Recieved a WARNING Bark from a GSD.

ron2

But in all cases, one should not challenge a strange dog on his own property. I was taught that as a child and have a habit of assuming that others were raised that way, which is an error on my part.

Actually, the only reason I even thought of this alternative afterwards was because of the fact I watch "The Dog Whisperer." I'm pretty sure he has challenged dogs on their own property. Someone might want to clarify that. Unless it doesn't count if he is standing in the street.

 I would have never tried it though unless I knew for certain how to do it. I never did enough research on the topic either. And that is why I asked it out of curiosity here. I bet you there is a traditonal trainer out there that would have. And that is what I was looking for. Another perspective. I should be able to ask these questions without such assumptions being made.

It has nothing to do with how I was "raised." If that were the case, then I would have done something similar to what I already did. Except I may have been filled with fright instead of calmness!

ShelterDogs

 I would have never tried it though unless I knew for certain how to do it. I never did enough research on the topic either. And that is why I asked it out of curiosity here. I bet you there is a traditonal trainer out there that would have. And that is what I was looking for. Another perspective. I should be able to ask these questions without such assumptions being made.

I don't know if a "traditional trainer" might have tried to do something else or not, and I don't know if I agree with whatever this hypothetical traditional trainer might have hypothetically chosen to do. But the operative word here is "train", I think. What exactly do you think you would have attempted to "train" this dog to do, or not do? Not bark at a stranger intruding on his territory in the dark? Why would you want to attempt to do that, and what makes you think you would have any right or reason to attempt to train a total stranger's dog not to bark at intruders and then back away when the intruder left? Yes, the dog probably frightened you. You also alarmed the dog. Both the dog and you responded appropriately - the dog gave a warning, and when you heeded the warning the dog backed down. So, let's recap here: you saw a small dog in danger, and responded in such a way that you protected the small dog. Another dog, reasonably enough, felt you were intruding on his property and gave a warning bark. You recognized the warning and responded in such a way as to let the dog know you were not a threat. The dog then backed away. And now you want to know what you might have done instead? What exactly do you think needs to be improved upon here?

ShelterDogs

Actually, the only reason I even thought of this alternative afterwards was because of the fact I watch "The Dog Whisperer." I'm pretty sure he has challenged dogs on their own property.

There are quite a few of us on this forum that think this guy has a few screws loose.  He has a lot of skill with dogs, but he encourages people to try things that they don't have the skill or experience to attempt without getting hurt.

As far as challenging guard dogs on their own property, I don't recommend it.  There is a reason that they call them "guard" dogs. 

buster the show dog

I don't know if a "traditional trainer" might have tried to do something else or not, and I don't know if I agree with whatever this hypothetical traditional trainer might have hypothetically chosen to do. But the operative word here is "train", I think. What exactly do you think you would have attempted to "train" this dog to do, or not do? Not bark at a stranger intruding on his territory in the dark? Why would you want to attempt to do that, and what makes you think you would have any right or reason to attempt to train a total stranger's dog not to bark at intruders and then back away when the intruder left? Yes, the dog probably frightened you. You also alarmed the dog. Both the dog and you responded appropriately - the dog gave a warning, and when you heeded the warning the dog backed down. So, let's recap here: you saw a small dog in danger, and responded in such a way that you protected the small dog. Another dog, reasonably enough, felt you were intruding on his property and gave a warning bark. You recognized the warning and responded in such a way as to let the dog know you were not a threat. The dog then backed away. And now you want to know what you might have done instead? What exactly do you think needs to be improved upon here?

If you don't know, then why reply? How many times do I have to reiterate this? You are obviously not a traditional trainer, so why reply to something I have already explained and have me explain again? I'm simply curious is all. I don't think anything needs to have been improved on that I did. I took my previous experience and did almost everything right. Except I didn't walk away sideways like spiritdogs mentioned.

So once more, I am telling you that I am seeking knowledge. I want to see a point of view from someone who would have done this, and their reason why. Is that such a bad question to ask? I'm been fully aware that many of you don't like Cesar Millan's philsophies. I've been a member here since 2006. Millan is not the only traditional trainer that exists.  

ShelterDogs

So once more, I am telling you that I am seeking knowledge. I want to see a point of view from someone who would have done this, and their reason why. Is that such a bad question to ask?

It's not a bad question to ask, for curiosity's sake, but I think the answer is that you will not find anybody on this forum who would challenge a dog guarding its own property.  I wouldn't even challenge a dog on neutral territory, though if it were a matter of me getting out alive from a confrontation with a dog I couldn't reason with I might thwack it with a tree branch or something. 

