Marklf
Spicy_Bulldog
I didn't read Chuffy's post didn't see anywhere that targeted Pit Bulls as especially likely to become aggressive when tethered.
If you read my post above you will see that I even highlighted his quote. And yes, just like me he "targeted" pit bulls.
Sorry but like everyone else I cannot see replies that appear while I'm typing.
Marklf
Chuffy
What I was saying was, tying a dog out as a way of life for the dog is a bad idea.... regardless of breed. If it does lead to aggression, then this is worse BECAUSE it's a Pit. I think the words I used were... "hardly anyone cares if a chi tries to remove a kid's face". Tying out a pit is also worse because they are targets for theft. I hope that clarifies.
Actually the quote of yours that I was refering to was;
"A well bred pit bull should not be aggresisve towards PEOPLE. However, if he is kept outdoors on a tie out, human aggression is much much more likely. This is why everyone is urging you to bring this dog into your house."
Which is pretty much the same thing that I said. I also clearly stated that this could happen to any breed. So I am still left wondering just how my post was "misinformation".
Mark
In reply to it, some people like to exaggerate or just have a different opinion of what "much much more likely" means. Just as one example I've observed the same with not neutering and testicular cancer. I have seen people say the exact same thing much much more likely, others said "very likely" or even "he will die of cancer if you don't neuter him". Yet stats show that to be around 1% risk. 0% would mean none sure but I do not consider 1% to be a high risk, much much likely, ect.
Marklf
Spicy_Bulldog
I'm not sure what makes you think Pit Bulls will be more prone to becoming aggressive if tethered/tied/chained, ect.
Not sure that I ever said they were "more prone" what I think that I said was that "Any breed has a greater chance of becoming aggressive if left tied out and that is especially true of the pit bulls". I have also stated why it is "especially true" of the pit bulls. They are by nature a dog that wants to be with their humans and they want to please their humans. Basically the breed loves humans! If they are left tied out and not given the opportunity to socialize they may become frustrated and frustration in dogs may manifest itself as aggression. If you had bothered to read the next sentence in my original post I also clarified "That does not mean that all dogs that are tied outside will become aggressive or that all dogs that live in the house will not be aggressive!"
You provide nice anecdotal evidence that in your experience pit bulls are just lovable dogs that are not prone to aggression even if they are left tied out. I could also provide tons of anecdotal evidence which counters your point of view. In fact their is already a thread in these boards that deals with a pit bull that was left tied out who happened to kill a three year old child! That does NOT MEAN that all pit bulls that are left tied up will end up eating children but it does mean that those that have breeds such as the pit bull which are powerful and capable of being either a great family dog or a danger to those that are near them need to be responsible to insure that the dogs that they raise are given the best chance to remain the former vice the latter.
A lot has been said about the temperament of the "well bred APBT" but for the life of me I cannot see anything in the original posters story that would lead me to think this was a "well bred" dog. In fact his story sends of many red flags about the breeding of this dog. Because of the limited knowledge of the original poster and the questionable breeding of this dog it seems that it is quite reasonable to caution him about the risks associated with leaving his dog tied out. If you notice in my original post I offered suggestion to minimize the chances of his dog becoming aggressive such as training, execersize, socializing the dog, giving the dog a "job".... perhaps you missed those suggestions in you quest to find some perceived insult to pit bull breed. Let me assure you that there was NO insult to the breed posted by me.
Mark
No you did not use those exact words. You said especially Pit Bulls though.
Some definition of especially
particularly, more than usually, to a distinctly greater extent or degree than is common
This would be the same as saying more likely would it not. More then common, more then the usual, prone could be substituted I feel.
It is not especially true of Pit Bulls, it is possible in Pit Bulls as you mention an attack I already conceded to that. To say it won't ever happen I would be lying.
