should we take away the toys?

you need to ignore your vet and get her outside for exercise and more importantly for socialization. What does she have to chew on? As for the biting, loudly, and I mean loudly, screaming in pain and freezing for thirty seconds works far better than walking out of the room or shoving a toy in her mouth- that's sort of rewarding her for biting you. What works even better is finding some other puppies for the puppy to play with. If you watch dogs playing, if one bites too hard the bittee yelps loudly and briefly stops playing.

the_gopher

until she is fully vaccinated or I'd have her in puppy socialization classes and take her for little walks.  

Where are you in NH? At the NHSPCA in Stratham they have puppy play time on Saturday mornings at 9 am. The room is cleaned the night before and only pups that are a few months old can go to it---so they all have about the same level of immunization or lack therof.  I know there is always a risk that another pup could be carrying something, but with this set-up you are entering a clean room to start with and no older dogs. It is a drop in class so you can just show up if you want to. http://www.nhspca.org/training/index.html#PupSocialize

Just a thought...

 I talked with the SO today and he does NOT want to take her anywhere till she is fully vaccinated.  I'll try talking with him again regarding this.  I know a somewhat nearby Petco does puppy socialization on Saturdays and I'm going to call for more info on that.  I'm trying to track down trainers in the area or facilities that do puppy classes but they are never in when I call - they all hold weird hours gah!  Or maybe I'm just having a run of bad luck there.

And yes I do scream actually pretty loudly on occasion, and it's not even on purpose those teeth hurt, but I will stop distracting her with a toy - I may very well be unintentionally rewarding her.  I hadn't thought of that in that light. 

I know we'll get there - I keep reminding myself that when I'm feeling frustrated.  We had a nice mini training session this morning.  And again this morning she signaled she needed to go out and did her business right away, so I keep looking at those positives knowing we will grow upon them.   

you might want to show your SO some info about how it is MUCH MORE important to get puppies socialized and trained than it is to get them vaccinated. You have a limited window of time or the pup will never act normally. Many more dogs die from behavioral problems/lack of socialization than ever die from infectious diseases.

Oh, and the biting doesn't go away overnight, it will just gradually get better so hang in there.

I plan on doing just that tonight mudpuppy.  I'm also going to direct him to this thread to read and various other threads around here regarding socialization.  I think Ari will benefit tremendously from puppy socialization (we have been introducing her to new people whenever we can - and my SO has invited any of his staff over to our house whenever we are home of course to come by for a visit with the puppy).  Plus, I think being able to play with other dogs will tire her out better than we seem to be able to.  A tired pup is a happy pup, and when she is tired out from play her behavior is SOOOO much better.  

Wish me luck on making my case with the SO! 

If he really, really won't relent, then I'd invest in one of those doggy backpacks.  I think you can pick one up for about $30 and though they are meant for small breeds, they will hold a puppy for the crucial period.  She's unquestionably fine out and about if her paws don't touch the ground.  Carry her everywhere you go and encourage people to meet the cute little puppy.  In terms of playing with other dogs though, which is necessary, I would definitely try to convince him that a group meant for not-yet-fully-vaccinated puppies really is crucial. 

Just some random thoughts I had and some may not be appropriate, but here they are. You might try getting some Bitter Apple and spray your hands with it. The nasty taste might be enough of a deterrent that it becomes associated with all biting (even the crotch). Even at 2 y.o. when we rescued Sassy, she was a biter but her thing was ankles. She'd come up behind you as you walked and grab your ankle. The only way I found to break her of that was to stop, call her to me and do some exercises - sit, down, sit, etc. and she obviously didn't enjoy that much, so she stopped completely.

I'm also thinking that a HUGE amount of the problems you're having are related to the lack of exercise. Once you're able to take Ari out for some runs or long walks, you'll see a big improvement. The energy they have is amazing and if it's not burned off it can turn into crazy, bad behavior. Hang in there. Most of us have gone thru the same things and it truly does get better.

