petsmart encounter (long sorry)

dumdog... i see what you are getting at, and i did state in my initial post that some things were assumed by me and my wife. the assumptions were based on a short conversation and a first impression. were they right? i dunno.

i agree that she is making an effort to find homes rather than dump the pups or worse. i just have a problem with her saying she found a good home by randomly confronting people in a store. she found a home. good or bad? again i dunno.

i dont agree with mandatory spay neuter laws either, but i believe all responsible pet owner would spay/neuter their mixed breed dog. thus eliminating the opportunity "oops litter". did she own both parents? i dont know, but she seemed to know what mix the father was. so i assumed she either owned the dog or knows the owner.

should i have suggested that she spay the mother? yes and i feel bad that i didnt.

i sincerely hope all the pups do find good homes, and i hope she will take measures to assure that she doesnt have another mixed breed litter.

i am planning to visit petsmart and petco again this coming weekend. i hope i see the lady again so i can suggest she spay mother. and if she has another whimpering pup with her i may not be able to resist next time.

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000
 and if she has another whimpering pup with her i may not be able to resist next time.

 
you're so cute[]  and your heart is in the right place- that's for sure!
 
i guess the core issue here is it's a real shame that this happened AT ALL.....  i dream of a utopia where we may never have to discuss this again...[sm=violinplay4.gif]

Yikes...this is a toughy.  But I agree with DumDog----kind of.  I do think we are assuming a lot of things. And I also agree that I would rather see her trying to find a home than just dump the pup.   So many people do that, drop them off, tie them to something...whatever. This lady was really trying to find a home.... if she did it at Petco earlier...she is spending a lot of time.  NOT that it was the right way.... but she was trying at least.
I guess I maybe better go back and read the original post.  She was SELLING or GIVING?  I got the idea she was giving,,, just getting rid of a cute puppy.
Of course your right.... who would just give this puppy away to a stranger??   But how many times have I seen a few kids and a litter of pups or kittens in a wagon in front of a place like Kmart.... trying to find homes for them?  Kind of the same thing...only this lady was going a step further.
I would have been upset also...I must say. I might have said something a little sarcastic to her...I don't know what at the moment. And of wishing you did or could have taken the cute puppy doesn't help.   I won't look at puppies in a pet store...I have a hard time looking at the kitties in PetSmart. The whole thing would have broken my heart too!

It's so uncomfortable when you really want to say something to someone but don't want to cause a arguement or insult the other person.  FWIW, I would of probably done the same thing.  And, maybe, maybe I would of suggested she take them to a shelter or SPCA or something.  But, some people no matter what you say it's not going to matter.  She probably doesn't take good care of the mother, she's probably outside and they probably don't have the money to spay her.  (Assumptions, yes, but this is usually the case and most responsible dog owners aren't running around a store giving pups away)

I just also wanted to say that even though you feel sorry for the puppy you did the right thing not taking it.  I almost get to a point where I get upset with the person "selling" the dog.  Now, it's your responsiblity to clean up her mess???  And, they lay on the fact that yeah, you will have trouble leaving the dog.
 
 And, my experience with Willow has been health and behavior issues.  And, she's a nervous dog.  A good dog, for me.  But, not the kind of dog that would do well in any situation.  And, that's a big deal and effects your life everyday.  Example-can't have a pet sitter, can't take dog to classes, can't go away, can't play with other dogs, can't take her to family gatherings, the list goes on. 

the problem with sarcasm in a situation like that would only have a bitter negative out come. if she encounters too many sarcastic people then she might just dump the pups in the pound after all.
what i would like to see is someone actually help her..... tell her "What's your # or email? i'll ask around and see if i know anyone that can take care of a puppy"
thats kinda what i did when i got the kitten..... my husband almost bit my head off, but i told him i refused to let another go to the pound. i would find it a home. promised.... well.... the home turned out to be ours... heh, sneaky yes. but this cat took to our son... which is weird for a kitten and 9 month old baby boy.... you would expect a kid that young to pull ears or poke out eyes, or kittens to scratch and bite... but no.... they adored each other from the start.
if things hadnt turned out so rosey, yes i would have continued to find this kitten a home. i've done rescue and fostering before and had nothing but good luck, so i had faith - my husband however says i tricked him lol
would i have taken that puppy, you betcha!! would have said the same thing to my hubby all over again....

