Brindle Pit Bull Hair Problem?

Another quick point about tie-outs. My familiarity is with sled dogs. These are working dogs, not bred or trained as family pets. Their job is to pull a sled at 20 mph for a couple of hours in - 70 F weather. A professional kennel may have 40 to 80 dogs, too many to have in the house. They sleep on tie-outs or zip lines. But they are not left on them all day. Constantly, throughout the day, they are fed. They go happy crazy when you jingle the harness and set up gangline for a run. They get exercised hard every day. And are vetted constantly with particular attention to bloodwork and diet depending on the work load (off season, heavy training, in season competition). The handlers have a full time job cleaning the dog run, preparing meals (anything from kibble and baited water to homecooked thick stew, to cleaning raw meat, especially fish and seal.)

So, even in that circumstance, the tie-outs and zip lines are a matter of efficiency and mechanics in handling so many dogs. But the dogs do not lack for company. So, if you gahustle are going to tie your dog out at times, remember that it is only for a little while for some expedient reason but that your dog could and should live in the house with you.

Many places have enacted no-tie-out laws for dogs that are pets, i.e., non-working dogs.

And I wish you luck in your education.

And you can work your pit bull. They are excellent freight pullers. And there are weight pull competitions to get your dog certs as a working dog. A guy in my area has a beautiful girl Pittie that can already pull a couple of hundred pounds.

 Good points Ron2.

 I believe that in GA there are a few clubs for weight pulling and other competition so hopefully one near them. Hopefully weight pull won't be banned anytime soon.

Gahustle you should really check it out with your dog once you've got him healthy and worked on the obedience training.

 

Is this how you want your dog to live, tied-out all year, all season long, unprotected.  Pags had the similar patches you talk about in opening statement.  When I got her, she had fur missing all over.  The cause was allergic reactions to fleas.  There are a lot of incidental costs that arise in caring for the dog.  Are you prepared?

Spicy_Bulldog

Marklf

Now for the biggest concern about keeping him as an "outside dog".  Any breed of dog that is left tied out has a greater chance of becoming aggressive and this seems to be especially true of the pit bulls!

 I sure hope that is a joke. If not it is misinformation.

 

No it is not a joke!  As I stated any breed that is left tied out has a greater chance of becoming aggressive and this is especially true of the pit bull.  Pit bulls are a breed of dog that does much better if it is raised in a social situation where it is correctly exposed to people and other animals.  As you stated most pit bulls want to play they also like to be with their "human" if left tied out with little or no opportunity to play and to spend time with their "human" the dog can become bored and frustrated which can then lead  to aggression.  Exactly what part of that do you consider to be "misinformation"?  And why is it "misinformation" when I state it but when others here such as Chuffy state the same thing you say nothing?

Mark

What I was saying was, tying a dog out as a way of life for the dog is a bad idea.... regardless of breed.  If it does lead to aggression, then this is worse BECAUSE it's a Pit.  I think the words I used were... "hardly anyone cares if a chi tries to remove a kid's face".  Tying out a pit is also worse because they are targets for theft.  I hope that clarifies.

gahustle:

defended my posts, because instead of getting helpful advice on how to be a good owner, i got critics saying how im going to be a bad owner

 

This will be tough for you to imagine but consider it a challenge

you got lots of wonderful advice. BAD dog owners tie their dogs up outside and/or ban them from the house. Period. Dogs are highly social animals and being isolated is the most distressing thing possible for a dog. Most dogs would rather starve than be kept isolated in a pen/ on a chain.

Chuffy

What I was saying was, tying a dog out as a way of life for the dog is a bad idea.... regardless of breed.  If it does lead to aggression, then this is worse BECAUSE it's a Pit.  I think the words I used were... "hardly anyone cares if a chi tries to remove a kid's face".  Tying out a pit is also worse because they are targets for theft.  I hope that clarifies.

