should we take away the toys?

 I've had Ena for... three weeks now. She's older than Ari, but she just lost ALL of her front teeth and got in full adult teeth between her canines, in a week. She's a weirdo... Anyhow, she's been going through a biiiig mouthy time. She has a crinkly stuffed toy, and one that sings. Crinklies are somehow reeealllly interesting to puppies. I have shoved a toy in her mouth so many times, in three weeks... Her new greeting is to run and grab a toy, THEN say hello to you. It's very, very cute, and it works. Keep shoving those toys in there. Keep yelping.

 Of course, the exersize and socialization will help. E is everywhere, with everybody. I'm not worried about vaccines, or diseases, as much as I'm worried about having a dog who likes people and other dogs as much as I do. Emma is... lacking in the social department. Ena is a social butterfly, and I know that if I want to keep her that way.... it's going to be work. The day I got her, I took her somewhere new. I take her somewhere different almost every day. She's been to Staples, to the bank, to dog training classes, to the beach, to the park, out to eat, etc etc.

coco used to chew on EVERYTHING including hands and ankles.

i had to remove everything i didnt want her to chew, and what i couldntm i invested  in bitter apple spray.  i would spray it on a pai of shoes and tossed it, when she went to pick it up, i said "not yours" and gave her something that was hers and praised her for chewing on that instead.  (She's chewed up countless number of shoes, tv cords, phone chargers, laptop chargers etc.)  I also sprayed some of it on my hands and ankles, and as soon as she tasted how terrible my flesh tasted, (I paired it with yelping in pain too.) she stopped immediately.  I only had to use the spray a handful of times and it took care of that.

 As for socializing her, it is VERY important I agree with the others.  Can you take her to a place that she can meet all sorts of people?  Like say a starbucks with an outdoor area? Or an outdoor mall or something?  When CoCo was a puppy, I took her to the Walk in Atlantic City, an outdoor mall/outlet type.  They had tons of sitting area so we would just sit there, and because CoCo was such an adorable puppy, TONS of people came up and loved on her....now she will follow any stranger home! lol

 She also does not bite at ALL.  Even with little kids harrassing her, she will give a small growl and get up and move away.

 HTH

jennie_c_d

Crinklies are somehow reeealllly interesting to puppies.

That's funny, babies really like crinkly stuff also. Supposedly the sound helps build neurons or something weird like that in babies? So I guess it makes sense that puppies like it too.

Gopher, I think you've gotten really great advice about the socialization stuff.. Yeah, there's always a chance that an unvaccinated pup could get parvo or something from being out and about, but it's a pretty small chance, and the chance of behavioral problems later on from a lack of socialization is much much greater...and I don't wish an unsocialized big black dog on anyone.

 We're calling in for professional help.  At this point I can't even walk in the room and she bites me in my butt, my shirt or my pants.  I've tried repeatedly to put a toy in her mouth, and this does not work.  My SO and I will be socializing her more (she loves meeting new people) and taking her to puppy classes and we're walking her now. I tried to take her for a walk this morning, and she went after my but biting.  I try to ignore and wait till she stops so I can praise her for being calm, but she just bites harder.  I cannot ignore that type of behavior it's too dangerous. 

But to be honest I'm so frustrated and upset right now it's a struggle to try to interact with her, because I'm quite frankly just afraid I'm going to get bit (she's definately not doing this out of aggression - I'm not afraid of her per say, but just afraid that no matter what I do or try I'll be bitten regardless).  I feel like I'm doing everything wrong and that there is NOTHING I or my SO can do right. 

I want to make this work, but I've been crying the last two nights. 

We're obviously doing everything wrong over here...it's at the point where Ari is frustrated, we're frustrated - and we try to initiate play sessions and she wants nothing to do with us.  There's no bond between any of us right now.  And that hurts the most.
 

Also I should say I've tried just ignoring the behavior she does in liueu of putting a toy in her mouth in the off chance she was associating biting humans = toys (though we gave a firm but gentle uh uh and when she took the toy praised and played).  But that doesn't work either.  

I mean seriously, this is beyond frustrating and upsetting.  I try to greet each and every interaction with her positively, I do....but getting repetedly bit (especailly when I wasn't even interacting with her at that point) is just depressing me.  

So obviously we are both idiots who have tried to implement positive dog training, we researched for over 2 years regarding dogs and raising puppies in particular followed the guidelines and just screwed up our dog. 