the problem with sarcasm in a situation like that would only have a bitter negative out come.

i agree.... sarcasm would have been the wrong approach.

as far as not being able to afford a spay/neuter... there is a group in our area that offers free or low cost spay/neuter. i see one of their volunteers at that petsmart a lot (she has a cling-on or sticker for the group on her car). i think she volunteers with the group that has the cats in our petsmart. i wish she had been there. maybe she could have offered the lady some information that i failed to mention.

the problem with sarcasm in a situation like that would only have a bitter negative out come.

 
I agree 1000%. That was not a suggestion...that was a comment... I know me, I might have said something I wish I hadn't! YOU did the right thing.

While yes, we are making assumptions, it seems to me that all this group is doing is expressing our outrage and indignation withing the confines of the forum.  I kind of think thats ok.
 
Outside the PetSmart where DS works on weekends it is a regular thing to see a guy in his pickup truck selling Pit pups, or pit mixes....guess we know how responsible HE is!  Am I assuming?  Yep.  Being judgemental?  You betcha.  But, the LOGICAL conclusion is that this guy is using his dogs fertility as a source of income.  He is there on a VERY regular basis.  I got said man hauled away by the cops one time when he threatened me for speaking the truth........but he still comes back.
 
Like with dogs, people do what works for them.....evidently the PetSmart/Wally World parking lot has been quite the successful venue for this jerk.  And, yep, I can say he's a jerk because I had an unpleasant encounter with him.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Like with dogs, people do what works for them.....evidently the PetSmart/Wally World parking lot has been quite the successful venue for this jerk.  And, yep, I can say he's a jerk because I had an unpleasant encounter with him.

 
Everyone is judgmental but that doesn't mean one has to voice it.  And the problem with the above quote is that people don't recognize that it is not working for them.  Having a stalmate "jerk" standoff is pointless.  The man continues to sells puppies and the other party continues to be judgmental and upset.  I think it is ok to create a spark but when one has the focus then they should take advantage and attempt to turn the situation around.  If the other party feels the motivation is money then there are countless suggestions that could made to make more money.  The more information the other party has on the man, the more there is to work with.   

David, I am not suggesting that anyone be confrontational in person.  I'm saying that venting what we feel is OK here on the forum.
 
In the case of the pittie miller, I've since learned that he is an unemployed factory worker whose unemployment ran out.  The guy doesn't even have a HS education so his options are somewhat limited.  He gets work from the temp agencies but has such a nasty temper that he doesn't get kept anyplace for very long.  I saw that temper first hand.  He *almost* struck me.
 
Now I have compassion for him as a human being trying to stay afloat....the economy in my state, and especially in this part of the state sucks....but I'd have much MORE compassion if he were robbing banks than I do for someone who lives off their animals in this manner.

Okay,,so I went back and re-read the O.P. The puppy is free to a good home. She is not making money. She is looking for a home for the pups. The perfect place...at pet stores where people going there love pets.
It is the dogs first litter is the assumption that they will have more. It DOES sound like it. But maybe she didn't mean that there will be more.
In hindsight...maybe a little suggestion such as "gee, I bet your going to get them "fixed" real soon so that you don't have to go try to find homes again" might have brought out a little more information or a chance for a "nice" discussion.
I personally never miss the opportunity to bring up the millions of dogs and cats being put down all over the US because they don't have homes, to people that mention that they are not sure if they want their dogs to have puppies or not.  Seriously,, many many people out there don't think of those things...many are not aware of it. 
Just as there are so many people that don't know what BYB are, or see nothing wrong with buying a pet from the pet store, they see nothing wrong with trying to find homes for their unwanted puppies.  This lady was seriously working harder at trying to find a home for them than many people do.  At least I see it that way. I don't agree with how she is doing it...but how do you get rid of a litter of 8 puppies from a mixed breed? 
Is giving them up to a shelter really the best idea?  Isn't there so many dogs in a shelter that the chances of them finding a home much worse?  Every day I read about dogs being dropped off at shelters, many are eventually put down, correct?
I don't think the manager of a PetSmart would let anyone on the property selling dogs if they knew. I bet they can't do anything about the lady walking around looking like she is buying something... and then telling people they can have that puppy free though.

