Nice.....

chelsea_b

You say this, but it's not true to most people in this thread. My opinions don't count because I don't have kids, or because I'm younger.

Chelsea, I don't think anyone meant to imply that your opinions don't count - for any reason.  Some people have just pointed out - in a nice way - that when you do have kids your opinions on a lot of things will change.  Honestly, before I had my own, I actually believed that any kids out in public with dirty faces or stains on their clothes had terrible, neglectful mothers and my own mother did nothing to dispell this bizarre idea. After I had mine, I realized that kids come with this genetic ability to hold dirt inside their bodies and let it seep out of their pores.  How else can you explain putting a perfectly clean kid into the car and pulling out a filthy one when you arrive at your destination?

Joyce

fuzzy_dogs_mom

Honestly, before I had my own, I actually believed that any kids out in public with dirty faces or stains on their clothes had terrible, neglectful mothers and my own mother did nothing to dispell this bizarre idea. After I had mine, I realized that kids come with this genetic ability to hold dirt inside their bodies and let it seep out of their pores.

 

I am reading this and CHUCKLING   Thanks! 

Chuffy

fuzzy_dogs_mom

Honestly, before I had my own, I actually believed that any kids out in public with dirty faces or stains on their clothes had terrible, neglectful mothers and my own mother did nothing to dispell this bizarre idea. After I had mine, I realized that kids come with this genetic ability to hold dirt inside their bodies and let it seep out of their pores.

 

I am reading this and CHUCKLING   Thanks! 

Ditto! 

rwbeagles

mrstjohnson

That attitude frankly scares me. 

 

Me too...but she does not have kids and well, that changes so many things. Being responsible for an injury to or sickness in, your own child is well...a true true challenge and not one to take lightly. But frankly there's no other way TO take it...until you have it staring you in the face.

I said many many things when I was younger that I would retract now, at age 34. Chelsea your opinions are valid as anyone's here...but at the same time you should be aware that age lends perspective and I hope you can look back on the lines you chose to draw in the sand and understand why some folks found them worthy of an eyebrow raise every now and again.

ETA: Both my kids (and me myself THANKS MOM! )are fully vaccinated...BTW....and if I had 10 more they all would be as well. The risk is simply NOT worth it..period.

As usual well said Gina ;) Chelsea, I think when you get a bunch of reactions to something that you say, instead of looking what is wrong with "us" you should look at how you said things that sparked the reaction. Instead of "no one respects me" or "my opinion doesn't matter", re-read your tone in your first few posts. Insulting my education is unlikely to lighten my mood........There are huge population studies that have shown no association with vaccines and many disorders that are commonly attributed to them. Medicine is full of risks and benefits, nothing is perfect. The benefits of vaccination for the diseases we have chosen to vaccinate for greatly outweigh the risks. When you debate anything in life it is important to know the topic and know the opponent before you start mouthing off.

ottoluv

When you debate anything in life it is important to know the topic and know the opponent before you start mouthing off.

You know what's annoying? When people speak in a "I'm gonna learn ya sumthin'" tone.

Looking back, I don't see one place where I insulted your education. I said doctors aren't god, and I said only a few graduate top of their class. Both of those are true. I wasn't trying to be insulting. I do tend to say things a little more bluntly than maybe is necessary, but...that's kind of just who I am. And you calling people who chose not to vaccinate selfish ruffled my feathers a bit. I don't think anyone has a responsiblity to vaccinate their child for the good of anyone BUT said child.

ottoluv

The benefits of vaccination for the diseases we have chosen to vaccinate for greatly outweigh the risks.

This is your well- and formally-educated opinion, and I respect that. But I think I should be allowed to form my own opinion even though I'm formal-educationless. John Q Public trusts you, I trust me. I really don't see the issue.

I agree with you Chelsea and am also undecided on the whole vaccine thing. I see a naturopath and they have not vaccinated their kids and they were not vaccinated as well. My problem with the vaccines is that we fill them with all kinds of chemicals and extras that I have to question as to why they are being put in there. Of course the medical establishment says we must vaccinate, it's all about making money. Same thing with a new pill for every ailment. Take a pill for this, oh it has a side effect, take a pill to cover the side effect. Doctors are no longer about healing but for popping pills. Through my own health struggles i have found that soooo many doctors so extremely ignorant. No one cares about healing, it's all about band aids for symptoms instead of listening the body. It is because of this that I have a hard time just listening to just anything a doctor says. My gyno tried to tell me that using the FAM method of birth control is crock (you need a pill for that), even though me and several millions of women who follow it religiously, both prevent and gain pregnancy, depending on your desired outcome. I am just supposed to believe the gyno because she said so? I don't think so. There is also the fluoride issue. We drowned our kids with fluoride, when it's really bad for you and is known to cause thyroid problems, among others. Most other developed countries in the world have banned fluoride being added to water. Considering thyroid replacement hormones are the top selling prescriptions in the US, maybe there is a link there. And what proof do we have that vaccines aren't impacting these other diseases that are becoming so prevalent. We as a people seem to have forgotten that we have an immune system. With all our synthetic substitutes (vaccines and rx's) it's no wonder autoimmune diseases are on a rampage. Maybe we should let our bodies do their jobs. I am not saying I am completely against vaccinations, I would probably have some vaccines given to my kids, but I do think some are completely unnecessary. I think there has been spin and propaganda put on certain medical treatments. I think the pharmaceutical and medical industries are 99% based on money and making a profit, so I 99% don't trust them.

