Recieved a WARNING Bark from a GSD.

I would've knelt down and called the little dog to me to get it out of the road but I would've done the same thing you did about the shepherd. I too would be VERY VERY frustrated at that owner!!!!

 I was in a situation once where I was walking Brownie and a lady was sitting in her front yard with her Chow Chow off leash. As I was walkign by it got up, walked to the edge of the sidewalk and would'nt let me keep going. I told the lady to get her dog and she sighed, annoyed, and got him and put him back by her chair. She was watching the whole thing and wouldn't even help me!!!!!!! WOW!!!

Also I was walking Brownie one time and this black lab mix just comes barreling out of a garage and starts biting Brownie. The owner was working on his car and I had to break the two up myself. Then the owner comes running out apoligizing!!!!???? Don't have your dog off leash if hes dangerous I told him then just walked away disgusted. Brownie was ok of course.

I also agree that the GSD did the right thing.

ShelterDogs

But would an alerting dog already be making their move on the stranger? Wouldn't an alerting dog be calling out for their pack leader to meet them at wherever they are because they hear something?

No he wasn't making a move he was just alerting and checking you out at the same time.

AuroraLove

Sorry if some of our responses put you on the defense but there are many responsible owner of GSD's and Pit Bulls here on the forum (myself included) and sometimes its hard to comminicate via the internet and a lot of things can be taken out of context.

I still stand by the fact that if you fear a dog, regardless of its breed to speak to the owner and not make assumptions. What if the owner assumed you were a busy-body who should have minded their own business because his small dog knows what a street adn car is......that'd really stink because you had the best of intentions. Assumptions can go both ways and an only be resolved by communication.

We were all supportive in the fact that you did the right thing. I think some of us were put off by your wording and for that I apologize for the miscommunication.

I don't fear German Shepherds. I fear irresponsible dog owners. As I already stated 2x before, I made the connection because I read this person as possibly an irresponsible dog owner. It was just a thought. You guys were being defensive first. You took it personally. When I never personally attacked GSD owners! I simply made a connection and thought of the possibility. I didn't state it as fact. If I did that, I would have been very ignorant. Also, as I stated, the article was fresh in my mind.  

Also, it seems many of the dog owners in this neighborhood are irresponsible in some way. I can't tell you how many dogs never go out for a walk around here. At least half of the dogs in this neighborhood don't appear to ever be taken for regular walks. Not just from noticing myself, but also from talking to fellow neighbors who DO walk their dogs. No, we don't snicker. But we are concerned about some of the dogs' well being. And those dogs that we suspect don't get walked, are always the ones that bark continuously at you as you walk past their house. Sometimes to the extreme... where the barking doesn't stop. I tried to help one neighbor who asked me for advice, but I don't think she plans on carrying out the training.

Eventually you should see the dog being walked if they are in fact being taken for regular walks. I have seen the owners of these dogs out for a walk, but without their dog. But the fact some these dogs appear to have barking problems, it's very likely they aren't being walked. The dog next door barks at any kind of movement. Whether we're on our sundeck, gardening, etc. This dog is put out in the fenced in backyard. The owner obviously thinks this is great entertainment for the dog.

He could have been alerting. You are right. But would an alerting dog already be making their move on the stranger? Wouldn't an alerting dog be calling out for their pack leader to meet them at wherever they are because they hear something? In this case, the dog had already left the pack leader.

Guard-type dogs have been selectively bred for thousands of years to bark at and chase off intruders themselves while the humans happily stay indoors and pay no attention.

AuroraLove

We were all supportive in the fact that you did the right thing. I think some of us were put off by your wording and for that I apologize for the miscommunication.

I agree with AL here.  And, yeah its true...I can't help but take some things as slightly personal when someone dawgs my dog of choice even in general.  But, I hear ya when you say that recent events just were on the forefront of your mind.  And, yes...there are way too many irresponsible dog owners out there.  We are the minority.  You, me and the folks on this board and others.  We all have run ins with ignorant (and I mean clueless) dog owners.

