petsmart encounter (long sorry)

well as DPU stated, peoples home situations are constantly changing. this is why i get annoyed about the useless picky-ness of screening homes - one time. someone might go out and fall madly in love with a cute little fur ball, take it home and live happily ever next week when their job suddenly decides to downsize and lays them off. then their wife is unhappy and calls for divorce, etc etc bla bla .... suddenly the only friend they have left is this little fur ball, but they no longer have the resources to care for it, but they still love their only friend.
what to do? we can say "give it back to the breeder/shelter/rescue" but..... could any of you do that with your own fur babes?

 
Dumdog.. I agree with so much that you have said on this thread and I want to say you have given some excellent suggestions, insight and advice.
 
I DO however feel the need to comment on the above statements you made.  
 
Working with rescue I do understand the need for “pickiness” with adoptions.  The effort, care, love and financial costs that go into rescuing and placing a dog are astronomical in nature.  These people really care about these animals and want to assure that they DO find the best possible homes and that they greatly reduce the chances of these dogs bouncing back. Every time a dog is bounced back you reduce the likelihood of the dog finding a forever home and cause undue stress to the animal. This is why every single ones of my greyhounds have been “multiple bouncebacks” and the “unadoptables” that have very little if any chance at finding a forever home.   
 
NOW.. that all said, I do believe that some agencies go overboard. The rescue I am involved with has been accused of being “not picky enough” by other greyhound rescues. I don#%92t know this for sure, but I believe that their return rate is probably higher than the other local greyhound rescues.. BUT they also place more dogs and save more lives than most of the others as well.
 
It is really a tough balance and as a placement rep for this group it is really difficult to be in the spot of “deciding” what dogs should go to what homes.    
 
As for your comment about “could any of us give back our furbabies”.. the answer for the majority of us on this board is likely a big “NO”.. but we are NOT representative of the general dog owning population either.  It is insane the reasons people give when surrendering a dog back to the rescue… and gives a good understanding to the “pickiness” of adoption groups.
 
Just my [sm=2cents.gif]
 
Bradley- I am sorry you and DW had to go through this. Don't beat yourself up over the "should have said's..."   I would have been most  shocked in this situation too and probably unsure of how I should handle it as well.                   
 

that is my annoyance with the pickyness. i know you cant save everyone. sometimes a dog's personality just CANT be altered enough to make him suitable for any home.
even when people are aware of certain vices, they are still shocked when they finally get to see the ugly side of their new pet..... thats like someone adopting a "digger" .... sure they knew he dug holes, but they werent prepared for WWI reinactments in their back yard... or if they bring home a barker.. "When does he stop to take a breath!?"
Kaydee is turning into a barker because of her condition - something for the health forum - it's driving my husband nuts because its a constant barkbarkbarkbarkbarkbark for several minutes.... a lot of people cant handle that.
barkers have never bothered me though.. i used to live with a red bone coonhound.

but as for over-screening, or not screening enough.... one must wonder what is best? playing the odds and hoping for the best or keeping the dog "on the shelf" until the perfect home comes along?

you know... the more i think about it, the more i'm convinced that society has gone way off the deep end.
You get one extreme or the other, and rarely a happy in between... people either love, cherrish, and worship their dogs, buying t-bone steaks, and bottled water for them, or they chain them outside and forget they exist until it dies and stinks up the neighbourhood... or until they just decide to give it to a shelter.
i like to think i'm in the grey area. i love my dogs and they are family, but if i cant eat prime rib and lamb chops, why should they? [] but then again... i dont feed them crap either. if i cant eat it, then they probably shouldnt either - and i am a health nut when it comes to food..

one thing that may be a wee bit off topic, but not really, is the people who have private rescues... i see it occasionally on animal cops..where someone has a bazillion dogs and cats and other critters in cages, kennels, and corrals. they arent hording the animals, but they kinda are. they are doing exactly what an animal shelter would do but without the killing part.
my step mom told me about one woman she met at her job (doctor's office) that had a similar practice. she would go to shelters and adopt as many animals as she could and bring them home to her own kennels. she had a special out building for the cats, and kenneled areas for the dogs. i wont tell the whole story because it was kinda sad, but it seems that people who do this work independantly often cant keep up with the cleaning and care. the animals end up living in filth or wasting their lives away behind bars with no interactions at all.

