Dog walking off leash

I dont particularly like pitt bulls,and i do fear for my dogs safety when i see one off leash,but i would never,ever in a blind fit tell them,or even expect them to put their dog on a leash because of MY issues.

I guess for me, having been bitten pretty bad by a dog and having relative who were also bitten, it's just a matter of curtesy.  Also, a leash law is a leash law.  I have no right to be walking my dog off-leash in the city zones here.  There have been many instances in the past two years of pit bulls going after people and cops and cops shooting them on the spot.  I won't comment on that (having lived in the neighborhoods where this happens, I know these dogs ARE trained to be human aggressive), but it scares me to think that the police can rightfully shoot my dog on the spot if some scared person starts screaming and yelling that my dog is charging them.  What's the point, really?  Why would I walk my dog off-leash?  Unless there is a convicing reason to do it, I don't see the point.  We have a big yard, we have agility equipment, we have training lessons, we have weekends at the lake, we have 1-2 hour daily walks/runs to do...I honestly don't believe that leaving out off-leash walking is a detriment to the dog.

Edie, do you live in a city?  Maybe our perceptions are so different because I live in a city.  There's not exactly wooded paths and fields and private areas where one can easily walk a dog off-leash without crossing two dozen other people and their dogs also on an evening walk.  Right now I live at an intersection on the busiest road in the county, if not the entire state.  When we move, we'll actually be in the same position, just a street 3 miles west - half a block off the insanely busy street, in a fully developed, urban, residential area.

ORIGINAL: Edie

But I can't expect JQP on the street to instantly let go of their fear, thus I will keep my dog leashed for their sake

I dont particularly like pitt bulls,and i do fear for my dogs safety when i see one off leash,but i would never,ever in a blind fit tell them,or even expect them to put their dog on a leash because of MY issues.

So you would take a chance on your dog being bitten? Not me....

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: Edie

But I can't expect JQP on the street to instantly let go of their fear, thus I will keep my dog leashed for their sake

I dont particularly like pitt bulls,and i do fear for my dogs safety when i see one off leash,but i would never,ever in a blind fit tell them,or even expect them to put their dog on a leash because of MY issues.

So you would take a chance on your dog being bitten? Not me....

i can somewhat understand... i dont own pits, i do own bulldogs though..but no difference to most people.. i know my dogs.. i know i can trust them off leash. they wont leave me, if they do, its only a few feet off trail to explore, but they come when i call them...
but its the other guy that bothers me. its like driving... you might be a good driver, but that wont keep you safe from the idiot talking on the cell phone, drinking coffee, eating a donut, and fiddling with the radio station.....
my dogs are non-confrontational, but they WILL get defensive if another dog gets aggressive... they're bulldogs.. they're supposed to..  except Ben.. but i swear he's part cat.
if i walk my dogs off leash and come upon someone who is walking their dogs on leash.. mine are going to run up and greet them and want to play. that other dog may or may not like other dogs.... if a fight breaks out, guess who gets in trouble? Not the dog that starts the fight..... no. I would get in trouble for not having them on a leash....

i think people who walk their dogs off leash in public should consider that. doesnt matter the breed. its just a chance not worth taking....

So you would take a chance on your dog being bitten? Not me....

What choice do i have? It is not my right nor responsibilty to tell other dog owners to tether their dogs,especially not when my dogs are off lead.I try really,really hard not to be an anal dog owner.These pittie owners would be so used to,and probably sick of,people crossing the street or reacting negatively to their dogs.I just do not want to be one of those overly paranoid,narrow minded folk.

Liesje i dont live smack in the city,but not country either,we have plenty of places within driving distance where i can take the dogs,and the more people and dogs we meet the better.The social interaction my dogs get to have with other dogs is one of their fave parts of our walks.And it's also important that they get to practice their doggy manners as often as possible.

if i walk my dogs off leash and come upon someone who is walking their dogs on leash.. mine are going to run up and greet them and want to play.

Which is why it is imperative that if you are going to walk your dogs off lead that they have a good recall and dont go running up to other dogs without permission.