From the perspective of someone (me) who will be getting a dog who's guarding instincts extend to fighting a wolf to the death to protect a sheep, I would never EVER challenge a dog on its own property for the very simple reason that I'd never know what response I might get.  When said dog is an adult, and living in my house, it would give any intruder the biggest of chances to get away but if it needed to physically defend me, that intruder would be in an awful lot of trouble,  And sorry, but while you did the right thing to get away, you were an intruder on that dog's property.  

Put yourself, for a second, in that guy's position.  If someone were on your property and your dog (I forget what breed/breeds you said you have, if you did, lets assume it's something big for the sake of argument) was actively defending you and your property, would you want the intruder to challenge your dog?  To take that challenge to whatever conclusion might be necessary?  After all, your dog wouldn't know that person's intentions, it would be up to you to direct it, to say that the person on the property was OK.  But what if you didn't know it was OK? 

Not to be sexist here, but what if you were a single woman living alone and a man started to enter your property?  In that circumstance, would you give any credence at all to the idea that said man challenging your dog, and getting it to back down/be submissive to him, would be a good idea?

ETA:  If your answer to the final question is "yes", I think you might be alone on that in terms of the membership of this forum.  If the answer is no...then it illustrates my point that it would really never be an OK thing to do.

janet_rose

There are quite a few of us on this forum that think this guy has a few screws loose.  He has a lot of skill with dogs, but he encourages people to try things that they don't have the skill or experience to attempt without getting hurt.

As far as challenging guard dogs on their own property, I don't recommend it.  There is a reason that they call them "guard" dogs.

Well if you ever have watched the show, you would know that there are several warnings throughout that recommend viewers to contact a professional before attempting any kind of training.

It is a reality show. Cesar Millan is not there to teach or encourage us as observers what to do. He is teaching his clients who specifically contact him on what to do. We are the observers. Just as any reality show, we observe. If people want to emulate, then that is their choice. But they are responsible for any consequences, not the producers or the people in the show.  

And what makes you think this GSD was a "guard dog"? After speaking to the owner the other night I know that she is not a guard dog. He was being territorial.  

ShelterDogs

Actually, the only reason I even thought of this alternative afterwards was because of the fact I watch "The Dog Whisperer." I'm pretty sure he has challenged dogs on their own property. Someone might want to clarify that. Unless it doesn't count if he is standing in the street.

At least you admitted that. Your going to find that not everyone is an adoring fan of that t.v. show. You're going to find a number of dog experts with creds and experience would not recommend that which you see on his show. Even he doesn't recommend it, as he as a disclaimer (do not try this at home, consult a trainer or behaviorist in your area) and those people will tell you not to challenge a strange dog on his own property.

And people will keep telling you about guardian breeds in the hopes that you will understand that the dog was doing his job, you were the intruder, that you did the right thing by walking away. In my opinion, playing "Dog Whisperer" would be the wrong thing to do. I bet if you wrote CM, he would tell you the same thing.

By the way, the show is edited. You see exactly what the producers want you to see.

Benedict

And sorry, but while you did the right thing to get away, you were an intruder on that dog's property.  

Put yourself, for a second, in that guy's position.  If someone were on your property and your dog (I forget what breed/breeds you said you have, if you did, lets assume it's something big for the sake of argument) was actively defending you and your property, would you want the intruder to challenge your dog?  To take that challenge to whatever conclusion might be necessary?  After all, your dog wouldn't know that person's intentions, it would be up to you to direct it, to say that the person on the property was OK.  But what if you didn't know it was OK? 

Not to be sexist here, but what if you were a single woman living alone and a man started to enter your property?  In that circumstance, would you give any credence at all to the idea that said man challenging your dog, and getting it to back down/be submissive to him, would be a good idea?

ETA:  If your answer to the final question is "yes", I think you might be alone on that in terms of the membership of this forum.  If the answer is no...then it illustrates my point that it would really never be an OK thing to do.

No. I guess the better question would have been to ask everyone what they would have done if they were NOT one foot into the driveway. Let's say they were a foot away from the driveway, in the street and walking along. Let's say the small dog never came out in the road, and that the GSD gave his warning without me stepping a foot into the driveway. It doesn't matter though, because I don't think I am going to find a different perspective as you say I probably won't. And you don't have to apologize to me. I have already stated several times that I understand the GSDs actions were perfectly normal in this circumstance. 

ron2

At least you admitted that. Your going to find that not everyone is an adoring fan of that t.v. show. You're going to find a number of dog experts with creds and experience would not recommend that which you see on his show. Even he doesn't recommend it, as he as a disclaimer (do not try this at home, consult a trainer or behaviorist in your area) and those people will tell you not to challenge a strange dog on his own property.