Your reasons for it being especially true for Pit Bulls are the direct reasons why they do well (as far as not being aggressive) even neglected on tie outs, small cages or kennels. Of course that shouldn't be an excuse to tie them out and forget them, I would not encourage the poster to do that. Usually if anything at all the dog becomes hyper and some become destruction (not aggressive destroying objects) others create games for themselves that are not destructive. Some do become aggressive in many situations. You mentioned a tied Pit Bull that killed a 3yr old. There are plenty of stories of Pit Bulls raised and kept indoors mauling or killing children from toddler to teen. As you also stated in your posts that they love people, need socialized, training, ect it is not the means of confinement which causes social issues it is the lack of those things. Again anecdotal....I went to meet 2 male APBTs, one was tied and the other kenneled. Both were deathly fearful, not because of a kennel or tie out but because of lack of socialization. The tied dog just cowered to the ground and the kenneled dog cowered and hid behind his dog house. Neither should be like this, they should happy, friendly, out going ready for lots of attention even though not socialized. So it goes to show that yes some of them can be negatively effected. They do not all retain their solid foundations.
I also might be wrong but don't they have a fence around the yard? I thought they said that the other dog ran free but then they put up a fence? Tethering the dog without a fence would obviously allow for a person/other animal to easily come into the chain spot vs having some type of barrier. If there was no fence then I would recommend putting one up despite the primary containment being tethering.
As I said I don't know your experience with Pits, it might be different then mine. If you have those stories of your own for the majority of Pit Bulls you've known then I do not take a problem with that or call you a liar. But anecdotal aside regardless of breed I already posted statically less tethered dogs are involved in an attack that does not mean everyone should go and tether their dog but it does mean that if we are talking aggression/safety issue it doesn't seem too concerning.
Do you have a link to the article of the attack? I hate hearing of Pit attacks but I do try to stay on the up and up with dog attacks, any breed.
No I'm not betting the dog is exceptional bred or anything. I asked for the dogs bloodlines and received no reply. People friendliness is one of the biggest things bred in them, with time we can see it deteriorating but using the attacks by chained Pit Bulls we still see it is a very small percent of chained Pit Bulls showing atypical temperament and a very small percent of Pit Bulls period.
I did say it is
right to tell them the risk. They need to know everything involved, especially the bad stuff. I hope you can understand with the especially Pit Bulls part why I did reply the way I did. Please don't take it that I was saying you shouldn't mention it at all.
Pit Bulls for the most part survived by their human friendliness, bite inhibition, ect. Bred into them, most were left tied but could not become human aggressive or would be culled, they would have to be vetted after a match without biting out of fear/pain, they have to not turn and bite their handler (who might be a stranger) when fighting being a gripping breed they are not likely to let go for any reason, but once broken apart the dog still had to be taken back to their corner and released, some dogs will bite their owner if they want to attack something else (think like redirected aggression) Pit Bulls lay a tooth on the handler. Most are loyal to people but not their owner, it varies from dog to dog but many do not have a problem going from one owner to the next due to their history. I love my dogs to death but I know many would glady live with a stranger and be quite happy and affectionate. I got a 4yr old female who ran and jumped in my arms, licked my face, like she knew me forever. She is still so affectionate with me but I know if someone else were to come take her she would act the same way to them (does with guest) she has no loyalty to me but a love of attention and humans. As long as you will even look at her she is happy, tail wagging. So by selective breeding and neseccity that is how the temperament came to be. We see this still in a lot of byb dogs and rescues from poor background. Of course we are starting to see the bad temperament dogs since the 80s on a rise even more now. I certainly think you are wise to caution them, the dog could grow up to have aggression problems. His Pit has been tied out for most its life already though and I'm assuming the breeders other dogs were (maybe not though?) so he had a chance to see what their temperaments were like. Hopefully they were friendly and good and his will be to. I would hate to hear of the dog biting someone. I think they have a lot more to learn about dogs and really should research about this breed.
Yes I know not all Pit Bulls live up to the breeds correct temperament but fortunately enough that most probably still do, the bad ones get the biggest focus.