Sorry  I just dont believe that doctors dont care or are ignorant.  Yes some  have a narrow focus, some have more interest in the science puzzle than the person.  However, there are plenty of caring physicians out there who work their tails off in their practice and spend great amounts of their leisure time learning.

As to vaccines,  tell me the risks is worth it to the baby in oxygen tank with whooping cough, the kid who had measles and  now has a bilateral hearing loss.  Tell me what happens if polio rears its lethal ugly head.

You have to be a careful consumer of medical services.......Over use of anything will cause problems.  Just what will be do when the bacteria we kill with those hand sanitizers develop strains that are resistant.  Wash your hand with soap and water for 20 seconds instead.

I agree in part that as a society we are waayy overmedicating our children.  For many people, their solution is to give a drug to their child.  When we switch Pediatricians when we moved, the first one I went to was shocked that Riley wasn't on any medication or had taken any medication ever (there is nothing medically wrong with her)!  Besides being vaccinated, the only thing we had given her was the stuff for her gums when she was teething...that's it, nothing else.  For colds we used a humidifier, for a cough an old fashioned recipe and chicken noodle soup, for stuffy nose VICKS vabor rub, etc.  I didn't like the way she started prescibing certain vitamins, etc. and really wouldn't answer my questions about what foods I could give her so she wouldn't have to take suppliments.  So, I switched doctors.

The second doctor I went to was waayy more in line with what my feelings are towards medications and suppliments.  For example, instead of giving your child a suppliment for X, try giving them more X to eat which will increase that nutrient naturally.  I think where concerns come in is when little children are on 3 - 4 medications before they even start school.  This problem is exacerbated by both parents and doctors.  A lot of parents want quick fixes...much easier to give the kid a vitamin instead of making them a well rounded/balanced dinner.  However, they can't get the drug if the doctor's don't write the prescription. 

My MIL is the prime example, she used to be on every single new drug out there...for everything.  She would see the commercial, ask her doctor and boom she's on it.  She had tons and tons of problems.  She finally switched doctors, they took her off 90% of what she was on and guess what, she's better. 

My point is, you have to have discussions with your doctor, you have to be comfortable with what they are telling you.  If you aren't, then leave.  However, IMO perscription drugs are different than vaccines.  Vaccines are designed to protect children and society from known diseases.  Drugs are used to treat symptoms or problems.  I am definitely not saying that I will never give Riley medication, I just think parents need to think before they do.  Don't have them pop a pill to cover something up, treat the symptoms with common sense and if a medication will help then give it...medication should compliment non-medication alternatives not take the place of them.

I agree that Motherhood changes our perspective on everything.  I'm not an over the top protective person, but by golly, I sure am when it comes to my kids.  Even though they are both fully grown, I still worry about the bumbs and bruises.

Correct me if I'm wrong Kelly, but is it not MEASLES, supposedly harmless measles, that can cause serious birth defects if contracted by a pregnant woman??  I remember having the measles as a child, in the bad old days before all the vacinations, and I was a very sick little girl.  And those were the days when the doctors still made house calls.  I vaguely remember something about having to be in a dark room and not allowed to watch TV because any light could damage my eyes.

Mumps?  Can't mumps still cause sterility in men?

Chicken pox...let me tell you about chicken pox and the after effects of that little harmless illness.  I somehow managed to avoid chicken pox until my teens and didn't have a terribly serious case.  However, in my case, the virus has lived on in my system and I am blessed with shingles outbreaks.  I get an odd and specific ache in the sole of my right foot, followed by a sensation all up my right leg that ants are crawling under my skin and usually within a day I have a lovely "patch" of concentrated "chicken pox".  My patch is smallish...never larger than a silver dollar and always in the same spot on my very lower back, right hand side.  But it burns like crazy, it itches worse and in general makes me feel pretty crappy for days.  My little episodes happen when I'm trying to catch a virus.....and heaven knows I'd rather have the virus than the "patch", or when I'm horribly stressed.  Yep, there are medications that can shorten the onset, but they don't prevent it and they only shorten it a little.  And, they are horribly expensive.  Dealing with this hellish "patch" I so feel for the elderly who get numerous patches.  They must be in agoney.  Why do you think a vaccine was created for the elderly against shingles???  You have to be sixty to even get the vaccine, and it does me no good because I can never have it.....I already have latent shingles.