There was a dog owner in a very heavily wooded park ( Yellow River)  that I frequent on occasion ,  about 10 miles from my home, that had an off leash dog charge up to him and attack his dog about 2 years ago. I guess his dog sustained some serious injuries. Last summer, about 2 years later,  these same 2 men bumped into each other again at the same park, with the same dog off leash.  The owner, whose dog had been attacked the first time, pulled a knife out of his pocket  and stabbed  the other dog owner . He was DOA at the hospital.  I am not sure what happened to the guy that stabbed the other, but it shows what can happen when someone feels  that their dog may be attacked by someone's off leash dog. At this same park now, there are signs all over the place about leashing your dog..   

Wait, you're okay with the possibilty of your dog being mauled because what choice do you have? What choice do you have? You could keep your dog on a leash in public areas and encourage others to do so. That's the choice I've made.
 
Also, can we PLEASE remember that some breeds are not cut out for being off-leash? It's not a matter of training. My coonhound has his CGC and is trained to a whistle recall but he's a coonhound. Coonhunters use very expensive radio collar systems with these dogs to find them after a hunt because they do not come back. A coonhound who leaves a trail and comes back to his owner is useless for his work. Similarily, the sled-pulling breeds also would be useless if they didn't have an instinct to run and run and run and not look back. I really am quite offended at the insinuation that we could all have off-leash dogs if only we would put enough training in to them (and somehow make dog-aggressive dogs magically  not dog-aggressive but I guess that's just because DA dog owners are bad lazy owners too?).

ORIGINAL: houndlove

Wait, you're okay with the possibilty of your dog being mauled because what choice do you have? What choice do you have? You could keep your dog on a leash in public areas and encourage others to do so. That's the choice I've made.

Also, can we PLEASE remember that some breeds are not cut out for being off-leash? It's not a matter of training. My coonhound has his CGC and is trained to a whistle recall but he's a coonhound. Coonhunters use very expensive radio collar systems with these dogs to find them after a hunt because they do not come back. A coonhound who leaves a trail and comes back to his owner is useless for his work. Similarily, the sled-pulling breeds also would be useless if they didn't have an instinct to run and run and run and not look back. I really am quite offended at the insinuation that we could all have off-leash dogs if only we would put enough training in to them (and somehow make dog-aggressive dogs magically not dog-aggressive but I guess that's just because DA dog owners are bad lazy owners too?).

I'd like to address this. I am one of those bad owners who has a dog aggressive dog breed. I am working VERY, VERY, VERY hard with my dog on this issue. BUT IT IS INNATE, INBORN, GENETIC, however you want to say it, IT IS UNHELPABLE (<---is that even a word?). How she reacts to me, and to other dogs WHILE ON LEASH, IS workable.

But don't EVER, EVER imply that I am a bad owner when I am simply following the LAWS in my area because my dog is not allowed off leash. And you know what, Edie? If you are walking your dogs OFF LEASH, in a town or area with leash laws, you'd better pray to GOD that you know your dogs' behaviors and know that if an ON LEASH dog aggressive dog gives them a challenging look, you'd better KNOW that they won't react to it. You'd better know that their recall is as 100% as you think it is. You'd better know it like the back of your hand. Because if not, you have NO right, NONE, to have your dogs off leash around people and other dogs. You'd better know how to read canine body language and interpret it to a "T". Or else you're not only risky the safety of YOUR dogs, but possibly the safety of the on leash dog as well.


I love how people who are KNOWINGLY breaking the laws by allowing their dogs off leash, get all defensive with people who actually follow the laws and leash their dogs.

And, no, it's not EASIER for me to leash MY dog. It's SAFER.

I am not saying the UK is better or worse, but certainly I am saying that attitudes are different. Aggressive dogs are kept away and walked in secluded areas, away from other dogs. (This I know, because I know 3 people with DA dogs and they tell me how they handle it.) I don't know anyone who doesn't take their dog to training classes.

 
Do you feel the banned breed list has had an effect on this? Do you think people worry more about DA because their country has taken the dramatic step of basically outlawing breeds based on perceived behaviors? Asking from honest curiosity...I know if I had a DA dog in a country that banned breed for aggression...I'd probably be worried all the time, regardless of the breed.

my dogs are non-confrontational, but they WILL get defensive if another dog gets aggressive... they're bulldogs.. they're supposed to.. except Ben.. but i swear he's part cat.

