Can Toy dogs jump up 15" and thru 4" gate space??

ABSOLUTELY and with room to spare.   Tink is about 13 pounds -- she can jump vertically up 4 feet (and if she wanted to cling onto something could clear more than that) and 4" NO problem!  She wouldn't even have to suck it in!!

 Sammy, our min pin x, who is 12' tall, can jump from a sitting position 4 ft., if not more.

Emma and Ena are 13". Both can clear my 4' chain link fence without blinking an eye. Both can clear a solid, 30" door, so it's not climbing. Both can clear a 3 1/2' ex pen, as demonstrated this past weekend. Ena is double jointed in her front legs (a breed trait that Basenjis and Chinese Cresteds share, as African sighthoundy thingamies) and can climb any distance that there is a foothold to. Doesn't matter how tall it is, if she wants over, she does it.

Not so encouraging, LOL. FWIW, neither of them will jump a fence, ex pen, or door if I am nearby. They only do it when they're unsuprivised, and trying to get to me.

Then why do they call them doggie panels for small dogs??

I really don't want to go with the 1 1/2" spacing from bottom to top.  Bother.  Well, is it even worth doing the doggie panel in hopes and prayers that I will get a dog that will stay on the ground?  I've never spent time around small dogs, so I just don't have a basis of decision making here.  Just lots of guessing, but trying to prepare. (and it still look good since it's the front of my house).

What if I did the 5' tall fencing and the doggie panel would be 18" tall then?    Ok, I would have to do the pointy spears at the top of the doggie panel, wouldn't I, in order to keep the little rascals from jumping up 18" and then going thru the almost 4" space.  The actual opening is 3.75".

I wasn't wanting to do the pointy spears at the top of the doggie panel. I was wanting to do them at the top of the fence, but trying to keep the doggie panel section without the spears for safety reasons. 

Jennie,

So, they are really jumping over the chain link, and not climbing?  I thought I would have taken care of the climbing issue by doing the aluminum fencing. 

Oh, and I thought is was one thing to jump up on something, but totally different to jump up and over. So, you're saying they jump the 4' chain link, just totally jump it and land on the other side?   These dogs seem somewhat fearless to me, to do this.

My dogs are pretty springy little things. Emma can leap, from a down position, to my armpit, on command, LOL. I'm 5'4" and she's 5 years old with moderate arthritis of the hips and spine..... She likes to "hup!" into my arms. It's pretty cute, really...

I'm seeing something being stapled to the inside of the fence, if the dog really wants to get out for some reason. I don't think it would look great, but I'd probably end up doing something hokey like stapling hardware cloth to it.

Well, adding more stuff to a fence that is costing me lots of dough, isn't going to be a likely option. And, remember, it's the front of my house.  I totally believe your dogs can jump UP, but would they jump UP and over.???

If I go with a 5' tall fence, then that should surely solve that problem.  But, that still leaves the question about the doggie panel, and my preference of having a straight bar across the top of the 18" doggie panel.  So, you guys think that is out as well?  That I've gotta go with the pointy spears for the doggie panel. 

They could hurt themselves with the pointy spears. The spears would be around the bottom of my bigger dogs chin areas - and that concerns me - an overly excitable terrier with pointy spears under his chin.  This is the dog that has permanent corneal ulcers from repeatedly trying to dig out from a chain link fence (and I had taken the time to make sure all the ends pointed 'out';). no matter there.

Oh, guys, I was so busy trying to get this figured out, that I was totally rude.  I want to say that it is **very nice** talking to you guys again.  I've missed talking to everyone, and glad that you guys were around tonight.  I always feel better when someone answers that I *know*, and I really have missed a whole bunch of people from this board.

I've just been really busy sorting out my guys health problems (yeah....still). Do have a new interenist from the state vet teaching hospital and she is awesome and helping us to get my guys feeling better and things under control. Seems my guys are a wee bit of a difficult case, and unlike most of you, I simply couldn't handle everything. So, I had to drop spending time here while I spent time elsewhere tyring to find out what was going on with them.

So, I want to say I am really happy you guys replied to me, and thank you very much for doing so.  I do miss the chats, and hope I can come back here a little more regularly soon.

Oh, I just now found a picture of what the spears on the doggie panel would look like.   Still just a bit concerned about the height with my bigger dogs (that, and I prefer the solid bar at the bottom, and still having the spears at the top, but the top spears would be staggard - that looks good), but if I gotta go with the spears on the bottom, then...

here's the pic: http://www.greatfence.com/contact-us.aspx

Thanks again for your patience with me. 

Lynn

Oh, that is totally not what I was picturing! It's sooo pretty! I would hate to add anything to it, too.

The answer would be... yes. My dogs can, and DO, jump over things. Only when unsuprivised, and only when looking for me. I'm sure, though, that if there was something they really wanted, they'd do it with me standing there. I live with a terrier and a primitive dog. I am used to their little idiosyncracies Leaping over an ex pen at a dog show and being returned to the travel trailer wasn't expected last weekend. I was in total shock, BUT.... I knew she could do it. I was *right there* but she got out without me realizing it. A terrier person lured her with treats and brought knocked on the door. She was literally just outside of the door when she escaped and I was only inside for less than 5 minutes. The ex pen is 42" tall. That was the older dog, with the arthritis. The puppy has to be crated in the grooming shop, now, because if I step out for a second to help a customer, she comes FLYING over the door (without touching it!) to get to me. It's waist high, to me, so.... a smidge taller than the ex pen?

I am sure that all toy sized dogs aren't like that, but my two certainly are.

Oh, that is totally not what I was picturing! It's sooo pretty! I would hate to add anything to it, too.