ORIGINAL: DumDog

but as for over-screening, or not screening enough.... one must wonder what is best? playing the odds and hoping for the best or keeping the dog "on the shelf" until the perfect home comes along?

 
I can only tell you that nearly every dog that I placed, the adoption stuck.  I say nearly because one family wanted to adopted one of my dogs but the dad had an allergic reaction.  He knew he was allergic but felt he had overcame it.  He spent a lot of time with the dog and got no reaction.  When the family took possession of the dog, the dad had a reaction during the night and had to leave the house.  Please note, he left the house and the dog stayed.  I went to pick up the dog and he went to the doc and got medication.  He then wanted to try it again but the same thing happened.  Again, he left the house and the dog stayed.  That was my only returned dog.
 
Whatever I am doing, I am doing it right.  And I am not going to change my ways.  I thinks its because I observe, listen, and spent time with family.  I have said no to some families but as it always seems to turn out, there are multiple families interested in the dog.  That is the best place to be.

but as for over-screening, or not screening enough.... one must wonder what is best? playing the odds and hoping for the best or keeping the dog "on the shelf" until the perfect home comes along?

 
This is the "balance game" you play and in the end the adoption folks just want the best for each and every animal they "save".  The bond you feel to these animals is often quite strong in a very short period of time. Dumdog- It would be like you having to decide what home you were going to place your cat with if something happened that didn't allow you to keep the animal.  What criteria would you use and how particular would you be??  It is a tough spot to be in and I don't envy anyone trying to do rescue.
 
as for people who have "private rescues".. not all of them are bad. You definatly DO hear horror stories, but 15 years ago the folks that own the grey rescue I work with started this out of their home. It now is its own 501C3.. but it is STILL run out of their home. It is an incredible undertaking and is all about their love for the animals.  Unfortuantely there are situations where folks lose sight over what is best and take on more than they can... but it is a hell of a job and you lose all independence in your life when you take things like this on. It is "all consuming".

ORIGINAL: jjsmom06

.. but it is a hell of a job and you lose all independence in your life when you take things like this on. It is "all consuming".

 
I hope that the author of the quote did not intend the comment to be negative.  For me it is an absolutely joy to be part of rescuing dogs, inviting the dog into my home, rehabbing, training, and placing.  It is an interest that I share with my friends and it seems every day I make a new one.  Rescue people shows me the good in people.  I work full time, have my own dogs, have fosters, put on foster dog shows, review applications, interview, and do home visits.  I also have a large family and close friends that get weekly visits.  It is so nice that I can meld it all together so that I "don't loose all independence".  Its not "all consuming", it is just living life. 

ORIGINAL: DPU

Its not "all consuming", it is just living life. 

 
I happen to agree with this.  There are a lot of people here who have deticated themselves to "The Cause" and have multiple dogs and do adoption events and still manage to have time for families and whatnot.
 
Having said that, that level of commitment is a total LIFESTYLE choice.  For example, the people with 10 dogs or even 6 dogs... when was the last time you went on a vacation?  I realize that you may not want or need a vacation, but my point is that this level of commitment to the fostering lifestyle means that you opt to sacrifice other things that many people take for granted.  Dogs are not like children- often they aren't permitted in places that we may want to go.
 
I guess what I'm trying to say is that everyone has a different list of things that they take for granted, and it's not for any of us to judge what is on anyone else's list.
 
The BYB situation and overpopulation is, in my opinion, a very complicated issue, as illustrated by Glenmar's post which told us about the BYB who actually needed a job and chose to "breed" as a means of income.  I don't support that, and I agree that I could more reasonably get behind bank robbery, but the fact remains that bank robbery is illegal and BYB is not.  Thus, this man is in the ironic position of committing an act that while "legal" is certainly not high on the moral barometer.
 
It's one dog at a time.  I think anyone can agree with that.  Yes, we need to know our personal boundaries and limitations.  And yes, everyone's boundaries are different.  I probably would've taken the puppy, but I definitely don't fault the OP for not doing so.