Actually the quote of yours that I was refering to was;

"A well bred pit bull should not be aggresisve towards PEOPLE.  However, if he is kept outdoors on a tie out, human aggression is much much more likely.  This is why everyone is urging you to bring this dog into your house."

Which is pretty much the same thing that I said.  I also clearly stated that this could happen to any breed.  So I am still left wondering just how my post was "misinformation".

Mark

 

DPU

Is this how you want your dog to live, tied-out all year, all season long, unprotected.  Pags had the similar patches you talk about in opening statement.  When I got her, she had fur missing all over.  The cause was allergic reactions to fleas.  There are a lot of incidental costs that arise in caring for the dog.  Are you prepared?

This just breaks my heart.......why get a dog if he is a prisoner on a tie out.......dogs love social interaction. I couldn't sleep at night knowing my dog (or my 5 dogs) is all alone outside in the heat or cold and I am comfy in a nice bed....but, hey, that's just me......

 

Marklf

Spicy_Bulldog

Marklf

Now for the biggest concern about keeping him as an "outside dog".  Any breed of dog that is left tied out has a greater chance of becoming aggressive and this seems to be especially true of the pit bulls!

 I sure hope that is a joke. If not it is misinformation.

 

No it is not a joke!  As I stated any breed that is left tied out has a greater chance of becoming aggressive and this is especially true of the pit bull.  Pit bulls are a breed of dog that does much better if it is raised in a social situation where it is correctly exposed to people and other animals.  As you stated most pit bulls want to play they also like to be with their "human" if left tied out with little or no opportunity to play and to spend time with their "human" the dog can become bored and frustrated which can then lead  to aggression.  Exactly what part of that do you consider to be "misinformation"?  And why is it "misinformation" when I state it but when others here such as Chuffy state the same thing you say nothing?

Mark

 I didn't read Chuffy's post didn't see anywhere that targeted Pit Bulls as especially likely to become aggressive when tethered.

What I consider misinformation is the part of your post I quoted, especially the part that was in italic. It is right above to see but here it is again.....

Any breed of dog that is left tied out has a greater chance of becoming aggressive and this seems to be especially true of the pit bulls!

I'm not sure what makes you think Pit Bulls will be more prone to becoming aggressive if tethered/tied/chained, ect.That could not be further from the truth. I grew up around Pit Bulls, I have been around thousands of Pit Bulls I've also been on many larger yards. Can't say I agree with everything that I saw either (housing/containment wise) but none of the dogs were aggressive towards me, many were not aggressive to other dogs either. Some I only met them once or twice, others were dogs I knew for years. One I went to the guy was not home, the dogs were more then happy to give 2 strangers loads of kisses. The only APBT which had ever shown aggression towards me and actually attempted to lunge and bite me was a house dog. Yes a Pit Bull that is tied can become aggressive, to say especially is not correct and goes against the nature of the breed. There are breeds that I would admit to being weary of tying because they are possibly more likely to have aggression problems in that department, the Pit Bull is not one of them. APBTs were tethered historically yet not known as dangerous aggressive dogs until the more recent years. They were known as loyal and friendly dogs. The Pit Bull should not become aggressive when bored, destructive maybe but that would mean chewing things up, digging, it might bark if it becomes frustrated aggressive no.I can't guarantee the soundness of this particular pup no. But you were speaking in general terms as am I. Due to the APBT extremely friendly nature they should be much more concerned of their dog being stolen then biting someone who approaches. By leaving their dog outside unsupervised they're making the dog vulnerable and it would be tempting for someone to just walk up and take him. Or even for someone to harm and kill the dog, especially it being a Pit Bull, some people hate them. Basically the APBT nature and temperament in general is inarguable. There are always those nasty exceptions, I don't deny those, but it is a minimal worry.

I never tod Gahustle to only provide little or no opportunity to play and to spend time with their dog. I stressed the exact opposite.

This is just one I let my pup have a good time playing with. He is nothing but a big goof ball.


