Can Toy dogs jump up 15" and thru 4" gate space??

    • Gold Top Dog

    chasza

    Oh, guys, I was so busy trying to get this figured out, that I was totally rude.  I want to say that it is **very nice** talking to you guys again.  I've missed talking to everyone, and glad that you guys were around tonight.  I always feel better when someone answers that I *know*, and I really have missed a whole bunch of people from this board.

    I've just been really busy sorting out my guys health problems (yeah....still). Do have a new interenist from the state vet teaching hospital and she is awesome and helping us to get my guys feeling better and things under control. Seems my guys are a wee bit of a difficult case, and unlike most of you, I simply couldn't handle everything. So, I had to drop spending time here while I spent time elsewhere tyring to find out what was going on with them.

    So, I want to say I am really happy you guys replied to me, and thank you very much for doing so.  I do miss the chats, and hope I can come back here a little more regularly soon.

    Oh, I just now found a picture of what the spears on the doggie panel would look like.   Still just a bit concerned about the height with my bigger dogs (that, and I prefer the solid bar at the bottom, and still having the spears at the top, but the top spears would be staggard - that looks good), but if I gotta go with the spears on the bottom, then...

    here's the pic: http://www.greatfence.com/contact-us.aspx

    Thanks again for your patience with me.  Big Smile

    Lynn

    Hi Lynn, I'm pretty new to the forum but in my opinion - that fence with the spears is totally completely unsafe for dogs, especially small springy dogs and especially young dogs(under 5-7 years), it's a very pretty disaster waiting to happen. I don't know how it would affect the overall look but I would go with just a plain fence 5 feet would be my perferance, and then a small mesh wired all the way up the fence to the topbar, sort of like the green coated mesh that hardware stores sell to go around gardens to keep small animals out if you got the black and wired it to the inside it wouldn't look so bad, or maybe your fencing person would have a better product but ideally you want holes smaller than the smallest foot in your house so it's not possible to climb. One of our min pins is about 8lbs 10 inches at the shoulder and from a sit she can easily jump to my armpit which is slightly over 4 feet, if a dog can jump that high it can get it's paws over the top of the fence and scramble/hoist it's self over, even easier if there's room for a running jump.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Many people around here have attractive post and rail fences with wire mesh, practically invisible, attached to keep the dogs in. If you have a doggy door I would go eight feet high and install concrete footings to prevent digging out.

    • Gold Top Dog

    My dogs have SA. Both of them, and the one before them. It's me, I know. It's mild enough that Emma can be left loose, but she puts herself in a crate when I'm not home. I've never been able to give her access to outdoors while I wasn't around. What she did over the weekend confirmed it. She hopped the ex pen looking for ME. They said she was running around the trailer "searching". My experience may vary, but left to their own devices, my dogs would almost certainly leave an enclosure like that. 15" means they can rest their front paws on it. Emma is broader in the chest, but Ena (the actual toy sized, 11 lb dog) would slide right through that like a greased pig, LOL. Mine are, in general, escape artists. Emma opens crates. All crates. From the inside OR the outside. She opens gates. Again, inside or outside, and the height doesn't seem to matter. She opens doors, and we do NOT have those long door knobs, just round ones. The puppy has been a houdini from day one. I'm sure that all dogs aren't as bad as mine, LOL. They're just rotten....

    • Gold Top Dog

    It is toooo hard to revolve my life around when the dogs have got to be let outside to go piddle. I need a life that doesn't revolve around when they've got to go pee.  I have already installed a doggie door, and they will have an inside bedroom to themselves, with the ability to go outside when they want.  My future sanity requires that they can go in and out as they need to, and free up my schedule some.

    I would feel uneasy leaving dogs outside unsupervised without a really impressive escape-proof fence, also intruder-proof fence: people do steal dogs, and be sure the dogs don't bark non-stop when you're not around. But why do you let the dogs dictate your schedule? mine go out to potty on my schedule and hold it otherwise. Which is, in my opinion, the only definition of a truly housebroken dog.

    anyway, if you buy that fence, I'd cover the inside with wire mesh that extended well up above the top pointy things with an inward slope to contain bouncing dogs.

    • Gold Top Dog

    chasza

    Well, yeah, they will be unsupervised in one part of it.  The part they will be unsupervised in was the part I really wanted to be only 4' high, b/c my house is up a hill right next to the road. A small hill up and there's my driveway. A retaining wall and there's the yard.  When you stand on the road and look up at a 5' tall fence, then it *visually* comes to the roofline and just looks overwhelming. 

