Pet Store Puppy

mudpuppy

Shame on you.

Shame on you for sacrificing the lives of the breeding pair.  No strategy is worth that.  Thank goodness your "sit back and spread the word" approach doesn't work and has admittedly been mentioned here.

Still wondering why the "spread the word" approach doesn't include speaking to the many segments of the Pet Industry.  I think the Pet Industry should target the breeder specifically and leave the pet shop owner alone.  But, I also think the Pet Industry could reach more people than any one individual can.  Mudpuppy, how many organization have you contacted and asked them to do this oh so simple request?

DPU

I think the Pet Industry should target the breeder specifically and leave the pet shop owner alone.

 Why?  Those breeders are not consumers of respectable members of the Pet Industry - responsible vets, trainers, dog food producers, etc.  How are they supposed to have an influence on unethical puppy mill breeders when the two factions don't interact? 

The pet stores are the ones who have the potential/choice to interact with unethical breeders.

DPU

mudpuppy

Shame on you.

Shame on you for sacrificing the lives of the breeding pair.  No strategy is worth that. 

I wonder frequently if you are just here to push buttons, maybe you think it's amusing?  Or maybe you are thinking, what are all the REALLY stupid reasons for guying a pet shop dog.... how can I carry them to the extreme and make them look even worse, simultaneously giving everyone here a chance to shoot those reasons down?  Is this your own bizzarre way of helping to educate people?  I am genuinely curious.

HOWEVER, back to topic.... I don't get the post I quoted AT ALL.  NOWHERE did mudpuppy suggest "sacrificing" the breeding pair.  

Dogs are put through horrendous agony, in order to keep pumping out cute little puppies.  As long as people fall for the Ahhhh factor in the pet shop, the agony continues. You would "sacrifice the breeding pair" to suffer THAT kind of life?  *shakes head*  It has GOT to be some kind of twisted joke.

Chuffy

HOWEVER, back to topic.... I don't get the post I quoted AT ALL.  NOWHERE did mudpuppy suggest "sacrificing" the breeding pair.  

I also think it is a very stupid idea to try and sway the general public for purchases that are in high demand.  I also think it is just being stupid for not seeing the harm that is done to the poor animals.  I think the opposition argument, as stupid as it is, is just an extension of the "can't save them all" thinking.  Of course you, any individual can save them all but it takes involvement and a little effort.   Sitting on the sidelines, trying to call the shots for others to act is exactly what is being put forth.  Geez!

DPU

I also think it is a very stupid idea to try and sway the general public for purchases that are in high demand.  I also think it is just being stupid for not seeing the harm that is done to the poor animals.

If that were the case nobody would have bothered to invent hybrid cars.  Cars are bought and sold every day, people are going to buy one if they need one anyway, so why bother to make it more ethical?  Sorry, to me that's the kind of logic that perpetuates the problem. 

Benedict

Sorry, to me that's the kind of logic that perpetuates the problem. 

Thats fine and similar to the effects of your solution, there is no way to sway you which not only truly perpetuates the problem  but encourages others not to try something else. 

Still waiting for an answer from anyone as to whats the harm in singing your one tune song to the various segments of the Pet Industry.  Just simply asking them to go on record as being against the unethical breeder that supplies puppies to pet shops, thats not an effort at all and you would still be trying to call the shots of others.  Its win win.

DPU

Thats fine and similar to the effects of your solution, there is no way to sway you which not only truly perpetuates the problem  but encourages others not to try something else. 

My solution?!  Sorry, I live in a country where selling dogs and cats in pet stores is illegal.  So it seems to me like there really IS a way to stop it, since it has been done here.   Claiming that it is impossible to stop such a thing so we should all turn our efforts to boycotting the dog food those stores sell is just skirting a problem that IS fixable, if people want it fixed.

DPU

Still waiting for an answer from anyone as to whats the harm in singing your one tune song to the various segments of the Pet Industry. 

Still waiting for you to answer why the pet industry should go to the unethical breeders>>>>

miranadobe

DPU

I think the Pet Industry should target the breeder specifically and leave the pet shop owner alone.

 Why?  Those breeders are not consumers of respectable members of the Pet Industry - responsible vets, trainers, dog food producers, etc.  How are they supposed to have an influence on unethical puppy mill breeders when the two factions don't interact? 

And just so I understand this... you want consumers to "sing the song" to the "various segments of the Pet Industry" - which are already "singing the song" right back to us.... and then you want the Pet Industry to go after the puppy mill breeders with whom they don't interact?

Consumers and pet stores are the ones who interact with puppy mill breeders.  Which is why all this talk is about getting information to consumers and boycotting stores who ignore the pleas and sell puppy mill pups anyway.  "Geez!"

Benedict

...I live in a country where selling dogs and cats in pet stores is illegal. 

Are you suggesting the US outlaw the selling of pets in stores or selling the pets in an establishment that is principly set up to sell pets.  That is a better solution but I am sure a lot of people not exclusive to the pet industry would object.  I don't have problem with that route because I would know the officials would be responsible for the aftercare of dogs and pups, no politician will kill a puppy.   But my preference is to not eliminate a choice but to improve the bad parts of the choice.

DPU

Still wondering why the "spread the word" approach doesn't include speaking to the many segments of the Pet Industry.

What does this mean?  Many breeders have very little involvement in the commercial pet industry, such as pet stores and large commercial food suppliers.  So why would they speak out against something that doesn't affect them?  Typically breeders get food and supplies directly on wholesale or from local suppliers and are very selective about it.  They can either sell them for a profit themselves but the ones I know sell at cost or for marginal cost.  I get food, toys, treats, etc from breeders rather than pet shops.  The breeders are selective about quality and integrity.  For example if I want to buy food roll from Nikon's breeder we get it from a local farm that makes it, all organic.  If I want a nice leather lead I get it from SchH people who make their own.  If I need some decent equipment I wait for a big show and buy it from breeders.  Ironically their prices are cheaper too.  Like miranadobe says most reputable breeders and "The Pet Industry" don't really interact.  That's like saying we should hold GM and Ford Motors responsible for speaking out against problems with Microsoft Windows Vista. 