ORIGINAL: DumDog

Among the family I refer to my dog as "the cat".  She is such a quiet and laid back weenie and gets punked by "puntable" dogs I think the label fits.  She won't even growl a warning at mean little attack dogs. I thought about letting her get bitten by a little < 10 pound Pomeranian just to see if she would get a clue but decided to run interference and prevent it since she might have gone wolf on her or something.  Its a little embarrasing! 
 
Its funny that the Pom owner told me to kick his dog when it got agressive with mine!  I'm sure he didn't mean kick him hard but I didn't even want to risk hurting it.  My dog has no problem approaching polite larger off leash dogs and playing with them but freezes with puntables. 

This has spun way out of control......saying this after running my dogs tonight, it was raining , so I ran the Excursion to give them their exercise......my neighbors in a car knew what I was doing and stopped their vehicle until we passed......thanks Tracey and Jerry............[]
 
 
Another situation of different breeds not being trustworthy off leash is a little weird......I do agree that some breeds untrained should never be off leash, but I run a Husky/Mal. mix and a Husky/Chow mix off leash.......granted, they follow the German Shepherds, but still.......they stay with the pack......[]

our region has a leash law, but i dont know if its really enforced.... i say that meaning.... i rarely see people walking their dogs off leash. but then... i also rarely see people WALKING THEIR DOGS.... 
i dont know what it says about my region... i dont purposely go around looking to make sure people walk their pets or what ever... the lady across the street has a min pin that she walks with, but this dog is never leashed and is not contained at all. when we first moved here this little runt thought she was ten feet tall and bullet proof....
lesson learned... it is NOT the best way to get to know your neighbours by having your 80lb bulldogs chase down a ten pound ankle biter.... their dog was in my yard, challenged and then ran... my dogs chased the funny black thing and soon found out it would squeak if you stomped on it..... but all the neighbour saw was Big dog stompin on her little dog in HER yard.... yeah.... we were both in the wrong. could have been worse. it wasnt, everyone understood the problem... their dog is still not contained, but mine have an in ground fence. but the min pin does not trespass on our property anymore.

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

There was a dog owner in a very heavily wooded park ( Yellow River)  that I frequent on occasion ,  about 10 miles from my home, that had an off leash dog charge up to him and attack his dog about 2 years ago. I guess his dog sustained some serious injuries. Last summer, about 2 years later,  these same 2 men bumped into each other again at the same park, with the same dog off leash.  The owner, whose dog had been attacked the first time, pulled a knife out of his pocket  and stabbed  the other dog owner . He was DOA at the hospital.  I am not sure what happened to the guy that stabbed the other, but it shows what can happen when someone feels  that their dog may be attacked by someone's off leash dog. At this same park now, there are signs all over the place about leashing your dog..   

That is indeed a scary story, but it's a bit extreme, don't you think? I mean, I don't keep my dog leashed to keep from getting stabbed.

If you are walking your dogs OFF LEASH, in a town or area with leash laws, you'd better pray to GOD that you know your dogs' behaviors and know that if an ON LEASH dog aggressive dog gives them a challenging look, you'd better KNOW that they won't react to it.

Like i said in another post my dogs give dogs which display aggressive or anti social signals a very wide berth,they would more than likely hide behind my legs than  start a fight.I havnt even heard my female growl before!
I have always said that my dogs would be perfect therapy dogs for aggressive dogs,they have THE most docile and non threatening personalities i have ever had in any of my dogs.
How many times have i heard from owners "oh no i cant let my dogs play they are aggressive" but for some reason these dogs are never aggressive with mine,which has been proved over and over when we get the dogs together.There's a lady down the park who will only let her anti-social jack russell off his lead around my dogs and maybe a select other few because he just doesnt react to mine because i can only assume they give off submissive,non threatening doggy language and her dog is fine with them.

A loose pitt mix charged up to my dogs once,teeth showing hackles up,he looked like he was coming in for the kill.My female ran behind me and my male rolled over on his back..This dog literally skidded to a stop as iff he didnt know what to do! He sniffed at my dog,growled a bit and then backed off,i however was frozen to the spot,my dog stayed lied on his back for about half a minute and then got up,the pitt raced back over,my dog averted his gaze,had his tail and head down and just acted extremely submissive.This dog followed us for a little while and then lost interest and went away.