And another thing...we all come hear to vent, rant and sometimes just journal, so whatever you say and however we may respond to a certain statement should really be taken with a grain of salt.  Venting goes so many ways around. 

mudpuppy

He could have been alerting. You are right. But would an alerting dog already be making their move on the stranger? Wouldn't an alerting dog be calling out for their pack leader to meet them at wherever they are because they hear something? In this case, the dog had already left the pack leader.

Guard-type dogs have been selectively bred for thousands of years to bark at and chase off intruders themselves while the humans happily stay indoors and pay no attention.

GSD breed is less than 200 years old and hasn't really been selectively bred to be left outdoors alone guarding property (though too many people try to use them for such). 

Why the dog barked - who knows.  It totally depends on the temperament of the dog, the training, its level of confidence, whether it's fearful...Maybe it was alerting, maybe it was scared, maybe it's really aggressive....who knows. 

doesn't sound like the GSD did anything inappropriate and you handled it fine.  As others mentioned, the idea to challenge him on his own property in the dark wouldn't make sense to anyone - doubtful any "dominance trainer" would say so, either.

Is it possible the dogs had invisible fencing?  Long shot if the little one was technically in the road, but maybe the GSD had a collar on... and who knows if the little one even belonged to that house?  Maybe he wandered over from some other yard.  Plenty of variables to question and analyze, but not worth fussing over I don't think.  Unless you're worried for the future safety of that little dog who got into the road, or your own dog in the future.  Then you know that all the speculating about your neighbors and their dogs mean nothing.  A friendly open chat with them might answer your curiosity questions or genuine safety concerns.

ShelterDogs

AuroraLove

Sorry if some of our responses put you on the defense but there are many responsible owner of GSD's and Pit Bulls here on the forum (myself included) and sometimes its hard to comminicate via the internet and a lot of things can be taken out of context.

I still stand by the fact that if you fear a dog, regardless of its breed to speak to the owner and not make assumptions. What if the owner assumed you were a busy-body who should have minded their own business because his small dog knows what a street adn car is......that'd really stink because you had the best of intentions. Assumptions can go both ways and an only be resolved by communication.

We were all supportive in the fact that you did the right thing. I think some of us were put off by your wording and for that I apologize for the miscommunication.

I don't fear German Shepherds. I fear irresponsible dog owners. As I already stated 2x before, I made the connection because I read this person as possibly an irresponsible dog owner. It was just a thought. You guys were being defensive first. You took it personally. When I never personally attacked GSD owners! I simply made a connection and thought of the possibility. I didn't state it as fact. If I did that, I would have been very ignorant. Also, as I stated, the article was fresh in my mind.  

Also, it seems many of the dog owners in this neighborhood are irresponsible in some way. I can't tell you how many dogs never go out for a walk around here. At least half of the dogs in this neighborhood don't appear to ever be taken for regular walks. Not just from noticing myself, but also from talking to fellow neighbors who DO walk their dogs. No, we don't snicker. But we are concerned about some of the dogs' well being. And those dogs that we suspect don't get walked, are always the ones that bark continuously at you as you walk past their house. Sometimes to the extreme... where the barking doesn't stop. I tried to help one neighbor who asked me for advice, but I don't think she plans on carrying out the training.

Eventually you should see the dog being walked if they are in fact being taken for regular walks. I have seen the owners of these dogs out for a walk, but without their dog. But the fact some these dogs appear to have barking problems, it's very likely they aren't being walked. The dog next door barks at any kind of movement. Whether we're on our sundeck, gardening, etc. This dog is put out in the fenced in backyard. The owner obviously thinks this is great entertainment for the dog.

I rarely walk my dogs in my neighborhood.  Jack is usually taken for a hike in the woods or a swim, and if Sally doesn't go with him we rarely walk her on our street.... 

Guard-type dogs have been selectively bred for thousands of years to bark at and chase off intruders themselves while the humans happily stay indoors and pay no attention.

