Help me understand.............

jenn52

I believe the Bible is God's word and the Bible says homosexuality is wrong.

The Bible also fails to condone slavery. What Christian would live by those words today?  My point is the Bible was written long ago by men of a different time. If you take certain parts literally you have to take all literally. JMHO  

 I'm Greek Orthodox and have no problem with the government legalizing gay marriage. In fact I think it is shameful that they haven't. I would only have a problem if *my religion* started suddenly accepting it - and that is MY business, nothing to do with the government and nothing I push on ANYONE. Gay couples ABSOLUTELY should have all of the same marriage/civil union rights as heterosexual couples in a secular sense. And if you are part of a religion that oks that, great. Like I said, I would only have a problem if *my* religion changed its mind and suddenly started saying it was all good. Does that make sense?

Once you start allowing the religious beliefs of one group to impose on the lives of others, you're going down a very slippery slope

Ah hah, but is that not the same "slippery slope" arguement that many people have opposing the ban? That arguement has always amused me because both sides use it for the same reason. That once you allow gay marriage you will allow marriage between brothers and sisters, father and daughter, a much older person marrying a teenager, etc?

willowchow

I have no issues with it as long as half the couple isn't going to tell me in six months they aren't gay anymore.  That to me just makes a joke of the whole thing.

My best friend was married to a man and 6 months later he told her he wasn't faithful anymore and didn't want to be married anymore.  There are PLENTY of man/woman marriages that are simply for convenience.  Just last weekend a friend recommended I marry into the military so that I could get their health insurance benefits since I have none.  Should that be illegal?  This suggestion above being a condition to allow marriage has me puzzled.  Of ALL the reasons.

And for our Christian friends who follow the Bible I think it's right for you to vote as you believe.  That is fine.  I vote as I believe, too, you can only go from what you believe is right and true and good for yourselves and fellow members of your community.  I am just astonished right along with purplepets that so many people believe that gay people should not be afforded the protection of a legal marriage.  By denying the access to a marriage it is a form of punishment for their "abomination".  It's a religious judgement imposed on everyone.  I think I understand your dilema, but I am still astonished that someone would deny a couple rights to legal protection.

Krissim Klaw

Rwbeagles- If this is not intended to be a debate thread you probably should tell the original poster to edit the first post and take out the line, I want this thread to be a rational debate.  Of course debating is at its core simply sharing your opinions.  If you happen to sway someone or cause a lightbulb moment, that is merely a plus.

I'm back......I wanted to respond while I was at work but I couldn't remember my password

Anyway, perhaps the word "debate" wasn't the best choice for my initial post.  Because I really didn't intend this to be an attempt to change anyone's mind.  I was (and still am) interested in the "why" people feel the way they do.  I'm also curious where the "why" comes from.  

During the course of this thread it is fairly apparent that opposition comes from several sources.  For some it's a belief taught by a particular religion, for others it is an issue with language and what personal meaning certain words hold.  

I must also say that my hope for change has increased because of this thread.  Most people posting expressed the view that homosexuals should have the same rights as heterosexuals.  Thank you.   Personal lives are just that.....personal.  But when it comes to government (of any form) laying down rules......they had better be fair for everyone.........or we're all in trouble. 

I find it really sad that prop 8 passed due to opposition groups spending millions of dollars to spread lies.   My advice for all voters on any issue is to take the time to look at both sides and find the truth.......

My partner is convinced that we won't see things change in our lifetime.  I believe we will. 

Personal lives are just that.....personal.  But when it comes to government (of any form) laying down rules......they had better be fair for everyone.........or we're all in trouble. 

Amen.

My partner is convinced that we won't see things change in our lifetime.  I believe we will.

I'm sure women thought they would never see the right to vote, black people would never see the chance to serve in the military - and they did. It will happen. Because people, and a lot of people, want it to and are fighting for it :)

Now you know how I feel when I honestly admitted some initial misgiving with the name, Hussein.

And you know how I feel when called a sexist for supporting Palin.

And how I felt for being maligned for pointing out a documented misstatement in an Obama ad.

And it's not my intention to get revenge. And I'm not bashing you. But I'm not partisan. I'm not registered to any party and supporting McCain/Palin had nothing to do with them being republicans. Without that team, my choice would have likely been Clinton. I don't agree with her on everything but at least I know her track record.

So, I believe in the spirit of equal opportunity, even if I disagreed with Obama's campaign points. As for racism, I do know one person who is racist. I mentioned him in another post, he can't remember a time when his parents didn't use racial slurs. And it's not that he would usurp the presidency. He's just not supportive of a black man being president. I would say to him a well-worn phrase at work, "Sorry about your luck." Fait accompli, deal with it.