This is another who I fell in love with, I really wanted her myself. She just climbed right up in my lap and gave me bunches of kisses. Her brother is the same way and I think took a big win recently so he is very sweet guy and not aggressive on or off the chain.


Yes those are only 2 examples, but those 2 dogs represent the general friendliness and temperament of the of APBTs. I don't know how much hands on experience you have, maybe it has been negative with stable APBTs with social issues andh bad owners. This would be in stark contrast to the type of APBTs I know and how they should be.   

Even ones of not so great breeding and badly treated is probably going to love people. I've seen that with a large percentage of rescues, some of which underwent regular abuse. Those types might have some shyness and need confidence building, learn to trust again.

One of many would be a a male of 4yrs old, never obedience trained, never socialized since living in the woods on a chain doesn't allow for him to meet many people. In poor physical condition and health. He is one of the sweetest dogs I've ever known, of course most APBTs are but I guess with his background it just shows another reason why I think they are such a great breed. He loves every and any human, even fine with some other male dogs, fine with female dogs, absolutely adored puppies. Breed ambassador all the way.

I would much rather see them keep this pup inside, the dog can be trained, won't think its human, ect. I can't force them to keep the pup inside though. So telling them they are some type of terrible dog owner won't help them or the pup, certainly won't make them change their mind. I'm not going to say an APBT more likely to become aggressive when they are tied because if anything they are a breed that is less likely. History has shown this as well as living and breathing dogs today. There are aggressive chained Pit Bulls, same as in kennels, fences and houses. Most have unstable temperaments to start, some are sought out for that specific purpose, others have problems that the owners don't know how to deal with, some don't take the problems seriously then tragedy strikes.

Yes they want to be with their people, they love people, that is why they are more likely to be attention starved hyper dogs then aggressive dogs who just get too excited and don't know how to act when a person finally comes to them. Jumping, scratching, climbing, won't sit still dog. Gahustle totally needs to get their mind set on giving this dog a good life even though they want to keep the dog outside.

A dog that is poorly bred and imporperly raised has a chance of becoming aggressive, we can't say any dog that is tied as a greater chance because it depends on the dog and some can have to do with the breed. If you look at it statistacally you have a lesser chance of being attacked by a tethered dogs. Of course I don't put much into the stats, I judge the individual dogs body language.

While I don't know much about coondogs most all the ones I met (less then 50) were tied, they'd bay and raise a ruckus upon first seeing me but they were pretty friendly. I really don't know if that is the norm with their temeperament but I do know a lot of these people were hunters and didn't do much for socializing and training other then what was needed to hunt but the dogs were not aggressive.

I think it is fine to warn this new owner that their dog might have the potential to become aggressive in such a situation but to say especially with Pit Bulls when it is just a small risk with this breed is what I find a problem with. Especially when their are much more concerning things at hand. Making sure the dog doesn't get loose, obedience train, proper socialization, giving exercise, give them mental stimulation. Again theft or harm to the dog. He'd be safer inside.

Spicy,

I see and read everything you have to say....and you make a strong point.....

Here is my concern, you might not agree, but the message I got from the dog owner has me concerned. It seems dogs are somewhat disposable in his eyes. He was 17 when he came here and claims in one of his recent posts he already had several dogs........so, excuse me for pointing that out and knowing what happened to his last dog I am worrying about this one......

I still think it's a no no to tie out a dog without companionship.....talk about doing some serious damage to a dog......the old handling days are over and most people agree that a dog benefits from staying inside.....so, why not provide the best for an animal if it is available......

