Recieved a WARNING Bark from a GSD.

I would likely have moved off without making eye contact.  Irresponsible of the owner to have his dog off leash, yes, (allowing the smaller dog to leave the property and potentially be hit by a cat) but the larger dog didn't leave the property and you were ON the property. Not with ill intentions, no, and with my own dogs, it's not their job to bark at someone who wanders up with me with them. I would, however, much rather a dog bark a warning than moving on to a bite when it is protecting its property in its eyes.

I wouldn't expect a dog to know my intentions in going on its property, nor would I feel it my job to "challenge" someone else's dog.  My expectations for my own dogs are not those of others to their own dogs, and there are some people who want their dogs to bark at strangers (although I'd hope they'd leash them)

grab01

I would likely have moved off without making eye contact.

With or without potentially saving the small dog's life first? Or doing the same thing that I did? Because that is basically what I did. No eye contact, and walked away.  

grab01

Irresponsible of the owner to have his dog off leash, yes, (allowing the smaller dog to leave the property and potentially be hit by a car) but the larger dog didn't leave the property and you were ON the property.

I walked over the very edge of the driveway. Just enough to get the small dog out of the road. Do also keep in mind this was very dark out and I could not see the GSD until he approached. If he had heard me you don't know if he would have come out into the road. He may have been concentrated on the owner or couldn't hear becuase of the noise from the approaching cars. You may have done the same thing in this situation. 

grab01

Not with ill intentions, no, and with my own dogs, it's not their job to bark at someone who wanders up with me with them. I would, however, much rather a dog bark a warning than moving on to a bite when it is protecting its property in its eyes.

So if I said "hello" to this guy which I might've done, if the small dog didn't come running out.. and slightly stepped on the edge of this driveway... it is appropriate for your dog or anyone's to approach me with warning barks? Shouldn't a dog be taught difference between attacker and stranger?

grab01

I wouldn't expect a dog to know my intentions in going on its property, nor would I feel it my job to "challenge" someone else's dog.  My expectations for my own dogs are not those of others to their own dogs, and there are some people who want their dogs to bark at strangers (although I'd hope they'd leash them)

Fair enough. I am seriously interested in hearing if anyone would do this though. And whether they think it's appropriate. You do not. But what about others... I follow the Positive Reinforcement trainers like Pat Miller and Patricia McConnell. I just never really heard any of them say what to do in a situation like this. I don't think I have anyway. I can't remember.

I'm afraid we'll need a sound recording. Dogs have different barks for different things. And an individual dog can develop a slightly different vocabulary from other dogs. It's kind of hard to tell from your description whether it was a warning bark (I'm about to rip your head off and crap down your neck) or simply an alert (there's something new on the property and I think my human should know). And yes, dogs can treat a specific line as a boundary, especially if taught to do so.

And you crossed the line by your own admission. It doesn't matter that you were trying to lead the other dog out of traffic and the GSD certainly doesn't understand your intentions because they don't actually read minds. One thing I do know about GSDs, they are guardians. So, I would expect them to bark or notify if someone crosses a boundary.

I realize you were startled but it sounds like the GSD did what he was supposed and stayed on his own property.

Sounds like a win-win situation to me.  The GSD just barked, you left and nothing really happened.  Neither of my dogs are really barkers (Kenya my GSD did not bark once until we got our second dog and he only barks when we come home out of excitement), but if someone is lurking around our house in the dark, Coke will give a deep bark or two.  Coke is a well-socialized dog who is a people-pleaser and lives for attention and affection.  He has never growled, snapped, lunged at, or done anything even remotely aggressive to anyone.  IMO a large dog that gives a few alert barks at a stranger in the dark is a pretty natural thing.  I get barked at by a lot of loose dogs on our walks, most of them just trot out to the edge of their property and give me a woof or two as if to say "I am here, don't come into our yard."  The only dogs that have ever actually charged us have been smaller dogs that flew out at us before we even saw where they came from.  Most dogs I know or cross on walks will give alert barks to people passing in the dark.  I don't really think anything of it one way or the other.