Somewhat in that same vein, there will be equality for all, or there will be equality for none. It starts with accepting the word gay and marriage together, if the people so choose. Union is fine, too, but it should eventually be the same thing. A legal and binding contract with the state. The candidate you voted for, who is now our president-elect did, in his acceptance speech, include gays in the definition of what it means to be an american. Therefore, there will be gay marriage. Maybe not right away, but it's going to happen, as surely as we will elect a president regardless of skin color, or gender. Maybe Cat Stevens could have run. He's white and a converted muslim. If Sammy Davis, Jr. were alive, he could run as the most famous black jew for office. David Lee Roth should run. He's jewish but more importantly, he can still do flying inward crescent kicks at age 62. And he's a certified NYC paramedic. And he can sing. We've had an actor, why not a singer?

I understand the old fart thing. I am old fart against socialism. No one's perfect. Just give it some time. And don't be afraid to state your feelings. I am not. Even when it brings me heat. To thine own self be true. But do have compassion. Don't make me link my video back in again.

whtsthfrequency

I'm Greek Orthodox

I swear this is true. One of my aquaintances was a teacher, a form of greek orthodox priest (I don't remember the exact denomination). And gay. I don't seek out gay friends to fulfill a quota. I just happen to have had friends who are gay.

willowchow

I have no issues with it as long as half the couple isn't going to tell me in six months they aren't gay anymore.  That to me just makes a joke of the whole thing.

I can see your point.  I don't know anybody who proclaimed to gay and then took it back.  I do know people who were married and then came to realize they were in fact gay. 

But even if a person was in a same sex relationship, got married and then a short time later wanted a divorce.........how would that be any different from the millions of other couples who divorce in the first year?

When Massachusetts first passed their marriage laws I thought " Great there will be a rush of people from all over the country getting married just because they can....and in a year the legal system will have a huge mess with all the divorces" .  I don't think that happened. 

Kinda reminds me of the concern we have about puppies when a new dog movie comes out ! 

miranadobe

There are PLENTY of man/woman marriages that are simply for convenience.  Just last weekend a friend recommended I marry into the military so that I could get their health insurance benefits since I have none.  Should that be illegal? 

As I said, I have no problem with the marriage or unions, as long as they are going into it for the right reasons--that's for all people in fact.  The marriages of convenience, etc. just diminish the whole meaning of marriage and if that happens then really what are we fighting for anyway.   

As one person said, why should heteros have all the suffering of divorce, palimony, alimony, etc?

Everybody get some.

One former supervisor of mine had a joke about the three rings of marriage.

The engagement ring.

The wedding ring.

And the suffer-ring.

badoomptsh. Thankyouverymuch.

whtsthfrequency

Once you start allowing the religious beliefs of one group to impose on the lives of others, you're going down a very slippery slope

Ah hah, but is that not the same "slippery slope" arguement that many people have opposing the ban? That arguement has always amused me because both sides use it for the same reason. That once you allow gay marriage you will allow marriage between brothers and sisters, father and daughter, a much older person marrying a teenager, etc?

To be honest, I am likely more free on this point than most people.  I don't give a rat's behind who people marry, as long as they are consenting adults entering into the marriage of their own free will.  Their choice might creep me out, but that doesn't make it my business.  So, I guess for me there is no slop on that point.......

I know that one local couple was in support of prop 8 because when they went to get their marriage license it said "when party a and party b" instead husband and wife and they found that disturbing. I think the term marriage is steeped in a tradition, and some people (me included) are just having a hard time adjusting to the change(s). I'm not homophobic or fearful, it's just that I associate marriage to mean a joining of a husband and wife.

jenn52

So sisters and brothers should marry? Mothers and son? Father and son? Why shouldn't polygamy be legal? If anyone should be able to marry anyone they want, why not allow everything?

Personally I have no problem with incest or polygamy, although there would have to be some special care when writing up polygamy to make sure people don't try to abuse the system and get a free ride with false unions created so a large group of adults could get special tax cuts and such.  I don't have a problem with any couple or group deciding to become life partners, as long as they are consenting adults and there was no brainwashing or coersion along the way.  Why afterall should I care about someone elses love life?

jenn52

So sisters and brothers should marry? Mothers and son? Father and son? Why shouldn't polygamy be legal? If anyone should be able to marry anyone they want, why not allow everything?

 I don't think anybody is suggesting that the legalization of same sex marriage would lead to these sort of situations. 

I don't care who you marry either.  I don't care if the two people are of different ethnic backgrounds, different religions, different generations (as long as they are both of legal age) different income levels......... who cares ?

I am not directing the next statement to you.  I have heard this argument coming from many sources.  I think the notion that granting legal recognition to the relationship between two people of the same gender would lead to chaos is extreme, irrational, illogical and fear based.