Actually, I think that is one of the best posts I have read and could have easily have been written by Amstaffy, if I may be so bold. And, it goes to show, that first impressions can be deceiving. I gain more respect for you with each passing post. And I agree, a properly bred pit, from what little I know, should have a sweet disposition and a trememdous work ethic, backed up by the physical ability to do just about any job. In fact, I would say that pits should such softies and friendly that it would make it difficult for them to be guard dogs, as guard dogs would normally be aloof of strangers, hence the guarding action. Amstaffy did say it best in that bad breeding has created shy, iffy pit bulls. But I think some of that comes from an image created by people such as Michael Vick, who kills dogs that fail to fight or win a fight, giving the impression that the breed loves to fight. Because even when a dog fighter breeds to create a better fighter, some out of the litter won't fight. This is a testament to what is essentially a good temperment, in spite of the sins of evil ones. That is, it can seem like the breed is viscious only because the true dogs of stable temperment are killed and only the ones that have the luck to win a fight get to live.

But any dog can be pushed far enough.

snownose

Spicy,

I see and read everything you have to say....and you make a strong point.....

Here is my concern, you might not agree, but the message I got from the dog owner has me concerned. It seems dogs are somewhat disposable in his eyes. He was 17 when he came here and claims in one of his recent posts he already had several dogs........so, excuse me for pointing that out and knowing what happened to his last dog I am worrying about this one......

I still think it's a no no to tie out a dog without companionship.....talk about doing some serious damage to a dog......the old handling days are over and most people agree that a dog benefits from staying inside.....so, why not provide the best for an animal if it is available......

 I don't really know much of their old post since I'm still fairly new around here. I am trying to stress to them how important and how much work it is going to be having this dog, inside let alone outside will be more work. They seem open minded enough to take into consideration what we say, but calling them simply a bad owner who doesn't care will push them away. If they made a mistake in the past hopefully we can help prevent the same in the future. I'd also like to know where are the parents in this with the dogs before. Often how dogs are treated comes from how the parents view them. If you're raised there disposable that is how you'll probably see them, not always but mind you its like a view of anything else. Parents need to set themselves as a role model for good dog ownership.

I would not want to see them tie out this pup and forget about it. I'd hope they'd see it is easier to keep the dog inside and less work but if they absolutely will not keep him in then I will try to help for the best outcome of the dog outside.

Some patrol/detection dogs live in boarding kennels. I would think that a dog would benefit more by living with its handler in their home. I would think it'd make for a stronger bond. But not everyone thinks like I do.

The old pit days is what has made the breed how they are today. We can certainly change that (and really should on most things) how they are treated, how they live but it has locked in some positive traits so I felt it wrong to single out the APBT as being more likely to become aggressive. 

ron2

Actually, I think that is one of the best posts I have read and could have easily have been written by Amstaffy, if I may be so bold. And, it goes to show, that first impressions can be deceiving. I gain more respect for you with each passing post. And I agree, a properly bred pit, from what little I know, should have a sweet disposition and a trememdous work ethic, backed up by the physical ability to do just about any job. In fact, I would say that pits should such softies and friendly that it would make it difficult for them to be guard dogs, as guard dogs would normally be aloof of strangers, hence the guarding action. Amstaffy did say it best in that bad breeding has created shy, iffy pit bulls. But I think some of that comes from an image created by people such as Michael Vick, who kills dogs that fail to fight or win a fight, giving the impression that the breed loves to fight. Because even when a dog fighter breeds to create a better fighter, some out of the litter won't fight. This is a testament to what is essentially a good temperment, in spite of the sins of evil ones. That is, it can seem like the breed is viscious only because the true dogs of stable temperment are killed and only the ones that have the luck to win a fight get to live.

But any dog can be pushed far enough.

Wow thanks, I didn't know if anyone would actually take the time to read it.

That is true of them being guard dogs, really goes against their nature. More likely to greet a stranger then guard against them.