And more frustrating it's honestly hurts more so for me b/c she's not the first dog I've worked with.  I've had dogs before (albit the youngest we brought into the home was 6 mos).  Groomed for many years and have worked with training (again youngest dog I worked with was 4 or 5 months old).  I feel incompetant and stupid and like I've royally just screwed up our dog for life. 

My SO and agreed  we are starting over from scratch (as if we just brought her home and she knows nothing) only this time we'll be seeking professional help in and out of the home.  I believe this Saturday I saw a place that does puppy socials for 5 dollar enterance fee but I gotta check if there was an age requirement for this one - if not we'll be going to that. 
 

I truly feel for you...I was in such a similar situation.  Frustration, constant state of upset because I just couldn't get my puppy to stop being crazy mouthy.  And, I too had many past dogs...not my first rodeo as some say.  This pup was just different, plain and simple. 

With a hard tempered dog like Heidi and perhaps your Ari, a bit of negative reinforcement is needed.  I may get blasted for saying that, but I've experienced that 100% positive just doesn't get through to some hard tempered dogs.

Now, of course the issue is that you have a baby, an 11 week old "mindless pup".  I don't say that offensively, its just that pups don't "get it" sometimes when they are that young...especially the hard tempered ones.  Its a very fine line to cross.  So, its good you are bringing in a pro...he/she will help you, I have no doubt.  I wish you best of luck, and I'm here to tell you that it DOES get better.   

CoBuHe

I truly feel for you...I was in such a similar situation.  Frustration, constant state of upset because I just couldn't get my puppy to stop being crazy mouthy.  And, I too had many past dogs...not my first rodeo as some say.  This pup was just different, plain and simple. 

With a hard tempered dog like Heidi and perhaps your Ari, a bit of negative reinforcement is needed.  I may get blasted for saying that, but I've experienced that 100% positive just doesn't get through to some hard tempered dogs.

Now, of course the issue is that you have a baby, an 11 week old "mindless pup".  I don't say that offensively, its just that pups don't "get it" sometimes when they are that young...especially the hard tempered ones.  Its a very fine line to cross.  So, its good you are bringing in a pro...he/she will help you, I have no doubt.  I wish you best of luck, and I'm here to tell you that it DOES get better.   

CoBuHe - thank you.  I need support right now.  Ari and I had a nice play session, she ended it went to the door and pawed at it and sat down.  WEnt to put on my shoes she came up behind me and bit my inner thigh hard enough to cause puncture wounds.  I'm hoping to have a professional in our home tonight - whatever the cost. 
 

A few things to keep in mind,

• The primary socialization period ends at 12 weeks.
• The secondary socialiation period ends at 16 weeks.
• Puppy's Rule of Twelve - http://ahimsadogtraining.com/handouts/puppy-training-and-socialization.html

The two diseases that are the primary danger to puppies are parvo and distemper.  One can avoid distemper by avoiding sick dogs.  Parvo is the biggest danger.

Parvo can live in homes up to a year and in the soil up to two years.  It can be carried around by paws, feet, shoes, clothes, hands, etc.  A 1:10 bleach solution will kill it.  Soap and water can rinse it off, but will not kill it.

Pups desperately need socialization and they need it before they complete their puppy shots.  Play times

• in fenced yards where there has been no parvo for two years,
• on bleached floors (as in puppy play classes), and
• on concrete (but do not jog on concrete with dogs under 2-years-old)

are relatively safe.

Young pups in carriers (and kept away from unwashed hands) can go just about anywhere.  The more things they see and hear before 12-weeks the better.  Google for "pet strollers".  Even Target and Walmart carry them.

They also need to experience as many surfaces as possible.  Many of those can be brought into the home or yard - types of rugs, types of door mats, gravel, grates (as in grates like those that might be found in sidewalks), etc.

They can go through opened cardboard boxes, up and down slopes (created with hinged boards), eat in the bathtub, etc.

Working hard on sights, sounds, and experiences will help to wear out a pup and will decrease the number of things that may scare him/her later in life.  Don't forget things like uniforms, Halloween costumes, men's turbins, and beards.

NOTE:  Open areas where one might find wild canines can have parvo in the soil.

so this is your first young puppy? ok, let me assure you that puppies bite.. They do. It's normal- they are trying to play with you. The first rule of puppy raising is you have to be PROACTIVE. Any time the puppy does anything even remotely good, such as not-chew-on-the-couch, YOU initiate some kind of fun interaction with the puppy. You don't wait for the puppy to do bad-things like bite your butt, you have to be PROACTIVE. The second rule of puppy raising is 100% attention on puppy or puppy is confined. And I mean 100%, none of this watch-TV and watch-puppy. You can't let the puppy practice bad habits at this stage.