Gee,,,this is interesting. Thanks for the education!   I have never been to a rescue or adoption agency on any kind of scale,,,large, small, private or funded.   I did talk to a lady that runs a Dane rescue not far away, thats it. I give all of you guys so much credit for what you do. For me,,,it breaks my heart to see animals looking for homes. As DD said, "you can't save them all."
As an outsider looking in.... I see what DD is saying.  I do understand that the rescue people put so much time and love into it. DPU.. you amaze me. BUT,,, the lady at PS.... if she walked around and found someone who fell in love with that dog... isn't it better than to drop it off at a rescue where there are so many more... doesn't it have a better chance at life if someone takes it?  I kind of asked this in my last post,,,no one touched on it.  Isn't there a difference between taking a dog to a rescue or humane society...than someone who is fostering and waiting for the perfect person to take their pet?

I hope that the author of the quote did not intend the comment to be negative.

The “author” as you call me David, did NOT intend this comment as a negative one. In case you haven#%92t noticed from my posts on this thread.. I hold the people that run the rescue I volunteer with in the HIGHEST regard possible. You and I are on the same side of the argument here when it comes to rescue people[], so you are seriously misunderstanding my meaning.

  Allow me to restate my meaning… “people involved in private rescue often give up some independence and some “spontaneity” because they have chosen to give so much of themselves to helping animals in need.”     I am glad that you can still have so much independence and have time for family and friends David. Perhaps the couple I volunteer for have a different situation that you and it was THEIR situation I was referring to. At any given time they have 18-20 dogs in the kennel awaiting adoption and an additional 14 in their home as their “pets”. These are the “unadoptables” often with severe medical issues and are older.  They cannot leave their home unattended even to go have dinner out or visit with friends and family. To do so requires that they bring in a volunteer that they trust to watch the kennel and dogs in their home.  They never vacation, they don#%92t dine out or go visit friends.  They miss seeing their grandkids that live a few states away grow up, but they GLADLY sacrifice that for the love of the wonderful animals they are saving. They are truly incredible people and lead a very full and fulfilling life.. just not a life that many would chose to live. When you become involved in rescue to the level they are you DO indeed sacrifice and this was my only point. I was actually defending those that do rescue…

I hope my point is more clear now.          

ORIGINAL: badrap
It's one dog at a time.  I think anyone can agree with that.  Yes, we need to know our personal boundaries and limitations.  And yes, everyone's boundaries are different.  I probably would've taken the puppy, but I definitely don't fault the OP for not doing so.

And when you walk 10 feet and there is another free puppy, another 10 feet and another puppy, etc.  You will reach a capacity.  I am better equipped than most to handle and accept rescues.  If Cyclefiend2000 learned anything from this experience is that next time he will be prepared.  Preparedness in rescue is key.  I know my personal capacity but my capacity gets extended with all the contacts I have made.  My strongest is an email network.  When I need help or I have a special dog that needs rescuing, I know 10 people that will immediately respond to my email and will actually help, not give support or excuses, but do something.  With each dog I get I contact breed rescues and ask questions and get care instructions.  I know a lot of rescues and know they are at capacity but from the relationships that I have developed, I know they would take a dog if I asked.  I don't take advantage of these relationships and I they don't take advantage of me.  I attend a lot of dog events in my area and at these events there are not only rescue groups but all sorts of dog merchants and dog services.  I talk to people that is what I am good at.  It has taken me years to set up my home to be foster friendly.  A nice comfy secure place for any dog. 

So saying that you will take in the puppy is a grand gesture.  For the good of your home, family, and the dog, plan and be prepared.

ORIGINAL: DPU


And when you walk 10 feet and there is another free puppy, another 10 feet and another puppy, etc.  You will reach a capacity. 

 
This is a sad, and very valid assessment of the current climate regarding the overpopulation problem.
 
And yes, as I said, I know my limits, and I am prepared to push them, but I can only push so far.  In this particular instance, in this particular moment, I can accept this puppy.  But after I accept this puppy, I cannot accept the next one until the first one finds a home.  What I am prepared to do is contact other people I know and see what options are available.  There will obviously reach a point at which I have done all I am capable of, and can do no more.
 
You know what?  I wish we didn't even have to have this conversation.  It's just so sad.

ORIGINAL: jjsmom06

 hey are truly incredible people and lead a very full and fulfilling life.. just not a life that many would chose to live.

 
Ok Jjsmom06, I try not to personalized my post and then again I never know at any given time if you are mad at me from another post.  Whoops, I personalized.
 