I love the idea of outlawing puppy sales in pet stores!!   Unfortunately, outlawing puppy sales in pet stores, won't happen in the US.  It is estimated that the puppy industry in Missouri alone is valued at 40 million dollars a year. The puppy industry in one county in Pennsylvania - Lancaster - is valued at 4 million dollars a year.  

DPU

Benedict

...I live in a country where selling dogs and cats in pet stores is illegal. 

Are you suggesting the US outlaw the selling of pets in stores or selling the pets in an establishment that is principly set up to sell pets.  That is a better solution but I am sure a lot of people not exclusive to the pet industry would object.  I don't have problem with that route because I would know the officials would be responsible for the aftercare of dogs and pups, no politician will kill a puppy.  

Actually as it turns out, I must correct myself.  I have always been under the impression that it's illegal, but apparently that is a common misconception.  It's illegal to do so without a licence to sell animals, but the reason I thought it was illegal is that I have never once seen a pet shop that sells dogs or cats, and I had heard that it was from several people who are clearly also mistaken. As I have a tendency to visit pet shops whenever I go to a new city for any reason, it is clear that the pet shops themselves have no desire to sell puppies even though they could apply for permission to do so.  I couldn't even begin to tell anyone where they might go to find a puppy in a pet shop.  To me the fact that there is so much outrage that it DOES prevent the sale of dogs from pet shops is actually better than it being illegal - it means that the public can make a difference without reliance on politicians to do it.  That being said, if they passed a law tomorrow preventing it, I don't have a clue what pet shops would be affected by it and I would be very happy that it was written in black and white. 

DPU

But my preference is to not eliminate a choice but to improve the bad parts of the choice.

This, then, is the crux of why we hold differing opinions on this.  You believe that there are good parts to buying a dog from a pet shop.  I do not.  

Benedict

To me the fact that there is so much outrage that it DOES prevent the sale of dogs from pet shops is actually better than it being illegal - it means that the public can make a difference without reliance on politicians to do it. 

After your post I did some surface researching.  In the UK it is illegal to sell puppies without a license, I think you have a two bitch rule.  The stopping of selling puppies in stores came about because an authority stepped in and had to because of the effective lobbying by special interest.  The movement appears not to be solely from massive public outrage.  This shows me and should teach you that the general public is responsible and law abiding and will follow the law.  What UK did was remove a choice and those breeders that complied were probably the good breeders who would be more open to changing how they conduct their business.  That is why you still have the pockets of breeders who produce puppies in masses and illegally sells them in a shop.  I think I saw one of your major newspapers with headline "Help outlaw illeggal mass producing of puppies".  Leave it to the news media to send subliminal message to the public so they can have a story....double negative in their headline. 

What I also saw is the proliferation of on-line selling and buying of puppies.  That is a store in my mind and like here, very unregulated by the government but self regulated within the industry.  To me this is a far worst situation and would require a lot caution and investigation before proceeding to adopt a puppy.

DPU

This shows me and should teach you that the general public is responsible and law abiding and will follow the law.

I really don't need to be "taught" anything in the sense that you mean it.   And I never, ever claimed that we don't have a puppy farming problem, we absolutely do.  However, I firmly believe that removing the "middle man" (pet shops) by any means is a positive step in the right direction.  Do you know what "authority" means here?  In addition to the ordinary meaning of the word, a "local authority" is local government - it means the government stepped in due to protest by special interest groups - groups made up of members of the public who cared enough to get involved, so my "public outrage" point was entirely accurate. 

DPU

What I also saw is the proliferation of on-line selling and buying of puppies.  That is a store in my mind and like here, very unregulated by the government but self regulated within the industry.  To me this is a far worst situation and would require a lot caution and investigation before proceeding to adopt a puppy.

The same thing happens in the US and I agree that it's a problem.  However, how would boycotting pet food manufacturers work as a method of protest against these people?  They aren't selling food in shops that sell puppies here.  This means that the ONLY route to stopping this deplorable situation is protest and word of mouth.  How, exactly, does one boycott an internet retailer other than not shopping there and telling other people not to shop there?  In the US, it IS those online retailers who are also supplying pet shops, in many cases, and even if it is not the same outfit supplying the pet shop, it is the same type.  There is no difference between using your MasterCard online to buy a puppy and using it in a big store to buy a puppy.  The animals come from the same types of sources and are kept in the same vile conditions.  If you wouldn't have a puppy overnighted to you from an online store, you shouldn't walk in off the street and buy one in a pet shop either. 

 Kate, save your breath.  Judging by the number of ignorant posts on this subject, it's clear to me that your reasoned responses are falling on deaf ears.  How anyone who is involved in rescue could actually suggest that pet stores selling puppies is a good idea, given where those puppies come from, is ludicrous, but here we have it.  Online, brick and mortar, there is absolutely no difference in the two - it is the SOURCE where the pups come from that is at issue.  Neither of these two is a good place to get a puppy.   The problem is that if only responsible breeders were selling pups, people who are used to instant gratification would have to wait too long for a pup with health-tested parents, and the best chance the breeder could give it for good structure, stable temperament, and a place to go back to if the owner dies (witness the dog I posted about in General Chat - he had nowhere to go when his owner died - had he come from a reputable breeder and his owner made sure someone knew, he could be sitting at the breeder's house waiting for his new home, instead of counting the days until his euthanasia date!!!!!!!!!