You'd better know that their recall is as 100% as you think it is.

Well they havnt let me down yet,but i do not think anyone can say their dog has 100% of anything,they are not robots afterall! ALthough their good recall hasnt always been the case,obviously i had to train them to recall and there were loads of times where they ignored me or just did not know what i expected from them.How else are people supposed to train their dogs to come back if they are not let off the lead?? [sm=meditate.gif]

Because if not, you have NO right, NONE, to have your dogs off leash around people and other dogs. You'd better know how to read canine body language and interpret it to a "T". Or else you're not only risky the safety of YOUR dogs, but possibly the safety of the on leash dog as well.

Just because a dog doesnt have a rock solid perfect recall does not mean they should never be let off the lead,not EVERY dog will react violently to another violent dog!! [8|] And NO i do not know how to read canine body language to a T,what human can?????All i can say is i can read the basics. My dogs are far better at reading other dogs  than i could ever be.I relied heavily on other peoples friendly dogs when mine were young to teach them doggy manners,things that i as a human just couldnt do as well or at all,i dont talk DOG.A little nip or growl when they were playing too rough,or being ignored (dog turning it's back on them) when they had enough, or sniffed where the other dog didnt want to be sniffed at.They learnt doggy manners quick smart when other dogs showed them how.

Now i KNOW i am NOT the only person on this forum or on the planet with normal,healthy well behaved,socialised dogs.I am getting sick of tooting my own dogs horns and i dont want to come across as bragging and having perfect dogs!

Chewbecca do you believe in aggressive owners make for aggressive dogs? Do you think dogs feed off of their owners fears,insecurities etc etc. I do.And i really do not understand why you are behaving so aggressively toward me.It's like you are trying to make me feel guilty for having well behaved dogs [&:] My dogs are great off lead and there they shall stay,i worked darn hard to get them that way,as i have always done with ALL of my dogs,and freedom is THEIR reward. I do not have aggressive dogs that need to stay on a leash 24/7 and i thank my lucky stars everyday for that!!!

ORIGINAL: Edie


Chewbecca do you believe in aggressive owners make for aggressive dogs? Do you think dogs feed off of their owners fears,insecurities etc etc. I do.And i really do not understand why you are behaving so aggressively toward me.

*sigh*
Do you honestly think that personal attacks are going to help your case?  If you cannot make your arguments without leveling thinly veiled insults at people then perhaps those arguments are not all that strong to begin with.  I have one dog that I got at a year that is great with some dogs and not with others, and one dog that I raised from 10 wks that wants to be friends with every dog he sees.  So does that mean that my dogs are therefore a reflection of some multiple personality disorder that I do not even realize I have?

I don't know why following leash laws is such a difficult concept.  It is not rocket science--the law says you leash your dog in area Y, then you leash your dog in area Y.  If area Z allows off leash dogs, then you may let your dogs off leash in area Z.  It's really very simple.

Whether we like it or not, in a community setting our actions effect the lives of others, and the actions of others effect our lives.  It is a FACT that when dog owners allow their dogs off leash in areas where leash laws are in effect, it reflects badly on ALL dog owners.  Most non-dog people do not see a well trained dog off leash, they see a loose dog, period (and the larger the dog, the more likely it is that the fact that it is off leash will scare someone).  If those non-dog people complain loudly enough, local officals get tired of hearing it and ban all dogs from a park that previously allowed them.  I have read articals discussing the banning of dogs from parks for that express reason--they allowed dogs on leashes to use the park, people refused to keep them on leash, and therefore the park banned all dogs. 

You want to talk unfair?  How fair is it that owners who are actually following the rules lose their park privilages because there were some individuals that for whatever reason decided that they and their dogs where special and that the rules only applied to everyone else?

I really don't care if someone wants to walk their dogs off leash in a place where it is allowed.  One of my dogs is great off leash and I enjoy those walks with him.  However, if I am in a leash only area I keep him leashed, because respecting community dog-related laws are part of what being a responsible dog owner is about.