I am disheartened at the assumption that the GSD is trained to "not like" anyone.  Naturally, the breed is alert and aloof.  Aloof means that they are watchful and wary of new people, but not fearful or aggressive.  Dogs that ARE trained as PPDs will typically not engage without the handler's signal.  My GSD is off leash on my property because she knows the boundary and has never challenged it, not even when chasing a rabbit.  If a stranger walking by finds this inappropriate I challenge that person to actually meet my dog and see how well trained and behaved she is.  She would not bark at you even if you came ON the property because she is trained as a therapy dog and has to be welcoming of everyone unless *I* say otherwise, but like I said, my friendly, social dog would still bark at you if you were in my yard in the dark and he didn't know why. 

I have been in many situations like this, either walking at night or even volunteering at the shelter where you approach a run and for some reason, that dog is not cool with you.  I simply avoid staring down the dog and slowly back away, or if we're walking I just keep going past at a normal pace.  I don't walk in people's yards or allow my dogs to walk in yards (we walk straight on the sidewalk, if they need to poop which they rarely do on a walk they do it between the sidewalk and the street).  Like I said, so far the only dogs that actually wanted a confrontation were ones that escaped from their home or car and flew at us before we even saw them coming.
 

I think that you did the right thing with regard to the small dog, not knowing there was a GSD right behind him.  But, once the GSD gave a warning bark, my first inclination would be to avoid eye contact, move slowly away with my body turned to the side (exposure of the flank signals your intentions are not threatening), and basically back away sideways.  You do not want to turn your back on a GSD, as some of them will nip and retreat from behind - sort of a way of prodding you away faster.  Quick movement, as you already know, can engage them to chase.  So, all in all, I think things went pretty well for you.

I am disheartened at the assumption that the GSD is trained to "not like" anyone.  Naturally, the breed is alert and aloof.  Aloof means that they are watchful and wary of new people, but not fearful or aggressive

I have great danes that love everyone but if you had stepped foot on the property like this they would have charged at you barking their heads off. It's their job. The correct move is what you did- calmly and quietly leave, indicating with body langauge you mean no harm and are moving along. Good job saving the little dog though.

Should've I stood there without giving eye contact and challenged the dog? I think that is what a traditional trainer would have done. Right? Which is best? Since I can not train the dog I'm wondering if this would have been better than calmly walking away. Because if that dog sees me again he might try the same thing and think he's dominant over me.

thinking about dominance in such a situation is nonsensical. Thinking about "training" is also nonsensical. The dog is doing what he's supposed to do- guard his territory.

I agree thatyou handled this properly.  I also agree with the sadness at your thinking that the gsd was taught to dislike anyone but family and friends.  This gsd behaved exactly as he should have under the circumstances.  He didnt' charge, didn't menace, didn't threaten you in any way other than the warning barks, and that is exactly his job.

 Why would you feel that it was your job to "challenge" the dog?

ShelterDogs

Should've I stood there without giving eye contact and challenged the dog? I think that is what a traditional trainer would have done. Right?

I don't think so, actually. Even a trainer who favors dominance theories and whatnot would probably not think it wise or useful to challenge a GSD, on its own property, in the dark. If someone did this, the dog would (correctly) perceive this new person to be a threat.

A warning bark is also an alert bark. It doesn't sound like the GSD did anything wrong, nor did you. You helped a dog out of the street, and the GSD said "Hey you! What are your intentions?"  

Calmly walking away did not signal to the GSD that you are submissive to him. It signaled that you had no evil intentions, and are confident enough not to cower. As Liesje said, win-win! 

Nice job getting the small dog out of harms way.  Sounds like the GSD was doing what it does best....alerting his peeps that someone is near.  Best thing to do in that situation is be calm, look away from the dog, stand to the side and mosey on away. 

Frankly, the assumption that a GSD would be trained not to like anyone but family and friends saddens me. GSDs can be wonderful family pets as well as natural protectors.

Having said all this...of course you were startled.  You weren't expecting to hear the big woof of a dog while you were focused on the getting the small dog out of the street.  Good for you for making the statement that you did to the owner.

mudpuppy

I am disheartened at the assumption that the GSD is trained to "not like" anyone.  Naturally, the breed is alert and aloof.  Aloof means that they are watchful and wary of new people, but not fearful or aggressive

I have great danes that love everyone but if you had stepped foot on the property like this they would have charged at you barking their heads off. It's their job. The correct move is what you did- calmly and quietly leave, indicating with body langauge you mean no harm and are moving along. Good job saving the little dog though.