ORIGINAL: badrap

i would've been taken aback, too.  as for me, i'd have taken the puppy.  but i just do stuff like that, for better or for worse, and so far i've been able to re-home the dogs.  i have been LUCKY.

... in fact, i think this highlights one of my character flaws- i just can't walk away.  not from anything.  not from a fight, not from a stray dog... etc.

In my previous post, the message that I sent was "I don't know what I would do”.  I stuck with 3 facts.  The sound of a whiney puppy, the comment made by the lady, and the OP's question asking "what would you guys have done in this situation? 

At the one end we have Cyclefiend2000 and at the other end we have Jenhuedepohl.  They took into consideration their home situation and how much involvement they were willing to commit.  I believe the degree of involvement depends on the individual's home situation and priorities at the moment of the encounter.  Keep in mind that a person's home situation and priorities are always changing, so that means their capacity to help others also changes.  Knowing one's capacity has to be taken into consideration so you don't find yourself in the same situation as the person you are helping. 

I also believe that they will act differently the next time they encounter the same situation.  Cyclefiend2000 from his crappy feeling and Jenhuedepohl maybe from the workload and tension it created within her family.  Or, their previous experience will strengthen their degree of involvement.  For better or worst, the experience has influenced them.  For myself and because I have been doing this rescue thing for so long, I know the minimum amount of commitment I can give.  A full commit, such as seeing it through where the puppies are adopted into good homes, would depend on a number of current factors, mostly time and resources.  This is why I can say "I don't know what I would do”.

OK, here's my [sm=2cents.gif].   I don't think it would have taken me aback because I have seen and heard just about everything regarding animals...which is truly sad.  I have been volunteering at our Humane Society every Saturday for the last 14 years and the stories behind the animals are heartbreaking. 
 
We have a PERMANENT Adoption center in the Petsmart in Brockport NY.
( well until Aug 25th when they close the store....sales aren't up to corporate standards [8|]  then we need to move our adoption center. )   Our biggest problem is when people just abandon the animal thinking we can take them in....we really can't, they have to go to our main shelter on the other side of the county....which is another problem.  People can be very callous and cruel when it comes to animals.  But we are trying to educate them as best we can.
 
I personally feel the need to educate people.  I have no qualms walking up to people and discussing their dog issues anywhere, anytime, in a non-confrontational manner.  But that's just me, not everyone would do the same.
 
My take would have been to say   " oh what a cute puppy, etc. etc.  Geez, there are so many puppies looking for homes we really need to work on stopping the unwanted litters.   When are you getting Mom spayed?  Oh, no money.....have you heard about our low cost spay / neuter program? etc etc".  
 
If they got rude or mean, of course I would walk away and see the store Manager....but as many people have mentioned, you don't know what the total picture was, or what their home circumstances are.   It could have been a totally accidental thing.