I guess my point here is that so many of the things I've dealt with could have been prevented if I'd been born ten years later and by golly, there is no way I'd have wanted my kids to deal with those things, as little ones, and possibly with after shocks that can last a lifetime.  None of the "childhood" diseases are without risk.  Vaccines of course are not either, but they are, in my mind, a small risk, verus a huge risk.

Edited to add:  In this day and age of managed care and insurance companies guarding their bottom line, a child has to be extremely ill to be hospitalized.  Not just a little sick.  But in a state where death COULD be the result of the illness.

Yeah Lisa.  That's exactly how I feel about antibiotics.  We never took them unless it was for something that would not get better without them (and same for my dogs, it seems anything that happens the vet gives me a round of keflex).  Our pediatrician was very good about not just prescribing something without knowing the cause or it being necessary.  Besides ear infection medicine, I don't ever remember taking pills as a kid.  I've had minor things like colds and the flu, but I've never been in the hospital and have never even had strep throat.  Our neighbor was a total hypochondriac with her kids, she would start them on antibiotics before they went on any sort of vacation "just in case" they might get sick.  Ironically, her kids were the ones that always seemed to be sick, always were crying and had runny noses.  I think she gave them so many antibiotics and kept them so clean, the slightest thing makes them sick.

Why on earth do people believe that they need antibiotics for a VIRAL infection?? Antibiotics don't touch most virus's, so why put that stuff in our bodies if we don't need it and it's not going to help? Some folks seem to think that you MUST take a pill for any and everything that comes down the pike and often do more harm than good. And soap? Good luck finding one that ISN'T antibacterial. There are so very few left. A little dirt isn't such a horrible thing. I have two sons.....one could sit in a mud puddle and stay clean. One seemed to store dirt and exude it through his pores, as Joyce mentioned. Guess who had the constant ear infections? Yep, the "clean" kid. Guess who can avoid most virus's, most illness that rampages through the entire population, or get the mildest possible case and shake it off in a day? The "dirty" one. Germs aren't inherently BAD things. So yeah, I agree that we overmedicate, our kids and ourselves, but, by golly vaccines are not something that falls into that same catagory in my mind.

glenmar

So yeah, I agree that we overmedicate, our kids and ourselves, but, by golly vaccines are not something that falls into that same catagory in my mind.

That sums up my opinion as well...apples and oranges.

Interestingly one of the vaccines lower incidence of ear infections...I forget which. Ear infections in childhood are one of the most common reasons kids GET antibiotics I believe...so my children who had maybe one each and are about growing out of the time when they are common...were saved likely several doses of antibiotic in their systems by said vaccine.

That gets a big AMEN from me, and I don't do church!

Is it a newer vaccine that prevents ear infections?  I had chronic ones as a kid, until I was in 4th grade (was recommended to have tubes in my ears).  Those are the only times I remember being medicated as a child.  Besides that, I think the first time I took an antibiotic was in 10th grade when I got a bacterial infection in my lymph system.  I got the same infection plus periorbital cellulitis in my eyes (which can spread throughout your body if not treated) over Christmas 2006 and had another round of antibiotics.  Even when I had pink eye and was sick for 5 months after returning from Africa I was not treated with any prescriptions (and was seeing the Dr, but it was all viral).

I sure wish that vaccine had been around when my kids were young. Youngest DS had very few ear infections, oldest, many, many ear infections. By the time he was two years old the docs knew, that even if his ears weren't infected TODAY, if Mike said he was getting an ear infection, TOMORROW they would be able to see it. And he's had lifelong problems with ear infections, despite tubes more times than i can count. IF a vaccine could have saved that boy the agoney of those darned ear infections, the minor surgeries, the pain.....well, by golly I'd have been first in line.

Liesje

Is it a newer vaccine that prevents ear infections?  I

 

within the lifetime of Lily Liesje so at least 7 years? It's a "side effect" seems not the INTENT of the vaccine...I forget which one does it tho. It really did help a lot. I mean EVERYONE got ear infections when I was a kid, and it seemed like once you got one you ended up with more!...and mine like I said...maybe one each?

ETA: it's this one... "pneumococcal conjugate vaccine" (PDF)