    Well since you mentioned your not used to having a small dog, you also need to consider the safety of the small dog from other predators.  A large bird of prey could easily take a small dog.  Depending on where you live, you could be dealing with any number of predators willing to slip over or under a fence for a bite size snack.  Small dogs also can have a higher risk of being stolen because they are small and less threatening looking to would be thieves. 

    Have you considered simply making a little fully enclosed dog run off the side of the doggy door?  Then you can still have your pretty fence, and your dogs could safely go to the bathroom without fear of escape or being attacked by a visiting predator.

    • Silver

    I'm sorry but I have to say it again, it is VERY unsafe to leave dogs alone outside fence or no fence.

    If you are home you could keep an eye on them, but if you are at work, shopping, etc who knows what is going on. Too many bad things can happen when dogs are left on their own.

    It sounds like they are too much of a bother for you. Maybe you should rethink getting another dog. It sounds like you have your hands full now.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    I haven't completely read through everyone's posts, but I just wanted to mention this. I'd be afraid that those spikes would be a strangulation risk - if a dog jumped against the fence it could get its collar snagged.

     

    • Silver

    Krissim Klaw

    Have you considered simply making a little fully enclosed dog run off the side of the doggy door?  Then you can still have your pretty fence, and your dogs could safely go to the bathroom without fear of escape or being attacked by a visiting predator.

    Exactly what I would do.

    • Gold Top Dog

    My JRT is 12" and could easily jump or climb out of any fence if left alone for more than a few minutes if the urge struck.  I take mine to work every day.  I know that isn't an option for everyone but luckily it is for me.   

    I do like the idea of a small run for potty breaks outside the doggy door. 

    Some dogs may never even consider jumping or climbing a fence their entire life but once a dog does escapes, it is so rewarding to be running free doing all the things we don't want them to do they will forever after be fence jumpers,IMO. That's assuming you find the dog and he isn't killed or stolen or any number of horrible possibilites.

    • Gold Top Dog

    janobonano
    I'd be afraid that those spikes would be a strangulation risk - if a dog jumped against the fence it could get its collar snagged.

    That would be my worry!!  Sorry, but that fence is a disaster waiting to happen.

    Have you taken a look at this site:     http://www.bestfriendfence.com/

    • Gold Top Dog

    That is some very neat fencing.  I have been wanting to fence in our front yard and this may be the way. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Lynn -- it depends on the dog.  A pug would be OVER it in a heartbeat.  Tink will jump from a standing position and hit ME in the chest without blinking an eye and just to jump.  It's not even an excited dog trying to get TO something.

    The fence is pretty -- but it wouldn't be my way.  to me that's a skewered dog waiting to happen -- because *something* will be on the other side of that fence that one dog wants to get to.  They honestly are NOT going to think "Oh -- there are pointy things between there -- I'd better not try to go thru". 

    Nope - if there's an open space and they want what's on the other side -- they're gonna do it. 

    A young healthy dog is like a human teenager -- they're immortal and invincible -- if you don't believe it -- just bait them. They'll prove it.  zoom.

    I'm looking right now at the baby gate I have up to keep them from going into the bedroom/hall area while I'm on the computer.  My 16+ year old peke just went thru a 3" space between the fan and the wall (the width of the 'feet' at the bottom of the fan). 

    Why?  She wanted to.  She didn't jump -- she just walked thru.  If Tink wanted to be on the other side she'd have jumped it-- because it's easier to jump something than slow down enough to squeeze thru. 

    Why?

    Because she CAN.

    I was just reading some of the above and the other thing I didn't even mention is -- 15" is the length of most small dogs stretched out (on tiptoe) -- then they put their head thru that 4" gap -- and get their head stuck.

    I'll be honest -- that fence is truly a deathtrap on SO many levels.  Even a bigger dog could get their HEAD thru that 4" space -- not a pit but Luna sure could.  But a head gone thru?  It's not so easy to get the head back out.  The dog tires and the head slides down and gets further penned by the smaller spike. 

    Way too scarey for me.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Ok, I'm not getting that fence.  I want to sincerly thank all of those with positive help.  Jennie and Callie and some others have now convinced me that small dogs have a variety of absolutly amazing abilities.  To think that JRT's - or pugs! - could do the things you described is amazing.   You know, smaller dogs can be more *trouble* in some regards, apparently, than (smoe) bigger dogs can be!  My taller guys have never even tried to jump up on a counter, and they have never gone over the 2 1/2' , yep 2 1/2'  barricade keeping them out of the kitchen when I am not here. No jumping from my guys.   But, the things you guys described in what your dogs did is something that was hard to imagine.  I do believe you now, there appears to be plenty of evidence of the jumpers, and squeezer-thrus. But, really hard to imagine for someone who hasn't been around smaller dogs.  Thank you for the education.