Again you guys are all fantastic and I would hug you all for your support :)  I think excercise is definately a big thing  with her as well, so I'm hoping to find a puppy group meant for not fully vaccinated dogs and convince the SO to let us go to it.  I'm working on my reasonings to give my SO to make a convincing argument with him to relent on not takiing her for walks and bringing her around other dogs.  *fingers crossed*

Ari LOVES people and funny enough in new situations she approaches them in perfect angelic behavior and with utmost confidence.  You should have seen her ham it up for my folks who came to visit and at the vets office - I had to tell him this is not how she ALWAYS is :)

I am also going to consider the bitter apple as well.  

Bonnie was bitey too when we got her, yelping did no good at all, if anything it made her worse, I always had a little bone handy to shove in her mouth when she started it.  Now she is a good as gold, the only time she gets bitely is when she is tired right before bedtime, so then I just put her in her crate cause I know she is tired.  Also, she gets 3 good walks a day that helped really good too when I started. Good luck, it will get better.

the_gopher

 I talked with the SO today and he does NOT want to take her anywhere till she is fully vaccinated.  I'll try talking with him again regarding this.  I know a somewhat nearby Petco does puppy socialization on Saturdays and I'm going to call for more info on that.  I'm trying to track down trainers in the area or facilities that do puppy classes but they are never in when I call - they all hold weird hours gah!  Or maybe I'm just having a run of bad luck there.

You may want him to look at these two papers!

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy%20socialization.pdf 

and

http://www.dtccc.org/documents/RKAnderson-letter.pdf

Retrievers are VERY mouthy animals, they can't help it.  I think the fact that your puppy had so long to play with littermates may have made her more mouthy, it was how she played with her sibs.  You need to find her some puppies to chew on, so she will not chew on you!  Look for local training clubs who may have young puppy classes.  My Selli started classes at 10 weeks. 

the_gopher

  We'll have to get a bed for downstairs (her crate is in our room on the second floor).  I would not mind training her to get on her bed downstairs as HER place to go.  We try redirecting when she wants on the couch, she's good for about 20 seconds (we redirect with a toy) and then she's back focused on the couch. 

Where is she redirected to in the living room? Just off the couch? Does she have a "spot", blankie or anything of her own?

Also keep in mind that while training IS important the first month or two that you have a pup is for bonding, potty training and bite inhabition. Granted training is ok to work on but dont press her too hard. "watch me" is key obviously but only after she already knows her name. For example most puppies respond to you regadless of what you say because you are their whole world but that dosnt mean they know there name. Watch me is different then them responding to thier name. Have you tried stinky stinky freeze dried liver treats to grab her attention? Ooh they work like a charm! Wave it infront of her nose as you bring it up to your eye level saying her name, reward ash she makes eye contact.

Again....if I've stated any of the obvious sorry but I hope I'm not offensive by suggesting you might be asking a bit much for a young puppy who should only be worried about staying off furniture and bite inhabition.

AuroraLove

Where is she redirected to in the living room? Just off the couch? Does she have a "spot", blankie or anything of her own?

Yes, I agree that it's really important that she have a place near where you hang out of her very own. We have a doggie blanket and a big dog bed right by our couch/chair in the family room. We also have them in the bedroom and we used to have one in the office, but it wasn't getting used much, so we moved it. The other place that's okay to "go to" is our laundry room. It's tiled and cool in there, so it's become a favority place. I don't necessarily think dogs want to be on the couch as much as they want to be close to you. Our kitchen is off-limits and always has been. I just didn't want to deal with counter-surfing or tripping over dogs, and it was the easiest solution and has worked out well for us.