Walking puppies on leash is not a good idea by the way. Long walks bad, many short play sessions good. Leash-walking of young puppies should be reserved for going to socialization opportunities. The dog's a retriever, go play fetch.

 Mudpuppy all I did was walk her down to a field and brought a toy - wasn't a log walk nor did we really do much walking.  I've given her a bath, which she's really enjoyed and we've had people come in to the house.  She likes car rides A LOT, so if I cannot get a professional in the home today I'm thinking of taking her for a ride to a petstore for a quick in and out visit and to get some more variety of chew toys for her that maybe she'll like better than the ones she had. 

What bothers me is I walk in the room and she charges and bites.  Redirecting with a toy DOES NOT WORK.  I cannot stress that enough.
 

We have many little play sessions with her throughout the day, but it's to the point I'm afraid to play with her, afraid to walk in the house b/c inevitably she bites me.  However, when we initiate play 3 out of 4 times she simply ignores us. 

At this point, I need a professional to watch me and my SO interact with her and find out what we are missing.  I appreciate the advice here, I really do,  but I don't think I am good at accurately conveying in words the scenerios we experience at home.  For starters we don't watch TV at home and leave the dog to fend for herself.  We're not big TV watchers anyway to begin with.  What we want is to come home to a dog we interact with, but the biting has escalated. 

I realize she is teething, badly teething, but when you try toys, you try redirection and it doesn't work and I CANNOT LET HER BITE ANYMORE.  Her bites are getting MUCH harder.  Which may be due to teething, but I give her bones (raw meaty ones) now, plus chew toys and we introduced a frozen washcloth.  NONE of this is stopping the biting.  I have gotten to the point of trying to gently close her muzzle saying Uh uh/no and then walking away - this only causes her to charge after me and bite my crotch, butt and inner leg. 

This is my first young puppy, personally, but not the first I have worked with. 
 

the_gopher

I'm thinking of taking her for a ride to a petstore for a quick in and out visit and to get some more variety of chew toys for her that maybe she'll like better than the ones she had.

Do not put her on the petstore floor!  Put a towel (to make it comfortable) in a shopping cart and put her in the cart.

 That's what I was planning on :) 

the_gopher

That's what I was planning on :) 

Oh, good!!     

I have seen so many very young puppies on the floor at PetSmart and it just makes me cringe.  The owners don't know the health of the other dogs in the store or how well the floors/displays are cleaned. 

I don't have any advice for you and it sounds like you are way beyond me in knowing what to try.

 My thoughts are with you as you struggle with this - I know it is really hard for you and your SO.  Within a very short time this will be resolved and you will have a wonderful Ari with a fantastic bond.

All I'm saying is - hang in there.

janet_rose

the_gopher

That's what I was planning on :) 

Oh, good!!     

I have seen so many very young puppies on the floor at PetSmart and it just makes me cringe.  The owners don't know the health of the other dogs in the store or how well the floors/displays are cleaned. 

Janet I used to work for Petsmart in the grooming dept. I would see the puppies myself and doubly cringe and if I could get a carriage for them and let them know it's not sanitary!  The Petsmart I worked for was kept really clean, but accidents happen, the floor space is HUGE so things can get missed or not cleaned as well.  But I think I a little shopping trip with Ari so people can come and see and pat her would be good.  I talked with a trainer who spent at no charge about 30 minutes on the phone with me with something new to try and then demands we call her back in a week to see if it helps.  She was really sweet and kind to do this.  She also validated that turning away from her is not appropiate due to her thinking it's a game.  But I will be giving a sharp STOP NO BITE firmly walking out of the room, waiting a minute, returning tossing a toy and saying in a happy voice "Yours" but NOT playing with her like I have been after I leave to see if this helps.  

This trainer doesn't do house calls - but I have another who emailed me back and wants to meet us at a nearby humane society to talk (after she comes back from a trip) and she does do housecalls and would be more than willing to observe our interactions together and give us professional guidence w/in our home.  She has a different approach, she's telling me I should keep my hands on her, still hands, till she calms down and directed me to a book/dvd to get called Get Connected by Brenda ALoff.  So I am a bit confused if I should go with the STOP NO BITE, or keep my hands on her till she calm.  Maybe I'll try the first to begin with, because I'm too anxious and upset right now to be any sort of calming influence?!  She too also validated that turning away from Ari isn't working with her, b/c for her it's a game. 

I'm so confused, but I'm not giving up by far.  I know things will get better, it's just hard to see that light at the end of the tunnel right now is all.