 

 

 

GSD breed is less than 200 years old and hasn't really been selectively bred to be left outdoors alone guarding property (though too many people try to use them for such). 

breed per se didn't exist but shepherd-type flock tenders/guardians that were the ancesters of GSD have been around forever. I just find these bizarre comments about the role of "pack leaders" so well, so bizarre- do people not observe real dogs behaving? Of course dogs bark and then run towards the intruder, leaving the slowpoke human so-called "pack leader" behind. Go out in any neighbor and you will observe this behavior.

glenmar

 

I think that it is peoples tendency naturally to defend the breed that they love and to further try to educate people about that breed.  I know that's all I meant when I said this dog was behaving normally, the way he was supposed to behave.

True that.  If you take a TT (ATTS temperament test) with a GSD and the dog does nothing to alert or indicate during the "threat" test, the dog fails.  I did the test with Kenya last month.  Each item is scored 1-10, 10 being the best but all you need is a number on the board to pass so a 1 passes.  During the "threat" test, a stranger moves closer and closer to the dog, begins shouting at the dog and banging the ground with a stick.  Each breed is scored based on their own standard, so a GSD showing any fear at this stage fails.  Kenya got a score of 1 because she stood there and when the man started yelling and her and waiving the stick, her ears came up and she locked her gaze on him.  The appropriate/desired response from a GSD would have been stepping forward (not lunging at the line aggressively, but remaining under control) and giving alert barks.  The object of that test is to see whether the dog recognizes a threat.  Kenya got the 1 because she did, but not in the capacity that the GSD should.  I am not upset over the score and neither was the tester because Kenya is a therapy dog (he knows this) and is trained NOT to react to people doing weird movements and shouting because for us those are NOT threats even though to a GSD, that is inherently a threatening behavior.  The other dogs (Rottweilers) all did as desired - when the stranger approached they perked up, when he started shouting the dog stood his ground, and when he started beating the stick at the dog, the dog barked back at him.

ShelterDogs

AuroraLove

Sorry if some of our responses put you on the defense but there are many responsible owner of GSD's and Pit Bulls here on the forum (myself included) and sometimes its hard to communicate via the internet and a lot of things can be taken out of context.

I still stand by the fact that if you fear a dog, regardless of its breed to speak to the owner and not make assumptions. What if the owner assumed you were a busy-body who should have minded their own business because his small dog knows what a street adn car is......that'd really stink because you had the best of intentions. Assumptions can go both ways and an only be resolved by communication.

We were all supportive in the fact that you did the right thing. I think some of us were put off by your wording and for that I apologize for the miscommunication.

I don't fear German Shepherds. I fear irresponsible dog owners. As I already stated 2x before, I made the connection because I read this person as possibly an irresponsible dog owner. It was just a thought. You guys were being defensive first. You took it personally. When I never personally attacked GSD owners! I simply made a connection and thought of the possibility. I didn't state it as fact. If I did that, I would have been very ignorant. Also, as I stated, the article was fresh in my mind. 

Also, it seems many of the dog owners in this neighborhood are irresponsible in some way. I can't tell you how many dogs never go out for a walk around here. At least half of the dogs in this neighborhood don't appear to ever be taken for regular walks. Not just from noticing myself, but also from talking to fellow neighbors who DO walk their dogs. No, we don't snicker. But we are concerned about some of the dogs' well being. And those dogs that we suspect don't get walked, are always the ones that bark continuously at you as you walk past their house. Sometimes to the extreme... where the barking doesn't stop. I tried to help one neighbor who asked me for advice, but I don't think she plans on carrying out the training.

Eventually you should see the dog being walked if they are in fact being taken for regular walks. I have seen the owners of these dogs out for a walk, but without their dog. But the fact some these dogs appear to have barking problems, it's very likely they aren't being walked. The dog next door barks at any kind of movement. Whether we're on our sundeck, gardening, etc. This dog is put out in the fenced in backyard. The owner obviously thinks this is great entertainment for the dog.

