate such ridiculous things.

 Yeah this person has 11 total posts here and they are all in this one thread.

crysania

Honestly, why are folks even bothering with this person? 

 

I know.  I'm such a idiot sometimes that I still think I might enlighten someone but this poster is not into anything but her agenda. 

So now we're talking about witchcraft and misinformed archaic methods of measuring physical prowess in humans? Look, I think you're missing the point. Numbers don't lie. It's how you interpret those numbers that can lead one to a false conclusion. I readily admit that because it is done often. As a scientist I am constantly amazed at how much people are mislead because the mainstream media tells them that this or that causes cancer when in fact, the statistics prove no such thing. But this issue is different for reasons I have discussed (exhausted) at length. I am on this forum because I AM a dog lover. I have four of them and enjoy every minute with them. But that does not mean I am not also a realist. I understand that it is possible (if not proven) that different breads have different propensities for certain behaviors often as a result of generations of selective breeding for those "desired" traits. Do you think one day a puppy just popped out that had a disposition and innate drive for herding sheep and that is how we got the Border Collie? No, this is something that was bread for. Herding, retrieving, guarding, etc. are instincts that certain breeds of dogs are likely to possess owing to their breeding history. Does that mean all labs will retrieve and all dobermans will be excellent guard dogs? No, it means that they will be more than likely to posses those traits naturally (with little training) when compared to other breeds of dogs. This is the case with pitbulls and other dogs bread to fight and/or attack animals or humans. Again, it doesn't mean every pitbull will do it. It just means they are more likely to because it is in their instincts no matter how long they live without displaying those instincts. The worst part is, with breed specific legislation these traits (once acknowledged by the public) can be addressed and precautionary training or measures could be taken to ensure everyone's, including the dog's, safety. But the alternative is not acceptable in my opinion. The alternative which results in innocent humans, often women, children, and the elderly, being viciously and horrendously mauled and/or killed because of a dog owner's (and entire dog community's) refusal to acknowledge the liability a particular breed of dog poses and taking appropriate protective measures to ensure these tragedies don't happen or at the very least reduce the frequency at which they occur. Protecting innocent life (human and animal) is all the reason I need to continue promoting my point of view... whether it is welcome or not.

PawMaid

You can always find statistics and articles to support your opinions.

It is rare to find some one who investigates both sides and comes to there own conclusions.

Look no further then history to find statistics and fact to support unflavored group. Such as women. We actually believed in witches at one time with all kinds of “ facts” or women having smaller brains or all the misinformed notations of minority groups thought to be true at one time.

If the statistics against the breed are accurate it still does not count for all those pits out there that have never harmed anyone, bet no one ever studied that.

I would say I wonder why some who feels this way about a breed would come to a forum that is about support and love of dogs to post, but I already know.

I agree to disagree .

JackieG

I know.  I'm such a idiot sometimes that I still think I might enlighten someone but this poster is not into anything but her agenda.

 

 I know, I tend to do that too.  I'm trying to learn to not waste my time with folks who don't want to listen, who believe in twisted facts and come on boards just to defend their ridiculous viewpoints.  I'm fairly certain this person is ONLY on this thread because they can't handle the fact that maybe a Doberman did something bad.  They need to defend "their" breed.  So be it.  But maligning another based on nonexistent facts?  Uncool and totally not worth your time!

 Aww look at the vicious killer pit bulls!

 

Clearly very dangerous.  Beware the tongue!  

JackieG

crysania

Honestly, why are folks even bothering with this person? 

I know.  I'm such a idiot sometimes that I still think I might enlighten someone...

You're not an idiot, Jackie.  Remember all the lurkers out there...

crysania

 Aww look at the vicious killer pit bulls!

 

Clearly very dangerous.  Beware the tongue!  

LOL!  I'm so skeered of those nasty pitties.  threegirls Pap got classified as a pit bull by her local AC.  Yep, all the reports are soooo accurate.