Vick showed that not all are going to be fighters, might not even be DA at all. Usually the stable temperament dogs are not killed but the ones who lack gameness are. If they are cold they might be bred to see if they will produce game dogs. A Pit Bull that is DA is not considered unstable. (DA is accepted trait in some other breeds to) Despite what many people believe a fighting dog should not be anymore vicious or unstable then any other APBT. I'm glad the Vick case was so publicized because it helped some of the general public to see that a fighting dog is no different then any other APBT. It is an individual dog. They are not going to suddenly attack without warning and that they do not want to fight anything they see. I hoped that it would have weight for future bust with dogs being temperament tested and not PTS based on their past.
Many APBT consider a game bred dog to be stable and suitable for pet life. Even a game dog does not have to be fight crazy or overly DA. They'd have a stable affectionate temperament with people and possibly be able to get along with some other dogs. Some dogmen would cull a dog who would kill a puppy (even male dogs) just as quickly as they'd cull a dog for quitting. So I think it just depends on your perspective. But I do follow the logic as it depends on the person. There are people who breed fight crazy dogs that will attack and fight anything, they just breed for aggression, many would not even care about gameness at all or want one that acts aggressive feeds their ego. They will also breed human aggressive dogs and use them to intimidate others or as guard dogs. Some again only want them for their ego but bad things happen when they can't control the dog. This is what the general public sees and fears. Most do not see the real Pit Bulls of stable mind who do helpful jobs or are loving companions.

I hate their popularity. It is ruining the breeds temperament and having them viewed as so dangerous and vicious when that is far from their usual and correct temperament. All popular breeds suffer, but with a such a powerful and tenacious breed it can be disastrous.

Spicy_Bulldog

I hate their popularity. It is ruining the breeds temperament

I see that happening with other breeds, including my favorite, the Siberian Husky. a movie like "Snowdogs" or "8 Below" comes out and people want to rush out and get a Sibe puppy. It was really bad with "Snowdogs." Everyone wanted "Demon", a black and white with blue eyes. Then, surprise, surprise, their "Demon" doesn't act like the one in the movie (due to training and camera angles) and doesn't act like the Lab they had as a kid. And, at one year old, the dog winds up in the shelter for not being "trainable". Not to mention breeding willy nilly with no regard to temperment or structure and instead, breeding for designer colors. The all white Siberian is not from true foundation stock but is a case of breeding for a specific color to meet a specific want in the dog market. Or, in other cases, breeding for show and conformation, which has had health consequences. I mentioned it before but there was an american line of Sibes that were winning shows based on dimensions and color and were going blind by age three. The original breeding was for temperment and workability as a draught animal and caretaker of children and sometimes herding reindeer. Not fullfilling an exact diminsion of 24 inches in height and a weight of no more than 60 lbs in a male.

 

ron2

Spicy_Bulldog

I hate their popularity. It is ruining the breeds temperament

I see that happening with other breeds, including my favorite, the Siberian Husky. a movie like "Snowdogs" or "8 Below" comes out and people want to rush out and get a Sibe puppy. It was really bad with "Snowdogs." Everyone wanted "Demon", a black and white with blue eyes. Then, surprise, surprise, their "Demon" doesn't act like the one in the movie (due to training and camera angles) and doesn't act like the Lab they had as a kid. And, at one year old, the dog winds up in the shelter for not being "trainable". Not to mention breeding willy nilly with no regard to temperment or structure and instead, breeding for designer colors. The all white Siberian is not from true foundation stock but is a case of breeding for a specific color to meet a specific want in the dog market. Or, in other cases, breeding for show and conformation, which has had health consequences. I mentioned it before but there was an american line of Sibes that were winning shows based on dimensions and color and were going blind by age three. The original breeding was for temperment and workability as a draught animal and caretaker of children and sometimes herding reindeer. Not fullfilling an exact diminsion of 24 inches in height and a weight of no more than 60 lbs in a male.

 

 I love your train of thought! This is true of the APBT, I've seen some horrible things in some of the show bred dogs and AST. They do not even look much like they should anymore but they are winning shows, so its ok. Just because their breed function is now illegal does not mean they are incapable of doing some other type of work or at least looking like they can do the job. I don't understand working breeds being bred to a standard that would totally hinder their job, let home that it might cause health problems with the structure weakness.