I would like to point out the title of this thread....Recieved a WARNING Bark from a GSD.  You kind of put yourself out there for defensive remarks. You made this about the dog and the breed over anything else with that subject line.

I was really confused as to what you were seeking in your first post. Your first one was about the dog barking and approaching you and saving the little one. I think you did do great with both situations. And now I'm totally confused. You went from 1 barking dog and it actions,  to making assumptions about your whole neighborhood and your views on why their dogs bark?

You say your concerned about some of the dogs and their well being? because they bark to much in your way of thinking? do they look unhappy, mistreated, neglected? And outside of those questions, and maybe the most important, have you introduced yourself to their owners? Do you know these people? their families? how their lives are constructed? How do you know the dogs are not walked? Are you home all day and make it a priority to watch to see who is and who isn't walking their dogs?

Personally I think it rather arrogant to base the quality of care, love and well being of a dog, by it's owner, on whether or not the dog is walked enough by you or your fellow dog walker standards.

Maybe, like me, some of them walk their dogs in the very early morning hours when the rest of the world is asleep, things are calm, there is no hurry, we can take our time and enjoy the peace. We have started our walks as early as 5:30am and as late as 11pm. And I only walk him on Saturday and Sunday, because he can get plenty of exercise in our own back yard. And he is a barker, barks at my neighbors friends when they come over, both sides of the fence. Barks if some strange car pulls into the drive, knocks on the door, ect. It is his job. He barks, I take a look, tell him it's ok and back to living life as we know it.

Ok, so my question is, what is this thread really about?

Truley

You say your concerned about some of the dogs and their well being? because they bark to much in your way of thinking? do they look unhappy, mistreated, neglected?

I made this assumption when I first moved into my current home. The neighbors across the street have two beautiful Malinois whom bark NON-STOP. I mean they literally never shut up. My first assumption was they dont get enough stimulation but after a week I noticed the owner walks both in the early a.m. and then bikes with them one at a time in the evening. They are very well behaved as well, get along with cats and most dogs from what I've seen. One is hardly ever on a leash which spooked me out at first because I didnt want it approaching Rory on our walk but he stays firmly in line and could care less about dogs walking by......UNLESS he is in his yard, its quite odd.

Anyhoo even if the owner is sitting in her front yard reading or gardening she never makes a point to shush her dogs. I dont get it but am thankful my dogs don't respond. I've thought about complaining but once I made a mindset to ignore it I actually tune it out failry well.......with some excpetions of course, LOL

Sorry if I came off heavy handed.

I will concede to your judgement that it was a warning bark and the dog was still doing his job. I will concede that the owner of the loose dog you were trying to save was possibly irresponsible. And you did the right thing by not challenging and simply walking away, calmly.

But the pack leader thingy brings thoughts to mind that would lead to a whole 'nother thread that has been repeated ad infinitum.

Anyway, you acted rightly. The reason others respond to you about what they know of GSDs, and their knowledge makes mine insignificant, is to give you an understanding about the behavior of GSDs, from a variety of backgrounds including the pack leader thingy and other viewpoints. But in all cases, one should not challenge a strange dog on his own property. I was taught that as a child and have a habit of assuming that others were raised that way, which is an error on my part.

Yeah I really think the OP did the right thing, helped the little dog and left the GSD alone.  I guess I found the question about whether to stare the dog down and challenge him a bit strange, but I'm glad everything turned out OK for all dogs and humans involved.  Personally I'd never challenge even a Shih Tzu if the dog is only alert barking and well within reason (dark, stranger approaching, stranger attempting to engage with one of the other "pack" members, dog in its own yard, and dog stays in its own yard).  You don't need to be a pack leader to anyone's dogs but your own even if you disagree with how the dogs are trained and treated.  Now if the dog came barreling out and was lunging at people and dogs, THEN I'd have a much different opinion!  I would say have a word with the owner and call Animal Control.  I love GSDs but I've also been bit in the face by one so I'm no stranger to how dangerous they can be when poorly bred, improperly trained, and/or unsocialized.