Would this make you uncomfortable?

 I'm not sure. I never had a class where equipment was used like a prong or choke collar. Do you have to use the equipment if you don't want too?

The only observing for 15 mins. would make me uneasy too, but it could go either way. Either something goes on that she doesn't want people to see until they are already registered, or what your mother said, the trainer doesn't want anyone stealing ideas or learning to much from just "observing" where they won't sign up for the class. 

This is just me, but if I were in your position I would probably keep looking for a class elsewhere.

Well I'm kinda on the fence with this.

Schutz. is tough and stimualting work for dogs and if its a class full of beginners the trainer might strongly suggest a choke to ensure all handelers have a firm hold on their dogs. Its gotta be a bit intense working with a whole group of high drive dogs and I am comforted by the fact it is not required.

I am totally put off by the fact that they say "positive reinforcement with a collar correction", LOL. It makes me think these are the kind of trainers who are going to be doing alpha rolls as a way to enfore your alphaness.

It dosnt sound like a class I would enroll in but I still urge you to go for the 15 minutes, trust your instincts and voice your concerns in a email to them. What do you have to loose by asking them about their so called postive reinforcement?

Since the trainer only suggested the prong even if it was "strongly suggested" then I wouldn't worry about it.  As far as the 15 minute observation at the first of the class, maybe it's to avoid distractions to the paying clients/dogs. 

But my paranoid, over-reacting side says "Uh oh, what ARE they hiding?". I'm not kidding, my mind works the same way. Maybe you could ask for some referrals.  I would think any good dog training center would have plenty and not hesitate to give you all you wanted.

It would make me very uncomfortable. I would like to watch a whole class. I do believe in choke collars but definetly not prong collars.

 Well I think prongs are much more humane than chokes, the suggestion of using a prong does not in itself worry me, but I wouldn't want to sign up for (and pay for) a class on the basis of a 15-minute observation. 

The not allowing you to watch thing weirds me out the most (I'm with Kate - prongs are safer than chokes any day and I would not be put off simply by the recommendation).  Our Schutzhund club welcomes visitors/watchers indefinitely and we have no requirements as far as what tools are allowed/not allowed.  We have a 10 year old girl in our club.  Our training director/helper has been breeding and training dogs for the state police and has his own police dogs and he is a very positive trainer, doesn't even like using prongs on his dogs. 

If the place has a good reputation and people you know recommend it, I would have no worries and would not feel obligated to use their "recommended" equipment.  As long as your equipment controls the dog, that is all that is needed.

In my area, there is a very popular training facilities much like the one you describe.  They train police dog for the state, have puppy classes, obedience training, agility, herding, groom and board.  They use corrections and rewards (food) in their training but feel they have a unique way of training.  For that reason they don't allow auditing the class because they say they were getting the Petsmart and Petco trainers coming in all the time and learning their techniques for free.

This facility required a choker and food and I complied with my first dog.  For my second dog I did neither, I touched and praised the dog and they were alright with that.  I am sure it will be the same way with you.  As long as you pay, attend, listen, and practice....there should be no problem.  BTW, this place told me to put a prong on the dog while in agility class.  I told them I couldn't get over its look and just could not do that.  We finished two levels of agility without choker or prong.  They really were not necessary.

 

I'm pretty much with everybody else. The collar suggestions don't bother me, a bit (especially with driven dogs!), but the not watching does. What if you enroll, pay, and find that you disagree so strongly with the methods used that you can't return? Are you just out the cost of a class? That's a lot of money! 

I think the worry about the prong collar is the fact that they say they use corrections, but strongly recommend a prong.

Isn't prong supposed to be self-correcting? You're not supposed to yank a dog on a prong, are you?

Yeah, see?

So now I have a visual of doing collar corrections in a prong collar (which I have seen go very badly in the past), though I'm not opposed to the use of prong collars in general.

Prongs are supposed to be self-correcting, but what makes me uncomfortable is the fact that any trainer would recommend that you show up in one.  That speaks to me of an inability pr an unwillingness to assess each dog individually for the appropriateness of the equipment in which the dog will work. 

Second red flag - unwilling to let you audit a class to see if you are comfortable with the methods they use.  What ARE they afraid of???  I let my prospective students audit a class because I want them to see how happy the dogs are, and how relaxed an atmosphere we have.  It's good business - I recently had one client's dog walker show up to audit the class her client was in, and not only is she signed up for class, but I'm already getting referrals from her.

Personally, this is a place I would avoid.  Go somewhere where you can observe to see whether the dogs and handlers look happy, confused, fearful, joyful (my choice for how I want my dog to feel)  while they perform the exercises, and whether the method employed seems benign, positive, harsh, etc.  It's your dog, and the dog trusts you as a protector.  IMHO, you shouldn't let the dog down.

Some dogs (fearful, aggressive) should not be worked in a prong, and doing so can do serious harm.  I don't personally recommend prongs now that we have more humane alternatives, and better knowledge of canine learning & motivation. 

DPU

 

In my area, there is a very popular training facilities much like the one you describe.  They train police dog for the state, have puppy classes, obedience training, agility, herding, groom and board.  They use corrections and rewards (food) in their training but feel they have a unique way of training.  For that reason they don't allow auditing the class because they say they were getting the Petsmart and Petco trainers coming in all the time and learning their techniques for free.

 

That was my first thought.  Not necessarily Petco or Petsmart trainers, but that if they allow people to witness the entire class they may think "well, that's easy enough, I don't need to pay, I'll just use the techniques I learned from watching".  Sort of like people do all the time from watching a trainer on Oprah or one episode of the Dog Whisperer.  I can sort of understand the policy. 

 

If you feel uneasy though, go with your gut. Instincts are there for a reason!

The recommendation of the prong would bother me too much.  I wouldn't use it, but I know people who use it on their dogs with great success. 

I do have a problem with not being allowed to audit an entire class.  I don't feel that I would be able to make an informed decision on only 15 minutes of viewing.

The fact that they "recommend" a prong collar but don't require it doesn't set off too many alarm bells with me. I would prefer that they wait and evaluate each dog individually, but, meh, they may have just found that the prong collars are much safer than the slip collars that their clients were tending to show up with otherwise. As for only being able to observe the first 15 minutes.... Well, I can certainly see where they may just be trying to prevent people from coming and getting a free lesson under the guise of observing a class before they sign up. It seems unlikely to me that any class would be formatted so that the first 15 minutes are all cookies and kisses, and then they pull out the instruments of torture once the first 15 minutes is up. But, here's a suggestion: ask if you can come to the last 15 minutes instead. Make up some reason why you can't be there for the first 15 minutes that particular day. If it's just that they don't want you getting a freebie class by watching the whole thing, they shouldn't care which 15 minute sample you get. If they are trying to keep the paw screws and puppy water board out of sight until the observers have left, then it will matter more to them exactly when you are present, and not just for how long you are present.

Well I'm glad that I'm not being completely irrational about this. It isn't the use of the prong collar that bothers me so much as it is the limitation on how much of the class I can view before signing up. Jamie is walked in a prong right now when the situation calls for it. The class fee is non-refundable, so I need to be pretty damn sure when I sign up that I want to be in the class. We got hammered with a tornado last night, (no power at all at home - I'm at Panera now) so I will probably not be going to observe the class tonight. Perhaps next Tuesday will be less eventful!