Pet Store Puppy

buster the show dog

The producer of your dogs had no concern about what kind of home they ended up in because the producer of your puppies handed them over to a third party, no strings attached regarding placement. The producer of your dogs had no concern about their future health because s/he had no intention of basing any future breeding decisions on the well being of the dogs that you acquired. That is irresponsible breeding and that is what happens when dogs are mass produced and then disposed of through brokers.

Hmmm, face-value can work for you but not for everyone else.  Your posts are filled with suppositions; assumption; hypothesis, and accusation.  Its apparent to me you have no real knowledge or actual experience.  I am surprised you did not use the HSUS stat of 90% of pet shop pups are supplied by the unethical breeder.  Even that doesn't help your staunch statement that ALL pet shop puppy supplier are unethical.  You will have better luck trying to convince those within your crowd or on the fringe of your crowd to buy the boycott strategy, and oh yeah, in gentle way...right?

DPU

You are correct, everyone has a different interpretation of what is consider the best way to bring a puppy into the world.  Your opinion includes an elevation of your criteria over others, ERGO putting you into a different crowd.  The priority of the criteria between your crowd and my crowd may be different but probably balance out in the best interest of the dog.  You need to recognize what crowd you are in because you surely have no power of persuasion over a different crowd.  Thats one of the biggest mistake of those with opposing arguements is that their only power to change the few and far too many unethical breeders is from within their own circle.

That applies to everything.  Of course I think I'm right, otherwise I wouldn't think it, lol.  That applies to dogs, politics, religion, foreign policy... Yes, we all have our own opinions and form different crowds based on said opinions.  I don't think I'm better than anyone else since I don't even know anyone on this forum well enough to even make a reasonable judgment.  If you like buying brokered dogs, fine.  I do what is right for me and my dogs, period. 

Honestly I have no desire to change unethical breeders.  I'd rather support young, reputable breeding programs than be banging my head against a wall with unethical breeders.  Like you say, everyone thinks they are right and know best, so who am I to tell them to close shop?  This is a free country and if they aren't breaking any laws as far as the treatment of the animals, nothing I say or do can change how they operate.  If people want puppies from them, that's their prerogative but I'm not going to say I agree with it just because people do it.

Liesje

Your criteria are much more loose than most people here. 

That is an opinion but it also attempts to elevate that opinion by bringing in "most people".  Now if you said "my crowd" that would be more believable instead up making up "most people".  The fact is very few have expressed their opinions on this subject and by my count it looks even.  Now don't lose sight that the difference of opinion is how to shut down the unethical breeder described as the puppymiller.  That term does not include ethical commercial kennels or the ethical mom's kennel. 

I don't see how you deciding who here is in which "crowd" and what everyone's agenda is and should be really helps the situation either.  You are criticising others for not offering alternatives (according to you) and yet every alternative being offered is either ignored or excused by you.

Liesje

I don't see how you deciding who here is in which "crowd" and what everyone's agenda is and should be really helps the situation either.  You are criticising others for not offering alternatives (according to you) and yet every alternative being offered is either ignored or excused by you.

Maybe you can list the alternatives that don't place the burden on the innocent buyer who's expectation is that the Pet Industry takes care of how the puppy gets to them.  I really don't understand why the opposing arguers are so protective of the Pet Industry.  That is truly where the power and the money is.

In this area of town, none of the pet stores sell puppies and yet, people have tons of dogs and I see new ones every day.  I got three, my neighbors got one, their relatives got one, I saw several new puppies down the block over the summer, my sister in law got a dog (she lives a few blocks away...., so the theory that the public is so burdened by wanting a dog they get one from a pet store doesn't really fly.  Just today some kids were out raking leaves and they had a puppy so we showed each other our puppies.  It's more difficult to find a pet store puppy on this side of town than get one from any one of several other sources, and yet I don't hear JQP complaining.  I guess the expectation is the problem.  All the pet stores that used to carry puppies have moved elswhere or gone out of business completely.  There is no expectation that pet stores sell dogs.

DPU

Liesje

I don't see how you deciding who here is in which "crowd" and what everyone's agenda is and should be really helps the situation either.  You are criticising others for not offering alternatives (according to you) and yet every alternative being offered is either ignored or excused by you.

Maybe you can list the alternatives that don't place the burden on the innocent buyer who's expectation is that the Pet Industry takes care of how the puppy gets to them.  I really don't understand why the opposing arguers are so protective of the Pet Industry.  That is truly where the power and the money is.