The answer would be... yes. My dogs can, and DO, jump over things. Only when unsuprivised, and only when looking for me. I'm sure, though, that if there was something they really wanted, they'd do it with me standing there. I live with a terrier and a primitive dog. I am used to their little idiosyncracies Leaping over an ex pen at a dog show and being returned to the travel trailer wasn't expected last weekend. I was in total shock, BUT.... I knew she could do it. I was *right there* but she got out without me realizing it. A terrier person lured her with treats and brought knocked on the door. She was literally just outside of the door when she escaped and I was only inside for less than 5 minutes. The ex pen is 42" tall. That was the older dog, with the arthritis. The puppy has to be crated in the grooming shop, now, because if I step out for a second to help a customer, she comes FLYING over the door (without touching it!) to get to me. It's waist high, to me, so.... a smidge taller than the ex pen?

I am sure that all toy sized dogs aren't like that, but my two certainly are.

 Yep, many small dogs could jump that if they wanted, though that can go with any fence really.  If a dog large or small really wants to get over it and has a mind too, then they probably will.  My question would be how you plan to use your yard.  If you want to leave the dogs unsupervised then go with as large, and impenitrable fence as you can.  If you are only going to have them in the yard while you are there, then it will probably be less of a problem.  Seems most fence hopping in dogs occurs with bored dogs left alone without anything else to do.

Well, yeah, they will be unsupervised in one part of it.  The part they will be unsupervised in was the part I really wanted to be only 4' high, b/c my house is up a hill right next to the road. A small hill up and there's my driveway. A retaining wall and there's the yard.  When you stand on the road and look up at a 5' tall fence, then it *visually* comes to the roofline and just looks overwhelming. 

 (and I guess there really is a LOT of distractions at dog shows and that is just too enticing to not go exploring!!  I can hear them now,  "gee, mom, what'd you expect?? put me in a candy store and ask me to sit still???  Glad your furbaby was safely and quickly returned!)

Then, I was also going to fence in the driveway, as a seperate area. So, when I am home, they will have access to all the yard, but when I am gone, they will have access to the hill that goes from my house to the driveway.  This is a tiny area. About 40' wide and down the hill. Not big, but a 5' fence just looks overwhelming in this area when looking from so low at the road.

Anyway, I still prefer the *safety* of not having those pointed spears near the bottom of the fence, but from the stories you guys are telling me, it is apparently something I've got to consider.  From what you guys have said, a small dog could jump up the 18" to the doggie panel bar, and then go thru the 3.75" opening.  Wow.  That is just sooooo hard for me to imagine.

I gave the link earlier for the pointy spears at the bottom. (I still want the pointy ends at the very top of the fence).  If anyone is interested, here is a link to a doggie panel without the spears at all.    If this link works, otherwise can go to lvfence.com and there is a small notice that you can go look at their pictures they have installed themselves.  http://www.lvfence.net/Pics/100_0830.jpg

Otherwise I will have to go with allover 2" spacing, which is more stand offf-ish, I think, and also costs more money. http://www.lvfence.net/Pics/alum8.jpg

I'll call the brand I can get locally and see if they can make the posts go thru the top of the doggie panel like they do with the spears, only leave it a flat, square bar. This way, it wouldn't be a spear and be safer, but it also wouldnt' be the flat panel that you guys think could assist in an escape of determined doggies.   I just had liked the look of the doggie panel being flat b/c it draws the eye down more to see all the spears going thru the doggie panel. 

Well, I just now noticed that on the first link from a couple posts ago, it shows both styles of doggie panels - although these are 6' fences, and so my fencing will be shorter, and the doggie panel will take up more visual room.

http://www.greatfence.com/addadogpanelorpuppypaneltoyouraluminumfencepanelsandgates.aspx

IMO having the spears at the top of the fence is just as dangerous as having them at the lower level.

If your dogs would be able to get to the top of the fence either by climbing or jumping they could be hurt by the top spears.

Have you given any thought to them digging under the fence? Again IMO only, I don't think it's ever a good idea to leave any animal unattended in a yard fenced or not.

OK,  I have the info from the manufacurer.

The doggie panel top railing will be 15" high.  I can stagger the posts going thru the doggie panel, and these post will be a flat cut, without a spear.  The short staggard post will be 1" to 1 1/2" from the top doggie panel railing.  The longer posts will be 3" from the railing. 

I am thinking that even with the shorter flat cut, non-spear point, going thru the railing would still make it difficult (not impossible, but difficult) for a dog to get thru. The dog would jump up 15", but then have to manuever thru a 3.75" openiing, with a flat point sticking up an inch or so.

About the spears at the top:  I understand your concern, and it is a good one.  However, I don't think many dogs would jump the 5' high.  My larger dogs that I have now would not do that.  Climbing would be highly unlikely since it's not a chain link fence type, so that only leaves the jumping ability.  I think having spears at the top discourages would be intruders.  Not that we have many around here, but still, it 'feels' safer to me since I am going to the trouble of putting up a fence.  If 'feels' more secure.

I have got to have this fence. The dogs are all my responsibility, and for 5 years, my life has revolved around them. It is toooo hard to revolve my life around when the dogs have got to be let outside to go piddle. I need a life that doesn't revolve around when they've got to go pee.  I have already installed a doggie door, and they will have an inside bedroom to themselves, with the ability to go outside when they want.  My future sanity requires that they can go in and out as they need to, and free up my schedule some.

I still welcome, and appreciate, all opinions and objections as this is helping me greatly to think thru things and consider all aspects.  Thank you all for your point of view

Lynn