And people will keep telling you about guardian breeds in the hopes that you will understand that the dog was doing his job, you were the intruder, that you did the right thing by walking away. In my opinion, playing "Dog Whisperer" would be the wrong thing to do. I bet if you wrote CM, he would tell you the same thing.

By the way, the show is edited. You see exactly what the producers want you to see.

I know the show is edited. Every single TV show that has ever existed is edited. But that doesn't mean we should all become conspiracy theorists and believe that everything that we don't see on the show is bad either. I am sure we would hear about it in the news when bad things do happen. We certainly did when a TV producer's dog collapsed on a treadmill at Millan's center. I know this wasn't being filmed or anything, and Cesar wasn't even present when this happend, but it does go to show... that we would most likely hear about it if any client made a claim.

Also, this really isn't about Cesar... just traditional trainers way of thinking in general.  

ShelterDogs

And what makes you think this GSD was a "guard dog"? After speaking to the owner the other night I know that she is not a guard dog. He was being territorial.  

I had to laugh and I'm sorry. My dog is not a "guard dog" but he is very territorial. You can walk down the city sidewalk in front of my home and he will watch you go by, take a small step wrong and hit the grass or driveway and he is going to let you know your in his yard and you do not belong there! And it isn't going to be some little wimpy barks either, they are going to be serious deep chested barks, ignore them at your own peril.

A GSD and other dogs for that matter, do not have to be trained to have guarding instincts, alot of dogs come by it naturally through breeding and love of their owners. The owner and you may not consider he/she a certified guard dog, but I would bet the dog sure does.

Actually, the only reason I even thought of this alternative afterwards was because of the fact I watch "The Dog Whisperer." I'm pretty sure he has challenged dogs on their own property. Someone might want to clarify that. Unless it doesn't count if he is standing in the street.

another fine example of how everything you see on that show should be taken as "what NOT to do with real dogs in real life".

ShelterDogs

I guess the better question would have been to ask everyone what they would have done if they were NOT one foot into the driveway. Let's say they were a foot away from the driveway, in the street and walking along. Let's say the small dog never came out in the road, and that the GSD gave his warning without me stepping a foot into the driveway.

Its gonna happen.  Dogs will simply bark, period.  If it were me, I would ignore the dog and keep on going.  I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what perspective you are looking for.  Using your hypothetical scenario, no one should challenge the dog, what would be the point? 

ShelterDogs

janet_rose

There are quite a few of us on this forum that think this guy has a few screws loose.  He has a lot of skill with dogs, but he encourages people to try things that they don't have the skill or experience to attempt without getting hurt.

As far as challenging guard dogs on their own property, I don't recommend it.  There is a reason that they call them "guard" dogs.

Well if you ever have watched the show, you would know that there are several warnings throughout that recommend viewers to contact a professional before attempting any kind of training.

It is a reality show. Cesar Millan is not there to teach or encourage us as observers what to do. He is teaching his clients who specifically contact him on what to do. We are the observers. Just as any reality show, we observe. If people want to emulate, then that is their choice. But they are responsible for any consequences, not the producers or the people in the show.  

And what makes you think this GSD was a "guard dog"? After speaking to the owner the other night I know that she is not a guard dog. He was being territorial.  

Well there ya go....you said it yourself. Any techniques on the show should not be attempted without the help of a proffessional. And DEFINITELY NOT on a unknown dog whom you have never met and without the consent of the owner you had never met. If this dog would have bit you on his property I cant say he would be to blame. Regardless of your good intentions you were trespassing as the law would see it.

I'm not trying to argue that what you did was incorrect, I would have done the same thing if I saw a dog in the road. However I'm a bit baffeled as to why your upset that your not getting the answers from us you wanted t o hear? No need to be defensive just because we arnt neighborhood vigilantes who judges dogs and neighbors based on how much their dogs bark. We are here to be supportive to you and but not everyone agree's with CM's tactics.

Hardly anyone on here would consider CM a "proffessional trainer" but thats a matter of opinion I guess. If you search you'll find there has been many discussions regarding CM.

AuroraLove

Hardly anyone on here would consider CM a "proffessional trainer" but thats a matter of opinion I guess.

He himself does not call himself a trainer - rather a "dog behavior specialist".  But this isn't about Cesar other than the OP's presumption that CM is an example of a "traditional trainer". 

My old "traditional trainer", who breeds GSDs by the way, would also say that challenging the dog in this situation to be a very poor decision.  Does that finally answer the question?