Nice.....

I'm not saying don't vaccinate your kids. I'm not convinced either way (though I definitely will be by the time I have kids), so I'm NOT a proponant of no vaccines. I'm on the fence, and that's okay. I am however a BIG proponant of THINKING about things, and not doing something because everyone else does, or blindly following your doctor (doctors are a GREAT source of info obviously, and should definitely be part of your decision, I just don't think they're God, especially since only a few graduate top of their class...just sayin';).

ottoluv

Well I'm a big proponent of obtaining an education so you can think about things with the proper tools. Yes, only a few graduate at the top of their class Chelsea, but you need to remember that every person in medical school is a super select group who were the top of their highschool, then top of their college, etc. Do you know the requirements to get into a medical school, graduate from the school, and be licenced are? Not one person who posted said they are God, but they are much more educated then you which is why they trust their doctor and not you.

Yep, what she said...

Even one death per thousand is enough to make it a big deal to me, especially for the sake of keeping EVERYONE healthy.  I've had a ton of vaccinations, having traveled to east Africa, and the biggest complication had was a 12 hour fever with night sweats and hallucinations from the Yellow Fever vaccine.  Imagine if I hadn't had an MMR when I was younger, and contracted and carried measles to Africa, where so few are vaccinated for anything and mortality rates will be more like 10-30% (30% for those immunosupresed which is already a huge issue there).  I don't think we get polio vaccines here but they do have polio in areas there so imagine if I'd not gotten that vaccine, contracted polio, and brought it back here where very few are vaccinated... 

I don't have time to check these sources right now, but...

Unvaccinated populations are at risk for the disease. After vaccination rates dropped in northern Nigeria in the early 2000s due to religious and political objections, the number of cases rose significantly, and hundreds of children died. A 2005 measles outbreak in Indiana was attributed to children whose parents refused vaccination.^[9] In the early 2000s [...] the MMR scare in Britain caused uptake of the vaccine to plunge, and measles cases came back: 2007 saw 971 cases in England and Wales, the biggest rise in occurrence in measles cases since records began in 1995.^[12]

The first outbreak of 2008 came via a 7-year-old boy from San Diego, who traveled to Switzerland with his family. He had not been vaccinated and contracted measles, which he subsequently passed on to schoolmates, infants at his doctor's office and children around him in the hospital. 

So if there are no proven significant risks associated with the vaccine (I don't buy into that autism thing), and NOT vaccinating has already proven several times to be linked with outbreaks and higher occurrences, I don't see why anyone would refuse, for their own safety and that of the public... 

Liesje

Even one death per thousand is enough to make it a big deal to me

I completely agree. The one death means a whole lot when that "one" happens to be your child and I know that I wouldn't want to live with the guilt that I went against coventional medical recommendations and this was the outcome.  Nothing wrong with education and all, but if you've got a pediatrician you trust (and if you don't, you should find one) then why would you argue about something as basic as vaccinations?

chelsea_b

What on Earth are we even talking about here? This thread was originally about MEASLES

I was talking about measles.... if you would have read everything I wrote - you would see that. Before the vaccine illiminated the virus - 450 people died and over 4000 were left with permanent disabilities. You say that getting rid of measles may not have been atributed to the vaccine - but to goot heath and hygine. Well... health and hygine have only improved over the years - and now that people stopped vaccinating, measles are back.

Research the FACTS. And don't believe everything you read.

erica1989

Research the FACTS. And don't believe everything you read.

Well cripes, if I believed everything I read, I'd be totally for vaccines, wouldn't I, since most things written about them are totally pro, and don't-question-it kind of stuff. I question everything. I'm sorry I don't blindly accept things (especially things that doctors say..) like everyone else. I've said several times in this thread alone that I am NOT NOT NOT!!! anti-vaccine. That would be ridiculous. I am pro-thinking things through. I haven't said ONCE that my kids won't be vaccinated. I did say I won't vaccinate for chicken pox, but that's the only one I'm sure about yet. Why? Because every person I know had chicken pox as a child with no ill effects, and TWO young family members were vax'd against it, and BOTH have permanent skin conditions that their own doctors admit are most likely from the vaccine. That's just not worth it to me. I'm sure I was miserable for a couple weeks when I had it, and I have a scar above my eye from it. I'm okay with putting my kids through that, honestly.

And really, my point is there ARE doctors who say vaccines can be harmful. They went through 8+ years of school just like Kelly did (and yeah, I know how selective medical schools are..that top of the class thing was my attempt at lightening the mood. I'm sooo good at that, aren't I? lol). So why are they automatically wrong and other doctors right? Prove to me that vaccines are not at all harmful. Not just that there's no perfectly run studies saying they're harmful..I know that already. But you can't PROVE that they're NOT harmful. And because of that, I will continue to question them...and that's my right. Telling me I'm uneducated, ignorant, believe everything I read, need to read facts..when all I'm doing is questioning it...is really scary. No thoughts aloud that aren't the norm! *puke*

I think I'll do what I do with my dogs, with any children i have: give vaccines on a limited protocol (core vs. non-core), spaced out from each other vs. major combo shots, only when the being is completely healthy, and discuss with the medical professional involved the risks, benefits, and considerations related to the whole vaccine issue.

If I value my dogs' lives this much, I figure any kids should have the same considerations.  

For myself, I've been vaccinated for diseases I feel are more likely for me to get and have serious problems with: tetanus, HPV, etc.  I'm currently considering rabies vaccination on the recommendation of a doctor, but I won't jump into that w/o more info and proof I'm completely healthy (minor health issues right now) - just what I'd do for one of my dogs.  

stardog85

If I value my dogs' lives this much, I figure any kids should have the same considerations.