well as DPU stated, peoples home situations are constantly changing. this is why i get annoyed about the useless picky-ness of screening homes - one time. someone might go out and fall madly in love with a cute little fur ball, take it home and live happily ever next week when their job suddenly decides to downsize and lays them off. then their wife is unhappy and calls for divorce, etc etc bla bla .... suddenly the only friend they have left is this little fur ball, but they no longer have the resources to care for it, but they still love their only friend.
what to do? we can say "give it back to the breeder/shelter/rescue" but..... could any of you do that with your own fur babes?
"finding a good home" is an over-rated, over-used statement. a good home may be temporary. most people that find themselves in the above situation would just ditch the dog so that they dont have a useless mouth to feed. this good home may only last until that evening when they get home and show their spouse/parent their new pet which causes a huge arguement which results in one of two things 1, animosity towards the new pet- and they know when someone doesnt like them. 2, animosity towards the person who brought it home, which can result in huge frequent arguments, shouting matches, etc. therefore exposing the pet to a stressful environment. i saw that happen first hand.. twice actually.
my cousin's sister gave her a chihuahua for her 30'th birthday. her husband was P.O.ed for weeks. he refused to talk to her, and if he did talk he was snarky, angry, resentful, and rarely kept a calm tone of voice.... two years later we found an American bulldog pup free to a good home in the paper. I wanted him for myself and was meticulously coming up with clever ways to sorta sneak him into our home. my cousin became an accessory and kept him at her home , telling her husband it was only temporary .... but she fell deeply in love with the bulldog. about that time Kaydee injured her back and was paralysed for weeks, so my cousin ended up keeping the dog longer, still telling her hubby it was temporary but still getting more and more attached. finally she asked me if she could just keep him. our goal was still the same but she had fallen in love with this dog. he was no chihuahua... i didnt have a problem with it because by this point Bo was more hers than mine. if she left the room he would get anxious for her return, if she didnt return soon enough he would get depressed. when she came back he would go nuts with excitement. But when she told her husband that Bo was staying.... more sulking, ignoring, shouting, anger. It wasnt that they didnt have money to feed or vet their dogs. they had time for them (she is a stay at home mom) and wasnt that they were unable to control their dogs. he was just mad that she brought home a dog without asking. if she had asked the answer would have been no, regardless. he has no trouble at all resisting the cuteness of puppies and kittens and ignoring the plight of over stocked shelters. he just doesnt care, but she does.
when you have two personality clashes like that... what do you do?
and please dont say "i'd divorce him" ..

anyway, if you didnt bother to read any or all of that above its cool  [] but i still say it would be nicer/easier/more productive to offer assistance to a person in this situation. maybe take one or two of the puppies on a temporary basis and help find homes or refer people to her if they are looking for a puppy, AND give her the number to a rescue agency and a s/n clinic. before i got married my new land lord didnt allow dogs of any kind, and i had a JRT, and a Dobie mix plus five rats and two mice. i went to pet smart asking them for advice and they gave me the number of small animal rescues in the area as well as their dog rescue league.
i had a hard time giving my dogs to strangers- i had high hopes of some day getting them back again - so instead i gave the terrier to a friend with a kid - they fell in love and this dog is queen bee of their house. the other lives on a 200 acre farm with kids, very much like what he was used to when i owned him. i couldnt bring him to this place now with its small back yards and all the restrictions and leashes. I am happy in the fact that i can see them when ever i want though.
when finding homes for pets, its always nicer to have someone help you instead of them badgering you over how inconsiderate you are and irresponsible. You shouldnt attack ignorant people, but try to educate them and help them do better. if you attack them then you ruin the image of rescues and fosters by making them look like a bunch of self righteous snobs.
if you want to attack someone then go after the breeders and millers. they know what they're doing and dont care. a dog or cat is an inanimate object... a coffee cup. if the coffee cup is dropped and breaks the day after it was bought.... do you think the store manager cares? no. he made a profit and that's all that matters. people who sell animals for money have the same mentality. they dont want to see if its abused, neglected, or abandoned. out of sight out of mind. they can amuse themselves with the thought that they "found good homes" for their puppies and kittens even if it is delusional.

i dont think there should be mandatory S/N but mandatory classes and licensing for wanna be breeders. Just like if you want to drive a car, carry a gun, hunt or fish. if you're out in a parking lot peddling puppies then an officer should come up and check your license and permit, just like they do for traffic violations. game wardens will go up to people fishing or seek out hunters in the woods to check theirs. its the same principle and would probably work better at controlling the population.

ORIGINAL: DumDog

well as DPU stated, peoples home situations are constantly changing. this is why i get annoyed about the useless picky-ness of screening homes - one time. someone might go out and fall madly in love with a cute little fur ball, take it home and live happily ever next week when their job suddenly decides to downsize and lays them off.

Don't be annoyed, screening homes are done in the best interest of the dog.  The message I am sending is to know your capacity and the degree of committment you are willing to take on.  When a shelter dog comes into my home, that dog is rescued and will have a very happy life from that point forward.  The dog can stay or the dog can be adopted out.  The only criteria that I use to screen adopters' homes is that it be better than mine.  For me, that is the only way I can give up the dog.

Now the mandatory S/N has come up a few times in this thread and I have strong opinions on that subject.  But that discussion is for another thread and another time.