Should've I stood there without giving eye contact and challenged the dog? I think that is what a traditional trainer would have done. Right? Which is best? Since I can not train the dog I'm wondering if this would have been better than calmly walking away. Because if that dog sees me again he might try the same thing and think he's dominant over me.

thinking about dominance in such a situation is nonsensical. Thinking about "training" is also nonsensical. The dog is doing what he's supposed to do- guard his territory.

I couldnt agree more and I think your nerves are causing you to over analyze the situation. If your truly worried about the dog then do the neighborly thing and go introduce yourself to the new neighbor and dog without your dog in tow. Carry treats with you and you may have a GSD friend in no time.

Maybe the owner wasnt as startled as you because he knows his dog and its training......or maybe he is just stupid, LOL you dont know so go find out if your that worried about it. Anyhoo it sounds like he has done good so far to train his GSD.

It sounds like you did the right thing in a moment of anxiety. They sure can be imposing dogs but I admire their capabilities and self control all the same.

ron2

I'm afraid we'll need a sound recording. Dogs have different barks for different things. And an individual dog can develop a slightly different vocabulary from other dogs. It's kind of hard to tell from your description whether it was a warning bark (I'm about to rip your head off and crap down your neck) or simply an alert (there's something new on the property and I think my human should know). And yes, dogs can treat a specific line as a boundary, especially if taught to do so.

And you crossed the line by your own admission. It doesn't matter that you were trying to lead the other dog out of traffic and the GSD certainly doesn't understand your intentions because they don't actually read minds. One thing I do know about GSDs, they are guardians. So, I would expect them to bark or notify if someone crosses a boundary.

I realize you were startled but it sounds like the GSD did what he was supposed and stayed on his own property.

ron, I already understand this. I'm not sure where in my post I stated that I was blaming the GSD for any of the dog's actions! I wanted to see what everyone else would have done in this same situation. It appears that I did do the right thing, which I thought I did. But for some reason needed vindication. I guess I was a bit wound up last night going over and over the situation in my head.

That is all I was asking. You and some others are being very defensive of the GSD. When there is no reason to do so. As for the type of bark, if you have "The bark Stops Here" it is the bark on Page 6, "Omaha, The "Offensive" Barker." "... It's a startling bark of high intensity, but short duration that is great for the shock effect!"  Or you could go to "How To Speak Dog" Page 59: "Single sharp short bark, lower midrange pitch." Does this describe it a little better for you? I thought by calling it a "warning" bark and that the pitch was low that it would be understood.

He could have been alerting. You are right. But would an alerting dog already be making their move on the stranger? Wouldn't an alerting dog be calling out for their pack leader to meet them at wherever they are because they hear something? In this case, the dog had already left the pack leader.

CoBuHe

Frankly, the assumption that a GSD would be trained not to like anyone but family and friends saddens me. GSDs can be wonderful family pets as well as natural protectors.

Well you are the fourth or so person to say this in the thread. I totally understand this. The only reason I said that is because the owner appears to be irresponsible. That is why I made that connection. I didn't say that I thought this was definitely the case. I called it a possibility only due to the irresponsible actions of the owner. And the owner has does this before. Because one other night from a long distance, I could see a large dog out in their front yard. I could hear them trying to get the dog back in. So this isn't the first time they've done this. They obviously have not fully trained these dogs to be off leash.

Also, I had only just recently read an article in the paper that at our main shelter in the city... 2/3 of the dogs are pit bulls. And the director of the shelter went on to say that there are too many people in the city that are owning pit bulls to look tough. He went on to say that they train these dogs to only be nice to family and friends but not nice to strangers. And that can often lead to the dog being surrendered to the shelter if something happens. So this story was very fresh in my head. And I guess I just overanalyzed the situation like someone else in the topic said.

Sorry if some of our responses put you on the defense but there are many responsible owner of GSD's and Pit Bulls here on the forum (myself included) and sometimes its hard to comminicate via the internet and a lot of things can be taken out of context.

I still stand by the fact that if you fear a dog, regardless of its breed to speak to the owner and not make assumptions. What if the owner assumed you were a busy-body who should have minded their own business because his small dog knows what a street adn car is......that'd really stink because you had the best of intentions. Assumptions can go both ways and an only be resolved by communication.

We were all supportive in the fact that you did the right thing. I think some of us were put off by your wording and for that I apologize for the miscommunication.