I'm also seeing this with the Cane Corso. I saw on animal cops 2 abandoned they are gaining and gaining in popularity, leading to horrible structure and weak, nervy temperament. That was a couple days ago then just yesterday I see a kennel which claimed of having 140lbs show winner. I thought over sized but if it is still balanced then not a problem, 140lbs is starting to be seen commonly in some lines. When I saw the dog mentioned it was the most hideous CC I've ever seen. I'm not trying to be mean to the dog, no fault of his own, but structure was terrible and this dog won a show. It was not the matter that he was over sized he appeared to have weak front end with shorter leg and longer body then what should be seen, his face was not so correct either. If that was not bad enough I saw this CC ad that was terrible. 170lbs sire, pups will be the largest you will find guarantee, they went on to say they've seen many CC but none as large as theirs. That is like a total red flag, to brag that your dog is 60lbs over standard and then say you won't find another. Well no kidding you should not find another because it is incorrect. If you see someone claim a 45lbs Chihuahua well your probably not going to find another breeder to that. It should be common sense to the breeder that something is wrong with their specimen. It should also tell the buyer this dog is not quality. This is not simply because of conformation standards, a CC above or below weight that can still work is ok but with all that extra mass and weight is not as athletic, agile or as able to work. This dog look like a Neo cross. Like a hulk of a dog. I've seen some of the american line conformation dogs which I do not care for but they only run 130-140, they look ok but certainly beefed up compared to others but still like beefy CC. I never would have imagined seeing a 170lbs CC male. Both studs were also blue of course, blue and formentino are the new in thing to have, not to mention those peddling the oh so rare tan point.

Spicy_Bulldog

 I didn't read Chuffy's post didn't see anywhere that targeted Pit Bulls as especially likely to become aggressive when tethered.

If you read my post above you will see that I even highlighted his quote.  And yes, just like me he "targeted" pit bulls.

Spicy_Bulldog

I'm not sure what makes you think Pit Bulls will be more prone to becoming aggressive if tethered/tied/chained, ect.

 

Not sure that I ever said they were "more prone" what I think that I said was that "Any breed has a greater chance of becoming aggressive if left tied out and that is especially true of the pit bulls".  I have also stated why it is "especially true" of the pit bulls.  They are by nature a dog that wants to be with their humans and they want to please their humans.  Basically the breed loves humans!  If they are left tied out and not given the opportunity to socialize they may become frustrated and frustration in dogs may manifest itself as aggression.  If you had bothered to read the next sentence in my original post I also clarified "That does not mean that all dogs that are tied outside will become aggressive or that all dogs that live in the house will not be aggressive!" 

You provide nice anecdotal evidence that in your experience pit bulls are just lovable dogs that are not prone to aggression even if they are left tied out.  I could also provide tons of anecdotal evidence which counters your point of view.  In fact their is already a thread in these boards that deals with a pit bull that was left tied out who happened to kill a three year old child!  That does NOT MEAN that all pit bulls that are left tied up will end up eating children but it does mean that those that have breeds such as the pit bull which are powerful and capable of being either a great family dog or a danger to those that are near them need to be responsible to insure that the dogs that they raise are given the best chance to remain the former vice the latter.

 

A lot has been said about the temperament of the "well bred APBT" but for the life of me I cannot see anything in the original posters story that would lead me to think this was a "well bred" dog.  In fact his story sends of many red flags about the breeding of this dog.  Because of the limited knowledge of the original poster and the questionable breeding of this dog it seems that it is quite reasonable to  caution him about the risks associated with leaving his dog tied out.  If you notice in my original post I offered suggestion to minimize the chances of his dog becoming aggressive such as training, execersize, socializing the dog, giving the dog a "job".... perhaps you missed those suggestions in you quest to find some perceived insult to pit bull breed.  Let me assure you that there was NO insult to the breed posted by me.

Mark