Wow Gopher, I sure can sympathize with your situation.  My GSD Heidi was extremely mouthy and nippy.  On top of that she is extremely hard tempered.  Saying, yelping, screaming "Ouch" didn't work on her when she was Ari's age.  I was so frustrated and covered in bruises the first few  months we had her.  Turning my back and Ignoring her didn't work...she simply followed me and nipped whatever she could reach.  At that age, I had to resort to putting her up when she behaved badly...nothing else worked.  I think back and wished I had started her in a class earlier or set up play dates so that she could have played with other puppies to learn bite inhibition naturally.

I completely agree that keeping her tired is going to help you.  Take her for 10-15 minute walks (shouldn't over do the walks at her age).  Always have an appropriate chew toy on your person so that when she comes at you to nip, say No in a firm voice and give her the toy as a redirection, then praise when she takes it.  The problem I always had is that kept her busy for about 2 minutes max.  You should also start teaching her the "leave it" command.  I use "not for you"  and Heidi completely understands what that means.  They learn that one pretty fast.

I think lessening her freedom will help.  Keep her in a playpen when you can with kongs, frozen washcloths to help her teething.

I tried the bitter apple, it worked when Heidi was harrassing the older dog, Buddy.  He wouldn't make her to stop...he just endured her tortuous nipping.  So, I sprayed his ears...she didn't like that taste at all.  It didn't cure the problem, unless I had kept it on him constantly.  And, then I worried that he would get the nasty taste inadvertantly.

It does get better, I promise.  Patience, tolerance and keeping her busy, tired and crated at times will help.  The day will come when she "gets it."

polarexpress

the_gopher

until she is fully vaccinated or I'd have her in puppy socialization classes and take her for little walks.  

Where are you in NH? At the NHSPCA in Stratham they have puppy play time on Saturday mornings at 9 am. The room is cleaned the night before and only pups that are a few months old can go to it---so they all have about the same level of immunization or lack therof.  I know there is always a risk that another pup could be carrying something, but with this set-up you are entering a clean room to start with and no older dogs. It is a drop in class so you can just show up if you want to. http://www.nhspca.org/training/index.html#PupSocialize

Just a thought...

 

Sadly Stratham is too far for us, we live in Ashland and I work in Tilton (SO works in Plymouth).  We talked again tonight and the SO had a frustrating night with her (I came home late today, buried under paperwork at work and I went to the butchers to pick up a RMB for Ari which she LOVED).  

Long story short Ari will ASAP be going to puppy socials and as soon as the next round of puppy training classes begins we are signing her up.  My SO after tonight wants to do anything and everything we can do to make this situation better.  I also got the OK to start walking her around some, but we'll stay off the designated "dog walk" area b/c Ari will seriously eat the poop...so I took her down to the fields and we worked on sit and down outdoors and leash manners (mostly no pulling and I perfer her to be on my left hand side and not zig zag in front of me tripping me up).  I don't need a perfect heel just slack on the leash is all I ask for and no cutting across my feet.

 

cakana

AuroraLove

Where is she redirected to in the living room? Just off the couch? Does she have a "spot", blankie or anything of her own?

Yes, I agree that it's really important that she have a place near where you hang out of her very own. We have a doggie blanket and a big dog bed right by our couch/chair in the family room. We also have them in the bedroom and we used to have one in the office, but it wasn't getting used much, so we moved it. The other place that's okay to "go to" is our laundry room. It's tiled and cool in there, so it's become a favority place. I don't necessarily think dogs want to be on the couch as much as they want to be close to you. Our kitchen is off-limits and always has been. I just didn't want to deal with counter-surfing or tripping over dogs, and it was the easiest solution and has worked out well for us.

She wants on the couch even when we are not on it!  I tried again to introduce a spot for her using a blanket...but she's more interested in chewing the blanket unfortunately, so I just can't justify spending money on a dog bed right now that's she's just going to destroy - unless I can find a relatively cheap one for her that I won't cry over.  Don't get me wrong finances are not really an issue - but nor do we have a lot of disposable income to buy things that will just get wrecked right away!