    Janobonano and Callie brought up two excellent points. The collars getting stuck and the the hazards of the shorter spikes.  I appreciate mentioning this possiblity b/c I had not at all considered either.  The shorter spikes was supposed to be for keeping the puppies from squeezing thru, and I didn't notice the obvious of getting the head stuck and then being trapped with the point.  Yep, that is clearly not a good idea.    Thank you both very much for pointing this out as I had not considered either.

    Mudpuppy and Janet Rose, yes I do like that fence. But, I want a more permanent type as this is in my front yard.  I don't have a back yard.  But, it is a good suggestion, and would certainly have been much cheaper.

    There were several other people that were helpful as well, thank you as well.

    For the person who thinks my dogs should 'hold it' until I get home b/c that is a sign of a 'housebroken' dog, well to that statement I say 'shame'.  It is a type of cruelty to ask a dog to hold their urine for long lengths of time, and sets up the possiblity of bladder infections. Asking a dog to 'hold it' for 8-12 hours or more a day when I may need to be away from home that length  is more than inconsiderate, in my opinion, and certainly in my dog's opinion as well.  Even worse for smaller dogs. Don't give me that talk about the dogs get used to it and it doesn't bother them.  When I get home after a 7 hour absence and my 45 lb is crying to get outside, and then pees for what seems like forever, well then, it is the person who is cruel to ask their dog to hold it longer, b/c gee, they are 'housebroken'. People should go to the bathroom before they leave for work,and not ever go to the bathroom until they get back home and see how it feels every single day. And, no, I will not withhold water just b/c my dogs may need to pee in another few hours.    I'll apologize now, b/c I know this paragraph wasn't that friendly sounding.  But as someone who has 'irritable' bladder, I take this 'holding your pee' think in a whole other light, and it really bothers me that people ask their dogs to do this (b/c it really hurts to hold a full bladder and I don't think most people really understand this and have unreasonable expectations of their dogs to never drink any extra water).  So, yeah, if the dogs can go outside to pee on their own, and not be loose, then why wouldn't that be a good thing?

    And, no, my dogs are not 'too much of a bother'. 

    Thank you for your helpful remarks and I appreciate you all teaching me how very suprising smaller dogs can be.  Clearly, I will try and make a careful choice on which type of dog, exactly, it will be.  For example, I adore JRT's, but I don't have the stamina to want to always be 'one-step' ahead. And as for Tink, she must be spring-loaded, 'cause again, never would I have dreamed she could do that!  And a peke going thru a 3" space is also shocking - she must be all puffy hair! Smile

    I am putting up a 4' fence around the dog area. But, *if* a dog does jump over the 4' fence, there will still be a 5' barrier fence around the yard. I am getting a straight, normal fence, with airspace of 3". Normal airspace is almost 4", so this does reduce it somewhat.  If I ever do have a dog that is small enough to get thru this, then I can put up the fine, black mesh that is difficult to notice from a distance, but will be a barrier to the tiny dog getting out. I will endevour to find dogs that will be large enough that this won't be needed. But, there will be no spikes at the bottom, just straight metal going up, as that danger was so clearly pointed out (thank you again).

    Thank you very much.

    • Silver

    "It is toooo hard to revolve my life around when the dogs have got to be let outside to go piddle. I need a life that doesn't revolve around when they've got to go pee.  I have already installed a doggie door, and they will have an inside bedroom to themselves, with the ability to go outside when they want.  My future sanity requires that they can go in and out as they need to, and free up my schedule some."

     

    If this part of your post doesn't make it sound like you are a bit overwhelmed by your pets then I apologize. That's how I read it.

    I'm glad you are going to be doing a different type of fencing and I truly hope it all works out well for you. 

    • Gold Top Dog

      and it doesn't bother them

    I think you're letting your dogs take advantage of you. I can come home after ten hours and no the dogs don't seem to be in a rush to get out to pee. Some of them will hold it for another hour after that in order to use it to mark on their evening run. Never had a UTI, never had an accident in the house, never had a dog "crying to go out" when we arrive home. Days we spend at home the dogs don't attempt to go out to pee during the day. People spend the day drinking coffee and running around and of course we have to go at least every four hours, but at night people often manage to sleep through the night without having to go. Dogs generally sleep all day and don't have to go either.