One question.  Does the couple ever use the word sacrifice?  That is not a word in my vocabulary as it pertains to dog rescues.  It is truly a joy and very rewarding for me.  So many positive aspects.

ORIGINAL: dyan

BUT,,, the lady at PS.... if she walked around and found someone who fell in love with that dog... isn't it better than to drop it off at a rescue where there are so many more... doesn't it have a better chance at life if someone takes it?  I kind of asked this in my last post,,,no one touched on it.  Isn't there a difference between taking a dog to a rescue or humane society...than someone who is fostering and waiting for the perfect person to take their pet?

 
Dyan, I was hoping that someone who runs a shelter facility or works in one would start the dialogue.  They would be more familiar with the shelter's operations.
 
Regarding your questions on whether it would be better for the puppy to go to a PS customer versus a shelter.  It would be better for the dog to go to the PS customer.  The dog is no danger being with the lady that breed the puppy.  The dog is no danger being with the PS customer.  The puppy is at risk going to a shelter.  Public shelters have to take dogs.  Private shelters usually don't accept owner surrendered dogs and pull their dogs from municipal shelters and public shelters.

At the Petco I go to, employees will run off people in the parking lots selling dogs. Often, these BYBs will try it on a Saturday, during the animal shelter's mobile adoption thing.

ORIGINAL: badrap

The BYB situation and overpopulation is, in my opinion, a very complicated issue, as illustrated by Glenmar's post which told us about the BYB who actually needed a job and chose to "breed" as a means of income.  I don't support that, and I agree that I could more reasonably get behind bank robbery, but the fact remains that bank robbery is illegal and BYB is not.  Thus, this man is in the ironic position of committing an act that while "legal" is certainly not high on the moral barometer.

 
Badrap, if you go back and reread the exchange between Glenmar and myself, my post was crafted to demonostrate how to approach the situation.  Create a spark, get the person attentions, apply reasoning, get more information, and then advise.  Glenmar turned around so it turned out to be a live demonostration.  Thanks Glenmar.

Ok Jjsmom06, I try not to personalized my post and then again I never know at any given time if you are mad at me from another post. Whoops, I personalized.

I am sorry that you feel this way but it is a problem that you will have to figure out how to deal with. What gets me is that without me spelling out "I totally am on your side here David..." that you can't see that we are on the same page with a lot of issues, including this one dealing with folks involved in rescue. I feel like you are always contrary to things I have to say and I must admit that it is quite tiresome and I wonder why I even bother to respond to you. I guess because it is frustrating to have my intentions misunderstood. I never thought I was that poor of a communicator until very recently.. but apparently I am.  I look at each post as a separate entity… so I can disagree with you on a certain thread and then totally be with you on another and it has nothing to do with me caring over “feelings” from another thread David. Despite the fact that you and I don#%92t agree on a great many things, there is actually a lot we DO see eye to eye on.

  Sorry to go off topic, but I felt I the need to explain myself here since you brought it up.

  As for your question …YES.. they have specifically used the word sacrifice with me as in “I sacrifice seeing my grandkids more than once every few years because this cause and my love for the dogs we save is so strong” 

  Now I see where you are going with this.. you believe that by them saying “sacrifice” that they somehow don#%92t LOVE what they do.. trust me.. if they didn#%92t love it then they wouldn#%92t still be doing it 15 years later. They wouldn#%92t be up at 2 am for kennel turnouts every night and they wouldn#%92t have worked full time jobs and hired others to come in and help during the day so they could PERSONALLY FINACIALLY support their efforts. There are 4 other grey rescues locally so it isn#%92t like they are the only ones in the area. They do it because they enjoy it and it is rewarding.. but for them, it DOES mean sacrifice in other areas of their life and they just accept that. But also know that each one of us sacrifices in life and it doesn#%92t necessarily equate with unhappiness...

  My entire point to the whole ‘losing independence and sacrifice” thing was in response to Dumdogs post about “private rescue efforts” and how horrible some of the situations are. I wanted to be sure to say that while there are “some” unfortunate situations,  that not all people doing private rescue have such circumstances. I wanted to make sure that folks knew that for people involved in private rescue.. that there is a lot they perhaps do give up for love of the animals.. they are often very selfless people.