See, and that's what I don't get here. People flip out if you question vaccines for kids..but questioning them for dogs is old news and perfectly fine. I wouldn't feel any more bad about my kid getting measles if I didn't vaccinate them than I would about my dog getting, let's say lepto, if I didn't vaccinate.

 Yeah but we vax our pets EVERY YEAR!  It's the yearly boosters most people question, not the puppy vax.  We don't vax our kids every year and if we did I am sure there would be the same controversy.

chelsea_b

But you can't PROVE that they're NOT harmful.

How about the BILLIONS of people each year that are perfectly healthy that receive vaccines.  BILLIONS - including me, my entire family, my DH his entire family, every child I have ever gone to school with, etc. etc. etc. etc.  Do you really think 99.9% of the medical community would allow BILLIONS of people to be vaccinated if it was harmful?  Do you really think that little of the medical community.  And yes, you will always be able to find doctors that don't agree...that's with everything. 

I think what I am shaking my head at is your flippant attitude and comment that if you child became sick, injured, etc. (by the way - they could die too) because you didn't vaccinate you wouldn't be too upset. 

chelsea_b

 And no, if my invaccinated kid came down with something a vaccine could have possibly prevented, I wouldn't be crushed or hate myself, because I know there's that risk, and if I decide not to vax, I'll be okay with that risk.

That attitude frankly scares me.  If my daughter falls down and skins her knee I feel awful wishing I could have done something to prevent it - knowing that I can't prevent every dump and bruise.  However, if my daughter contracted a disease and was permenantly damaged because I chose not to vaccinate her, I don't know if I could live with myself.  But, I am looking at it from a mother's perspective so I think differently.

mrstjohnson

 

I think what I am shaking my head at is your flippant attitude and comment that if you child became sick, injured, etc. (by the way - they could die too) because you didn't vaccinate you wouldn't be too upset.

That attitude frankly scares me.  If my daughter falls down and skins her knee I feel awful wishing I could have done something to prevent it - knowing that I can't prevent every dump and bruise.  However, if my daughter contracted a disease and was permenantly damaged because I chose not to vaccinate her, I don't know if I could live with myself.  But, I am looking at it from a mother's perspective so I think differently.

And how would you have felt if your daughter had developed problems that may have been associated with a vaccine??

My son did.  Thankfully the problems were relatively minor.  I'm not stupid enough to believe that vaccines were absolutely the cause, but neither am I stupid enough to believe that they couldn't have played some roll.  It's why I would re-think vaccinations extremely carefully if I had another child, and why at the very least I would spread them out.

mrstjohnson

That attitude frankly scares me. 

Me too...but she does not have kids and well, that changes so many things. Being responsible for an injury to or sickness in, your own child is well...a true true challenge and not one to take lightly. But frankly there's no other way TO take it...until you have it staring you in the face.

I said many many things when I was younger that I would retract now, at age 34. Chelsea your opinions are valid as anyone's here...but at the same time you should be aware that age lends perspective and I hope you can look back on the lines you chose to draw in the sand and understand why some folks found them worthy of an eyebrow raise every now and again.

ETA: Both my kids (and me myself THANKS MOM! )are fully vaccinated...BTW....and if I had 10 more they all would be as well. The risk is simply NOT worth it..period.

Myra

And how would you have felt if your daughter had developed problems that may have been associated with a vaccine??

To be quite honest Myra I'd, personally in that respect be looking into my family tree first. I know what is there on half no idea on the other. Being in dogs has taught me this...many things...including a weak immune system or tendency to be unsound in many ways...are genetic in origin...and not always in a nice neat mom dad way, either.

Again...just my own thoughts on your what if...and not directed at your what IS.

Myra

And how would you have felt if your daughter had developed problems that may have been associated with a vaccine??

I would feel horrible and devastated too.  No matter what you do there are always risks and you can never be 100% right - just do your best and make educated decisions.  Looking at the odds and the medical histories in our family the benefits of vaccinating GREATLY outweighed the risk of not vaccinating.  I think your approach is very good and sound by stretching out the vaccines - that makes sense for you and your family. 

rwbeagles

Chelsea your opinions are valid as anyone's here...

You say this, but it's not true to most people in this thread. My opinions don't count because I don't have kids, or because I'm younger. And I think what everyone is choosing to ignore is that I have not ONCE said I'm against vaccines in general. I have not ONCE said I won't vaccinate my future children. All I've said is that I will think about it and weigh the benefits and risks. That seems to scare people, and I honestly have no clue why.

Straying from the norm is scary. What if, what if...but what if I do what's normal, and THAT is where the harm is? Who's to say that all these illnesses, immune problems, and mental problems DON'T have SOMETHING to do with vaccines and everything else that's "the norm" now? I'm not saying vaccines cause autism, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. I also don't think it's ridiculous to wonder if the surges in cancer and whatnot aren't somehow related to the surge in vaccination. Not CAUSED BY, but related to. The normal thing to do is vaccinate..and the normal things to die from are cancer and heart disease. And a normal sight in schools is a huge number of kids with ADD, ADHD, and learning disabilities. And another normal thing is the huge number of people on the autism spectrum. This is all common and normal now. Just like vaccines. I just don't see the problem in questioning it.

I also don't feel the need to protect kids from every cut, scrape, bruise, fever, or sniffle (and without drugging them to a stupor). I think this is all a part of life and the sooner they learn to deal with it, the better. If that makes me a bad person, or somehow uncaring..so be it.