As usual, I think you are missing the point.  Caveat emptor.  The public is not helpless.  It really is possible to put just as much effort into the purchase of a living, breathing, new family member as it is in investigating the purchase of a new computer or refrigerator or automobile.  When I bought my first Ford pickup truck, I knew before I ever walked in the show room that Windsor engines were better than Detroits that year.  I took the time to ask mechanics about the track record of that particular 351.  So, people who want to purchase a puppy can surely ask a vet or a trainer...and some do.  To me, if I am the consumer, I may not like it, but I do have a certain amount of responsibility to shop around and ask questions before buying any commodity.

 Maybe the OP will come back and say whether she bought the puppy...

DPU

Hmmm, face-value can work for you but not for everyone else.  Your posts are filled with suppositions; assumption; hypothesis, and accusation.  Its apparent to me you have no real knowledge or actual experience.  I am surprised you did not use the HSUS stat of 90% of pet shop pups are supplied by the unethical breeder.  Even that doesn't help your staunch statement that ALL pet shop puppy supplier are unethical.  You will have better luck trying to convince those within your crowd or on the fringe of your crowd to buy the boycott strategy, and oh yeah, in gentle way...right?

Well, hey. Prove me wrong. Tell me what the breeder of your pet store dogs did in terms of screening you as a buyer. Tell me what restrictions s/he placed on your ownership of the dogs you purchased. Did s/he require spay/neuter? Did s/he have a contract that you could not pass the dog on to another owner without his/her written permission? Did s/he request periodic updates on the health of the dogs she purchased? Tell me what criteria s/he used to maximize the chances that the puppies s/he produced would live long healthy lives. OFA? CERF? Cardiac Screening? Thyroid checks? Parents rigorously exposed to a variety of circumstances to ensure their tempermental stability? Two dogs put in the cage together to mate and then sold to the first person to come up with the cash? I have no association with HSUS or PETA or any other such animal rights organization, and I base my statements on years and years of experience direct experience with many many phases of dog ownership. But, prove me wrong. Tell me all about all the care that went into selecting the parents of your dogs, and all the scrutiny you were subject to by the breeder before s/he entrusted you with the lives of his/her puppies. Prove me wrong.

ron2

My friend, Lee, had a Ball Python Constrictor named Sulphur. He fed him mice and rats that he could buy at Petco in Plano. The pet supply stores in Frisco wouldn't sell live rodents as food items. In Frisco, you're supposed to buy frozen mice that you nuke to warm up. Some snakes don't go for mice-icles. They know the difference between living and dead prey, somehow. I don't know the way out of that dilemma. To feed the snake properly, you should feed it live prey. Sulphur was a sweetheart at 5.5 feet long and as big around as my forearm. Just don't get in the way at dinnertime. Snakes don't see well and they can accidently strike you if you handfeed them. So, you put the prey in the feeding box then lower the snake by the tail. Anyway, I guess different people draw lines in different places.

We used to feed freshly killed mice.  We had to kill them ourselves and lower the just-dead mouse into the feeding area with tongs.  Most snakes will go for that I think, and it is more ethical than live prey, which is illegal here too.  And rightly so IMO.

miranadobe

It has to stop, and purchase of that puppy does not stop it.

The message of the bulk of this thread, put very succinctly.  Thanks, Paige.  

for the pups that I adopted from a petshop, I was satisified that the process of bringing the pup to me was all ethical.  Your definition of ethical maybe similar to mine.

really? you went and personally checked that the parents of these puppies weren't suffering horrible? because it's not about the pups, who may make it to a good home; it's about the parents suffering horribly. Because of people like you who buy their commodities. Shame on you. Don't give money to dog abusers. It's really quite simple.

No, I didn't get the puppy. I knew/know all the reasons why getting a pet store puppy was wrong. But when faced with seeing the actual pup in sad conditions, I was weakening. I've stopped shopping at that store though.

After the first 6 pages or so, I felt horrible for starting this thread. Then I realized, all the lurkers out there were benefiting from this. For that, I thank you all!!

3girls

No, I didn't get the puppy. I knew/know all the reasons why getting a pet store puppy was wrong. But when faced with seeing the actual pup in sad conditions, I was weakening. I've stopped shopping at that store though.

After the first 6 pages or so, I felt horrible for starting this thread. Then I realized, all the lurkers out there were benefiting from this. For that, I thank you all!!

Don't be sorry at all!!  It's a valid reaction that many of us have, and this thread is a good reminder why we have to stay stronger- plenty of people did benefit from it.